What pump for a keg/carboy washer?

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Scut_Monkey

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So I'm debating building a keg washer to clean my Sanke fermenters and corny kegs. The big problem I have is finding the appropriate pump. I realize Harborfreight sells a bunch of them but I have read in a couple places on HBT of the seals breaking on these pumps and the oil leaking out of them into the keg. Is this a big concern or just over hyped?

This pump would be ideal but it definitely contains oil.
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000X05G1A/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

This seems like the same design with oil in it.
http://www.harborfreight.com/16-horsepower-submersible-utility-pump-68422-8394.html

This pump seems to have significantly less power buy maybe it is oiless? (last resort)
http://www.harborfreight.com/620-gph-submersible-fountain-pump-68393.html
 
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Why do you think those pumps have oil in them? They look like they are sealed impeller units. I don't see where they say they have oil anywhere.
 
I think you are over thinking the issue of oil - like acidrain said - I used this pump http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000X07GQS/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20 and have had no issues at all except for one.

The issue you need to focus on here is that sankes are 2" openings and carboys are a little less. I have to turn my pump off every few minutes to let the water flow back down into my bucket or I fry the pump. I bought the 1/3 hp pump which is too much I think... 1/4 should do you just fine imho. It is perfect for cornys tho... I can set it and walk away.

If I were you I would concentrate more on the water flow and how strong the flow is. AFTER, of course, that you check to see if the pump is a sealed impeller that is. Read the fine print carefully and double check the max temp restrictions as these things are getting expensive so you dont have to buy another sooner rather than later. I bought mine for 63 and now it is 83. Also make sure you buy the taller bucket too otherwise you will be sorry...

Hope this helps you!
 
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Why do you think those pumps have oil in them? They look like they are sealed impeller units. I don't see where they say they have oil anywhere.

The superior pump from Amazon I know has oil in it. It states this in the product video linked on Amazon. I did happen to find a 1/3 hp pump on Harbor freight site (see link below) that states in the description that it is Oiless which makes me assume that all the others that don't state otherwise have oil in them.

http://m.harborfreight.com/13-horse...-water-pump-with-float-switch-69296-8704.html
 
I use that same pump (Superior, 1/4hp), but rather than building my wand out of PVC, I used sweated copper @1/2". This allows plenty of space for the water to flow back in. I also, using a dremel, cut slits into a copper cap to make a sprayer nozzle so i cover the whole area. Ill post pics tonight, im really happy with the setup.

Only issue I have is, the huge pressure tends to over foam the starsan, but that shouldnt be a huge issue as by then every surface is coated.
 
I think you are over thinking the issue of oil - like acidrain said - I used this pump http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000X07GQS/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20 and have had no issues at all except for one.

The issue you need to focus on here is that sankes are 2" openings and carboys are a little less. I have to turn my pump off every few minutes to let the water flow back down into my bucket or I fry the pump. I bought the 1/3 hp pump which is too much I think... 1/4 should do you just fine imho. It is perfect for cornys tho... I can set it and walk away.

If I were you I would concentrate more on the water flow and how strong the flow is. AFTER, of course, that you check to see if the pump is a sealed impeller that is. Read the fine print carefully and double check the max temp restrictions as these things are getting expensive so you dont have to buy another sooner rather than later. I bought mine for 63 and now it is 83. Also make sure you buy the taller bucket too otherwise you will be sorry...

Hope this helps you!

I guess I haven't seen too many reports of pumps being too powerful and getting ahead of themselves but that makes sense. I wonder if it would help running a second hollow tube up parallel with the supply riser to allow air in and allow the water to flow out faster. Or running a portion of the pump flow to an open line to decrease the effective flow up the water riser. I only mention these alternatives as it doesn't seem to be easy to find a pump that meets all requirements (ie cheap, correct flow rate for corny and sake kegs, oiless).

Also, part of my plan with the pump was to use it to run beer line cleaner through my keezer lines 2 at a time. I think this would get the lines cleaner and faster than simply allowing you the solution to sit idle for 10-15 minutes which is what I do now. With this application I'm sure all of these pumps would be overkill with their flow rates and an open return line from the pump would be needed so as not to overload the pump.
 
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Most if not all submersible (sump) pumps are filled with oil. It is for cooling the motor. As long as the seals are good, no oil should leak.

IMO, once a pump is put into service under water it may be best if it stays submerged to keep the shaft seals wet. Dried on debris, detergents and stuff could wear out the seals prematurely, as does running dry.

You could put a restrictor valve on the outlet if it pumps faster than the keg can drain. I saw some threads here with video and all of working pump installations that just looked awesome.
 
I use that same pump (Superior, 1/4hp), but rather than building my wand out of PVC, I used sweated copper @1/2". This allows plenty of space for the water to flow back in. I also, using a dremel, cut slits into a copper cap to make a sprayer nozzle so i cover the whole area. Ill post pics tonight, im really happy with the setup.

Interesting - not to threadjack here but I was hoping you could give me a pic of that in a pm? I was about to buy a rotating ball spray cap but this could be a simple addition. I also sweated a threaded1/2" copper and connect that to a threaded pvc coupler - this way I can swap it out for another shorter version so that can clean my pony keg too.

Interesting comment on the creation of an air exchanger to create less drag on the draining aspect. Its funny I never spent much time on this subject but now that you guys bring it up - it makes perfect sense to try it this weekend! I am hoping to use a 3/4" copper and just jacket the outside of the 1/2" shaft...
 
I'm probably in the minority, but I had a submersible pump lose integrity of the seal and cover the inside a corny with oil. Although it's kind of nice to just set something up, walk away, and come back to a clean keg, I've found that just buying appropriately sized cleaning brushes are less of a hassle.

