What to Look for in a Grain Mill?

[FleurDeLis425]

Came across a good deal on some bulk grain and now I am looking to get a grain mill. I have been searching for the forum and found a lot of posts about "which mill is better ? Mill A or Mill B?", but I cannot find anything that really answers the following questions:

1) Is it worth investing in 2" rollers and if so, why?
2) Does a 3-roller mill provide much improvement over a 2-roller mill?
3) Is getting a stainless steel mill worth the extra money?
4) Does helical or knurled matter?

Trying to figure out what really matters when it comes to buying a mill and what is more of a gimmick.

Any insight would be appreciated.

 

[HLSheppard]

While I went through the same process (torment?) myself last month; what I found is that it's human nature for people to defend their purchase choices. I do it, too! However, based on a lot of the reading that I did - my opinion is as follows (worth exactly what you paid):

1) Not sure on that one
2) Everything I read said theoretically yes but practically no. Many people who posted had adjustment issues. Granted, many happy people are probably silent.
3) Not for me. I don't ever intend on running any grain through that is so moist it would require stainless. Plus, we're not in a super humid climate that would really benefit from this. YMMV but #2 and #3 added a lot of cost that I personally thought was unnecessary (for ME).
4) Based on what I read - helical is pretty cool but it adds a lot of expense.

I ended up going with a Barley Crusher. So far - it has worked like a champ with default gap and a drill. I got a great price over the holidays so I couldn't be happier.

Hopefully this helps a little...

 

[CajunChuck]

Ive been eyeballing the cereal killer for a flat Benjamin the last couple weeks.

 

[HLSheppard]

Ive been eyeballing the cereal killer for a flat Benjamin the last couple weeks.

That was what I had my sights on as well. I ended up getting the Barley Crusher with the 15 lb. hopper for $109.00 on sale. SOLD!!

 

[brew703]

Ive been eyeballing the cereal killer for a flat Benjamin the last couple weeks.

Received mine last week. Ran about 12 lbs through it with no problem. Only issue is the base is kinda cheap. had to sand a bit and one of the pegs used to hold the base in the bucket was through and through the base when I received it. Not a big issue as I plan on making a better base down the road.
From a mechanical standpoint, the rollers adjusted easily and help position and the crank is smooth. Have not used a drill yet but really don't feel the need to do so.

For $100 and free shipping it was worth it.

 

[Murphys_Law]

Picked up a Cereal Killer a few weeks ago for $100. I've only ran one batch through it but it worked well. The drill made it very easy. The roller adjustment is easy and the quality seems ok, at least for my limited use.

 

[brew703]

Came across a good deal on some bulk grain and now I am looking to get a grain mill. I have been searching for the forum and found a lot of posts about "which mill is better ? Mill A or Mill B?", but I cannot find anything that really answers the following questions:

1) Is it worth investing in 2" rollers and if so, why?
2) Does a 3-roller mill provide much improvement over a 2-roller mill?
3) Is getting a stainless steel mill worth the extra money?
4) Does helical or knurled matter?

Trying to figure out what really matters when it comes to buying a mill and what is more of a gimmick.

Any insight would be appreciated.

Williams Brewing has one that looks exactly like the Cereal Killer for $85.00. Might want to check it out and depending on shipping it may be cheaper than the CK. They also have a three roller model for $$170.

 

[Moose_MI]

I got the monster mill 2 roller....had it about 2 years...~250lbs of grain....happy. Don't remember what I paid but got the hopper with it. I condition grains before crush...I find this keeps husks in tact so would suggest you consider trying it to see if you also benefit from it. I just use a spray bottle of hot tap water. A couple ounces as I roll the bucket around. 20min later I mill....at least there is no dust.

 

[FleurDeLis425]

I got the monster mill 2 roller....had it about 2 years...~250lbs of grain....happy. Don't remember what I paid but got the hopper with it. I condition grains before crush...I find this keeps husks in tact so would suggest you consider trying it to see if you also benefit from it. I just use a spray bottle of hot tap water. A couple ounces as I roll the bucket around. 20min later I mill....at least there is no dust.

Do you have the SS monster mill? I's assume so or else you would have rust.

 

[Moose_MI]

Do you have the SS monster mill? I's assume so or else you would have rust.

Aah man...I have no idea..but I do not have rust...thanks for your concern!

 

[biertourist]

Great question; glad to see someone actually asking these questions.

