What's the big deal with too much Victory Malt?

[loeks]

This is my first recipe that came up with from my own noggin. Actually it's the second version of my first recipe. But I decided to use 22% Victory, despite the fact that the general consensus is that you shouldn't use more than 15%. Below is my recipe.

So I ask you fine folks out there - What's the big deal with having over 15% Victory in my grain bill?

Recipe for 2.75 gallons going into fermenter:

4 lbs. Maris Otter (58%)
1.5 lbs. Victory (22%)
.75 lbs. 60L Crystal (11%)
.5 lbs. Flaked Corn (8%)
2 oz. English Chocolate Malt (2%)

Mash at 155dF for 60min.

.3 oz. Challenger at (8.9 AA) at 60
.5 oz. Challenger at 20
.25 oz. Fuggles (5.3 AA) at 10
.25 oz. Fuggles at FO

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

"...Use in small amounts to add a touch of warmth to light ales or lagers, or use in larger amounts (up top 25%) in darker beers to bring out more of the toasted biscuit flavors. "

I think the biggest reason is because it is non-diastatic. However it is also not pre-coverted (crystalized) and must be mashed. The conservative percentages are most likely meant to not overwhelm the diastatic malts in the mash thus leaving enough enzymes for a standard mash rest to attain adequate conversion.

 

[SnakeRidge]

I think that too much Victory can overwhelm a batch so it's all you taste. You've set up a good experiment, though so brew it and see what you think

 

[loeks]

"...Use in larger amounts (up top 25%) in darker beers to bring out more of the toasted biscuit flavors. "

I didn't see that about up to 25% for darker beers. Thanks for that. I tried a sample last night after two days fermenting, and it was pretty good so far.

I think the biggest reason is because it is non-diastatic. However it is also not pre-coverted (crystalized) and must be mashed. The conservative percentages are most likely meant to not overwhelm the diastatic malts in the mash thus leaving enough enzymes for a standard mash rest to attain adequate conversion.

So the way I understand this is that Victory needs something like Pale 2-Row to be able to convert, so that's why it's not recommended in higher percentages, correct? So then, worst case is that it leaves some residual sweetness, which is what I was going for anways. Does that sound about right?

 

[loeks]

I think that too much Victory can overwhelm a batch so it's all you taste. You've set up a good experiment, though so brew it and see what you think

Thanks for the encouragement. We'll see how it turns out. So far, so good, I think.

 

[SnakeRidge]

Yeah, I wish I had more descriptors of the 'too much victory' taste. I know that I started out with about 10% in my English IPA's because I thought it was supposed to be there, but over time I've backed off quite a bit to the point that I don't use it a whole lot anymore. The only recipes that I always use it in are my Maharaja clone (not a clone at all) for about 3%, and in my California Common for about 5%.

 

[peterj]

So the way I understand this is that Victory needs something like Pale 2-Row to be able to convert, so that's why it's not recommended in higher percentages, correct? So then, worst case is that it leaves some residual sweetness, which is what I was going for anways. Does that sound about right?

No, that's not correct. If it doesn't convert then it will contribute a lot of starches to the beer which will cause haze, starch globules settling to the bottom of the bottle, and stability problems over time. But if you hit your gravities then that probably means you converted most of the starches. I would have been a little worried with only 58% Maris Otter as the base malt as I believe Maris Otter is fairly low in diastatic power.

 

[loeks]

Yeah, I wish I had more descriptors of the 'too much victory' taste. I know that I started out with about 10% in my English IPA's because I thought it was supposed to be there, but over time I've backed off quite a bit to the point that I don't use it a whole lot anymore. The only recipes that I always use it in are my Maharaja clone (not a clone at all) for about 3%, and in my California Common for about 5%.

Thanks. Maybe I'll get a good idea of the "too much Victory taste" from this experience. I know I got a good idea of the "too much torrified wheat taste" from my first try for this recipe.

 

[loeks]

No, that's not correct. If it doesn't convert then it will contribute a lot of starches to the beer which will cause haze, starch globules settling to the bottom of the bottle, and stability problems over time. But if you hit your gravities then that probably means you converted most of the starches. I would have been a little worried with only 58% Maris Otter as the base malt as I believe Maris Otter is fairly low in diastatic power.

Thanks for the info. I think I get the idea now. Brewer's Friend told me that my OG should have been 1.063 and my actual OG was 1.061, so not bad. Especially since I added some extra water that wasn't figured in when I sparged my BIAB bag. We'll see where my FG ends up.

 

[SnakeRidge]

You never know, might be just your thing

 

[loeks]

You never know, might be just your thing

Crossing my fingers that it is.

 

[loeks]

Just in case anyone is interested (and for posterity), I ended up with an infection on this batch a couple weeks ago. It looked like it was growing hair. I just dumped it a couple days ago.

Weird thing though is that it didn't smell bad. It just definitely had something growing on the top.

Anywho, I think next time I try this recipe, I'm going to swap out the Victory for Vienna. That probably makes a lot more sense.

*edit* Just did some searching in the forum, and it was pellicle, so that's kinda cool, right?

 

[KOamps]

I've never used more than 5%, tempted to use more some day because I like that stuff.

 

[BridgewaterBrewer]

Vienna makes a good beer all by itself so you won't go wrong if you swap it for Victory. Like most, I have only used Victory in small amounts so it's hard to say what too much tastes like.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[wildactbrewer]

Just in case anyone is interested (and for posterity), I ended up with an infection on this batch a couple weeks ago. It looked like it was growing hair. I just dumped it a couple days ago.

Weird thing though is that it didn't smell bad. It just definitely had something growing on the top.

Anywho, I think next time I try this recipe, I'm going to swap out the Victory for Vienna. That probably makes a lot more sense.

*edit* Just did some searching in the forum, and it was pellicle, so that's kinda cool, right?

Just as an FYI, and not to change the subject, I had this same thing happen to an IPA that I honestly brewed and forgot about for like a month. It also had the bubbles with fuzzy stuff on it. I bottled it anyway and it was one of my better beers.