There are certain scenarios where some of these things matter more:

• If you're going to be crushing a lot of grain, you wanted hardened rollers. If you plan to become an operating nano brewery- go with the hardened rollers, if you do large batch sizes or brew often, go with the hardened rollers.
• If you plan to wet mill or if your brewery is in a wet location, consider stainless rollers; you can get away with normal or hardened non-stainless rollers with 2% water malt conditioning, though.
• If you brew a lot of light beers or really hate husky, tanniny astringincy you want to lean towards technology that will shred the husks less: this means geared rollers (both rollers are powered and driven at the same speed, or slotted rollers, or stainless rollers so you can safely malt condition/ wet mill.)
• The bigger your brewery gets, the more important efficiency is; the standard easy gain here is 3 or 4 or even 6 roller mills for the giant guys. Fluted rollers help as does wet milling or malt conditioning. Note: Wet milling or malt conditioning helps gain efficiency because you can set the mill gap smaller without shreading the husks.

Personally the feature I'd really like to see in a mill is geared rollers; it's available in the Schmidling but they really don't have any turnkey options available. There's a mill that's becoming widely sold in the UK called the "Bulldog" -something like that that has geared rollers. I love the feature as it means that both rollers are powered and spin at the same time, which HUGELY reduces the torque/ tearing forces on the grain husk and results in more intact grain husks. -It does require a slightly more powerful motor, though.

You also need to remember that with the larger diameter, longer length mills and with 3 roller mills you will need a more powerful motor to turn them. -A battery powered drill won't power all mills.

I also think another important feature is the mechanism that locks and adjustable mill into place and ensures that it doesn't move when you don't want it to. (As Monster Mills learned from their early products.)

If you plan to brew a lot of beers with wheat, you'll want an adjustable mill, too; you really want both sides to be adjustable and again you want a design that will hold the gap you set well.


The fluted / slotted rollers are interesting, and more like professional rollers; as far as I know only the "Captain Crush" from Northern Brewer and the new MM-2Pro SL, which is a response to the Captain Crush offer the feature. They do help with shreding husks, but not as much as a gear that ensures that both rollers spin at the same speed. -See my frustration there? -The Captain Crush has some pretty terrible reviews and most of them seem to be with the non-powered roller not spinning. I just can't understand adding fluted rollers as a feature BEFORE geared rollers.

If you plan to ever power your mill with a motor; even if it's a POSSIBILITY pay the like $9 extra for a 1/2" drive shaft vs. 3/8"; so wish I would've done this.

Per Monster, hardened rollers can survive up to 10x as long as unhardened so it's not an insignificant difference...


Adam

 

[biertourist]

Aah man...I have no idea..but I do not have rust...thanks for your concern!

I malt condition every single batch and have a non-stainless Monster 2.0 with no corrosion. Malt conditioning uses only 2% water by weight of your grist, so it's honestly not much moisture. 100ml for a typical gravity range 5 gallon batch or less, 200 ml for a typical gravity range 10 gallon batch. You leave the water for 15 minutes or overnight to soak into the husk before crushing.

Some internets commenters have gotten confused by commercial "wet milling" practices and "malt conditioning" which just involves a tiny bit of water in a spray bottle for a 5 gallon bucket full of grain; with wet milling the grain is mixed in with water- it's like "under water milling" -hugely different.





Adam

 

[biertourist]

Again the sweet spot for me would be a 1.5 or 2" roller (knurled or fluted / slotted if they're the same price) with hardened rollers and a gear mechanism powering them both at the same speed; it should have a 1/2" shaft and an adjustable gap with a mechanism that ensures the gap won't wander. IMO, it should also have a turn-key hopper option that can support a large quantity of grain.


You can get a great quality, high efficiency crush that doesn't shred husks, it will last forever, you'd never have to worry about the insanely frustrating "one roller not turning" issue, and you can start off with powering it with a cordless drill and easily upgrade to a direct drive motor in the future.



For a commercial brewery the wish list changes, though.


Adam

 

[Moose_MI]

I malt condition every single batch and have a non-stainless Monster 2.0 with no corrosion. Malt conditioning uses only 2% water by weight of your grist, so it's honestly not much moisture. 100ml for a typical gravity range 5 gallon batch or less, 200 ml for a typical gravity range 10 gallon batch. You leave the water for 15 minutes or overnight to soak into the husk before crushing.

Some internets commenters have gotten confused by commercial "wet milling" practices and "malt conditioning" which just involves a tiny bit of water in a spray bottle for a 5 gallon bucket full of grain; with wet milling the grain is mixed in with water- it's like "under water milling" -hugely different.





Adam

Aaah damn....I thought maybe I had the only non-ss mill not rusting from reasonable conditioning. I feel so..so..so normal now. Well, so much for taking my mill to the hospital and letting the sick touch it to be healed. I guess ill take my potato that looks like the virgin Mary

 

[biertourist]

Aaah damn....I thought maybe I had the only non-ss mill not rusting from reasonable conditioning. I feel so..so..so normal now. Well, so much for taking my mill to the hospital and letting the sick touch it to be healed. I guess ill take my potato that looks like the virgin Mary

Or every couple months put about $0.002 worth of cooking oil on it and then wipe the excess off- cheapest "rust insurance" ever. -Use olive oil and you're adding a tiny bit of oelic acid which is a yeast nutrient necessary for yeast cell multiplication (they normally use oxygen to produce it themselves but will use it if it's available in solution directly)-added bonus!

After looking at the BEAUTIFUL crush I get, I don't think you could ever convince me to go back to not malt conditioning again (unless I got a geared mill because someone started producing a decent and fair priced one, maybe). -I brew almost all low to mid gravity beers anymore so it's important to avoid husky astringincy, especially as I've been brewing a ton of lagers with that already grainy European Pilsner malt. (Astringency ruins a kolsch, a helles, and a Bo Pils in even small quantities, IMHO.)




Adam

 

[PeteNMA]

Crankandstein mills have a grain engaged gear which I've heard good things about. However when it came time to spend money I bought a Cereal Killer on sale for 90 bucks.

I have it gapped with a credit card, runs fine with a ryobi cordless drill. Nice consistent crush, perhaps a touch floury but I don't have any issues lautering so no harm no foul.

That being said when the CK does die (and I'm sure it will one day) I will get a crankandstein. The problem I had was up selling myself, I started off looking to spend 150 or so but by the time I was done I had the best part of 300 spent. At the time it was a better investment to split that cash across multiple items (I got a mill, oxygen kit, stir plate and ferm chamber controller for less)

 

[Mexibilly]

Following

 

[FleurDeLis425]

Interesting that more companies don't make geared mills. What is the issues people face with 3-Roller mills? Is it getting the gap right?

 

[kh54s10]

I have been using an ~ $25.00 Corona style "corn mill". (Xmas present) A minimum of setup. A couple of test runs and about 70 batches since. Consistent 68- 70% efficiency. Wheat or other tough grains get milled twice. I have not made any adjustments for over 3 years.

If I go to a roller mill it will be a Monster Mill 2. I don't see the higher models being enough better to warrant the price. Monster Mills just seem to be a little better than all the rest for a very little more $$.

 

[jamesmoyna]

Hi guys, as you can see I ma nrw here, been reeding different sources on different parts of the gear I need and the mill is my next purchase.

Came across this thread, the more I reed the more I am confused, what to get, curled, geared, 2/3roller... I was down to get the 3roller MM and now zi like the helical slotted rollers from MM.

I also came across and contactd these guys http://www.mashmaster.com, geared, heat treated... Smaller in diameter... Any thoughts?

Thank you.

 

[FredTheNuke]

Go for the Platinum Standard! MM3-2.0 with hardened rollers - you'll never look back. Mine is motorized (1 HP motor) with pulleys at the minute. I have my reduction gears - just haven't gotten off my arse to rebuild the mill table yet.

 

[Cyclman]

+1 on Monster Mill. That thing's a beast, I am sure it will last forever at homebrew quantities.

I am sure there are cheaper alternatives that work great, but I figured the MM didn't break the bank, so went that direction.

 

[jamesmoyna]

Thank you for your input, I appreciate it. The one thing I am thinking about is when and if. Igrow my batch will this be a good choice... Should I spend the extra dollar and get one of the "better" one...

The thing is, where I live, things can't just be mailed in easily so I need to get this done right the first time. ������

Also, why are they not using ball bearings in stead of the bushings? Is there a valid reason? I would think that a ball bearing would be a better choice?

 

[jamesmoyna]

I emailed a Fred a number of times and called about a dossen over the past couple weeks, no luck getting one going... Not sure if they are out of the office or what. oh well, I guess I am gonna need to go with one of the other options.

 

[augiedoggy]

Aah man...I have no idea..but I do not have rust...thanks for your concern!

he said that because there have been reports of rust with the non stainless rollers...

I'll throw another vote for the cereal killer here... there has been no reports that I could find of worn out rollers unlike the Barley crusher which if you google "Grain mill worn out knurling roller" is just about the only thing that comes up... the CK uses bearings too which is an upgrade over bushings and they are usually only $100 shipped on sale from a number of places...

oh and the reality is they are both chinese mills.... some parts and "Final assembly" is done in the states to the barley crusher with chinese parts so that somehow translates to it being "made in america" for those who wish to see it that way... The reality is if you research the two there are far complaints of issues with them than any other mill.

 

[mongoose33]

I just bought the Barley Crusher after having done some research on what to buy. Lots of people satisfied with it.

 

[augiedoggy]

I just bought the Barley Crusher after having done some research on what to buy. Lots of people satisfied with it.

https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=6774.0

http://www.beeradvocate.com/community/threads/stuck-grain-mill.47665/

http://www.beeradvocate.com/community/threads/what-motor-should-i-get-for-my-barley-crusher.117032/

http://www.beersmith.com/forum/index.php?topic=9298.0

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=302061


"Offline BarleynYeast

Cellarman
**
Posts: 48
Las Vegas, NV
View Profile

Re: what mill would you recommend?
« Reply #25 on: June 29, 2011, 04:55:52 PM »
I wore out my BC in about 50 10 Gal batches. :'( I need to take it apart and clean it every time I use it. (The knurling is worn down and the back roller doesn’t catch.) I am limping through until I can afford to get a new mill. Great hearing all the opinions here to help me decide on what to buy for my next mill."


Sorry man this was just what I pulled up in five minutes... like I said google "worn out grain mill roller" and you will find thread after thread that all have the same denominator... sure people love them when they are new or if they only brew a handful of times a year...

The good news though as long as they stay in business you can keep sending it in for free roller replacement... according to the owner they have a lifetime warranty.
you do have to pay shipping though...
https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=22431.0


"Thank you for your email, It could a be a couple different things but most likely it could be the rollers are a little wore. Good news the warrantee does cover this. We have mills out there I know have crushed 1000s of pounds but everything is machined here and should be the same every time but The knurl on the roller means a lot on the mill and a knurl can be good and or bad at times. even if it comes to a sharp point doesn’t always mean it has a good bite. If not exactly correct it can have a point but smooth at the same time. So after a few years I can see them getting worn down.

If you would like to take the base and the hopper off and send the mill body back to use I can take a look at the mill and fix and or replace anything that would need to be fixed and ship the mill back to you.

Our address is..

B C Products Enterprises Inc.
P.O. Box 110
Allenton Mi
48002

If there is anything else I can do for you please email me
Thank you
Randy
B C Products Enterprises Inc."

The cereal killer uses hardened steel roller from what Ive read and likely why Ive never heard of them needing roller replacemnts.

 

[LandoLincoln]

Came across a good deal on some bulk grain and now I am looking to get a grain mill. I have been searching for the forum and found a lot of posts about "which mill is better ? Mill A or Mill B?", but I cannot find anything that really answers the following questions:

1) Is it worth investing in 2" rollers and if so, why?
2) Does a 3-roller mill provide much improvement over a 2-roller mill?
3) Is getting a stainless steel mill worth the extra money?
4) Does helical or knurled matter?

Trying to figure out what really matters when it comes to buying a mill and what is more of a gimmick.

Any insight would be appreciated.

1) I think so. Bigger rollers mean an easier time gripping the grains. This is not that big of a deal when the mills are new, but later when the knurl on the rollers is a bit worn down, the 2" is going to be able to keep on chugging whereas the 1.5" mill may not be. Considering that the cost differential between the 1.5" and the 2" is not that great, I went with the bigger rollers and I'm very happy with my purchase.
2) In my opinion, this is a definite gimmick. I can't imagine a 3-roller mill being able to give me a better crush than my 2-roller mill, since my 2-roller mill's crush leaves nothing to be desired.
3) If you plan on running slightly wet grains through your mill, then yes, definitely go with the stainless, to avoid rusting issues. I personally did not ever foresee myself doing that, so I didn't go with the stainless.
4) Can't help you with the differences in between the two.

Mills are definitely one of those things where it is wise not to cheap out, or else you're just going to have to replace your cheap mill with the one you should have bought in the first place.

That said...there's a lot of value in a Corona-type mill, and those are really cheap, compared to the other standard type mills. I started out with a Corona mill and after some fiddling with it, I got it to give me a really nice crush and it was built to last. I did move on to a MM2-Pro because I wasn't getting consistent mash efficiencies and I thought that the mill may have been the problem. Turns out that it probably wasn't the mill but was inaccurate pH readings with my pH meter.

But I'm glad I moved on to my Monster Mill, because it gives me peace of mind in my crush. Once I set it to a particular gap, it stays there, and there are no grains that foul it.

 

[mongoose33]

https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=6774.0

http://www.beeradvocate.com/community/threads/stuck-grain-mill.47665/

http://www.beeradvocate.com/community/threads/what-motor-should-i-get-for-my-barley-crusher.117032/

http://www.beersmith.com/forum/index.php?topic=9298.0

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=302061


"Offline BarleynYeast

Cellarman
**
Posts: 48
Las Vegas, NV
View Profile

Re: what mill would you recommend?
« Reply #25 on: June 29, 2011, 04:55:52 PM »
I wore out my BC in about 50 10 Gal batches. :'( I need to take it apart and clean it every time I use it. (The knurling is worn down and the back roller doesn’t catch.) I am limping through until I can afford to get a new mill. Great hearing all the opinions here to help me decide on what to buy for my next mill."


Sorry man this was just what I pulled up in five minutes... like I said google "worn out grain mill roller" and you will find thread after thread that all have the same denominator... sure people love them when they are new or if they only brew a handful of times a year...

The good news though as long as they stay in business you can keep sending it in for free roller replacement... according to the owner they have a lifetime warranty.
you do have to pay shipping though...
https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=22431.0


"Thank you for your email, It could a be a couple different things but most likely it could be the rollers are a little wore. Good news the warrantee does cover this. We have mills out there I know have crushed 1000s of pounds but everything is machined here and should be the same every time but The knurl on the roller means a lot on the mill and a knurl can be good and or bad at times. even if it comes to a sharp point doesn’t always mean it has a good bite. If not exactly correct it can have a point but smooth at the same time. So after a few years I can see them getting worn down.

If you would like to take the base and the hopper off and send the mill body back to use I can take a look at the mill and fix and or replace anything that would need to be fixed and ship the mill back to you.

Our address is..

B C Products Enterprises Inc.
P.O. Box 110
Allenton Mi
48002

If there is anything else I can do for you please email me
Thank you
Randy
B C Products Enterprises Inc."

The cereal killer uses hardened steel roller from what Ive read and likely why Ive never heard of them needing roller replacemnts.

Interesting. I vacillated between the Cereal Killer (which was cheaper) and the Barley Crusher. It was the significant number of negative reviews on the Cereal Killer that resulted in my Barley Crusher purchase.

I guess you could go find as many negative posts on anything if you search on a negative--try searching on people satisfied with it.

Maybe I'll change my mind, but as a seasoned consumer I really don't think I made a mistake. And when I see someone respond as extremely as you do, it makes me wonder if you have a dog in the fight, a dog nobody's aware of.

 

[augiedoggy]

Interesting. I vacillated between the Cereal Killer (which was cheaper) and the Barley Crusher. It was the significant number of negative reviews on the Cereal Killer that resulted in my Barley Crusher purchase.

I guess you could go find as many negative posts on anything if you search on a negative--try searching on people satisfied with it.

Maybe I'll change my mind, but as a seasoned consumer I really don't think I made a mistake. And when I see someone respond as extremely as you do, it makes me wonder if you have a dog in the fight, a dog nobody's aware of.

Please find me a thread about the cereal killers rollers wearing out... Yes you can find complaints about any product. I'm not fighting anything here. Your the one who was disagreeing and stating the opposite of what I was saying.. I just wanted to quickly validate what I was saying, sorry if you took offense to it ... I'm just trying to be factual here without beating around the bush for the OP's sake.
The negative reviews on the cereal killer I could find where from thier older first generation model with bushings (like the barley crusher used) and many owners cant comprehend how to adjust both ends evenly to not cause the non driven roller to bind up...(You can achieve the same gap with by turning both cams the opposite way and actually binding the roller in the process.) You can tell this because its usually the same few people that say they had this same problem even after they sent theirs in for replacement... That USUALLY a good indication they were actually doing something wrong... Odds are they didnt get 2 defective mills in a row. I called one guy out on his complaints in one thread and it turned out he didnt even have a cereal killer but instead some other generic mill. when comparing the two mills sisde by side the cereal killer is the better option with less complaints and failures reported online. I have put about 9 sacks plus many lbs of specialty grains though mine now without ever needing to touch or clean it or get it wet so no need for softer stainless rollers which would have a shorter lifespan. the diameter of the rollers on the cereal killer is the same as the barley crusher and yet its not a problem for the cereal killer. Mine is even motorized with a pulley and still no issues.

Honestly when searching now...Most of the negative reviews I see about the cereal killer are from folks who dont have one but feel they need to bash it because it come from china and its not expensive enough.. Take that for what its worth I guess.... If those people are the type who can afford to be that way and only buy american or chinese product rebranded and distributed by american retailers so they can stay in ignorant bliss then great... Its not relative to the function of the product here though.. The fact remains that there is a single well known and often brought up flaw in the barley crushers design being rollers that wear out quickly compared to all other home brewing mills.