My sanke fermenter has a bottom drain on it in addition to the opening on top, so I just bought a center inlet chugger pump and a rotating spray ball. Here I can use 150+ degree water and PBW to make short work of cleaning. I find there's usually a krausen ring that requires some degree of elbow grease to remove, but again, having the right brushes is faster than multiple chemical cleanings.

p.d.
 
Interesting - not to threadjack here but I was hoping you could give me a pic of that in a pm? I was about to buy a rotating ball spray cap but this could be a simple addition. I also sweated a threaded1/2" copper and connect that to a threaded pvc coupler - this way I can swap it out for another shorter version so that can clean my pony keg too.

Interesting comment on the creation of an air exchanger to create less drag on the draining aspect. Its funny I never spent much time on this subject but now that you guys bring it up - it makes perfect sense to try it this weekend! I am hoping to use a 3/4" copper and just jacket the outside of the 1/2" shaft...

Let me try to take those pictures tonight. My computer just died so ive been in a frenzy trying to fix it.
 
Here we go. Sorry for the quality, and noit showing the rest of the system, but this spear connects to the 1/4hp pump, and this goes inside a 5g pail with the blue carboy dryer attched to the pail. This allows good space for air to move in and water to drain from the carboy. I may actually add the secondary tube to help air get into the carboy. The reason for the jog in the spear is to try and center it above the pump, since its outlet is offset. I need to center the spear in the carboy to reduce shadow areas.

The spear didnt come perfect, as an area or 2 sometimes have shadows but its easily solavble by turning the carboy once. I think this may have been cause by me not soldering the spear perfectly vertical, there is a slight angle to it (first time soldering). The nozzle is just a cap that was cut by a dremel.

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photo 3.JPG
 
Here we go. Sorry for the quality, and noit showing the rest of the system, but this spear connects to the 1/4hp pump, and this goes inside a 5g pail with the blue carboy dryer attched to the pail. This allows good space for air to move in and water to drain from the carboy. I may actually add the secondary tube to help air get into the carboy. The reason for the jog in the spear is to try and center it above the pump, since its outlet is offset. I need to center the spear in the carboy to reduce shadow areas.

The spear didnt come perfect, as an area or 2 sometimes have shadows but its easily solavble by turning the carboy once. I think this may have been cause by me not soldering the spear perfectly vertical, there is a slight angle to it (first time soldering). The nozzle is just a cap that was cut by a dremel.

What are you a surgeon or something? Man that is crazy! All straight lines and no f ups? Wow....
Ty for the pic! I bought the copper today for the sleeve (I guesss that is what I call it) and four caps just in case...wish me luck.
 
What are you a surgeon or something? Man that is crazy! All straight lines and no f ups? Wow....
Ty for the pic! I bought the copper today for the sleeve (I guesss that is what I call it) and four caps just in case...wish me luck.

Haha, thank you sir. There was a f*up or 2, but the dremel really makes it easy...plus the copper is so soft. I started making a cross cut, testing it, and noticing a lot of shadows. From there I kept adding cuts until basically I couldnt fit them any more.

The thing that kills me is I didnt get it very vertical, which creates some shadows by having the water go at an angle.

The other thing I learned from this is, I wouldnt go more powerful than 1/4hp for only the nozzle, as the water jets up with some force, and sometimes bounces off of the carboy.
 
Interesting comment on the creation of an air exchanger to create less drag on the draining aspect. Its funny I never spent much time on this subject but now that you guys bring it up - it makes perfect sense to try it this weekend! I am hoping to use a 3/4" copper and just jacket the outside of the 1/2" shaft...

Let us know how the air exchange works out, I am interested. I dry fitted my pump/cleaner last night. I used a combination of pvc and copper with the copper being used for the riser to minimize a build of fluid in the Sankes. In addition I also put a line in that returns directly to the bucket to decrease the effective flow rate into the keg/carboy just in case the pump starts to get ahead of itself. I figure I would only need this for the above scenario or when I'm only cleaning my tap lines with the pump which are only 5/16" lines. I haven't had a chance to test it yet on keg or carboy to see how it performs but the pump has some balls. I'll have to get some pictures.
 
Let us know how the air exchange works out, I am interested.

OK - I did it before I left for san Diego for the weekend... it worked like a champ. What I had was 1/2" copper (w a copper screw coupler) into the PVC four way and now placed a 3/4" "sleeve" around the copper riser. At the bottom of the riser I placed a copper wire which I rolled into spring (hand bent) which keeps the sleeve from stopping airflow because it sits right on the coupler perfectly. It worked flawlessly.... thank you for the help guys!!
 
OK - I did it before I left for san Diego for the weekend... it worked like a champ. What I had was 1/2" copper (w a PVC screw coupler) into the PVC four way and now placed a 3/4" "sleeve" on top of the copper riser. At the bottom of the riser I placed a copper wire which I rolled into spring which keeps the sleeve from stopping airflow cause it sits right on the coupler perfectly. It worked flawlessly.... thank you for the help guys!!

I think this calls for a picture. I'm always interested in beer porn.
 
For some reason I couldn't add a photo before (only on my phone as I am down in san diego this weekend) but alas now it will let me... ooook...so here is the pic I took. I will take more upon my return tmrw...

The final is perfect! Notice the water not coming up beyond the neck?
Before I would have water 1/4 of the way up in 2 seconds.

My backyard is sloped a bit for water runoff and I had trouble keeping the rubber sewer gasket locked onto the blue carboy dryer. Nothing a few stainless screws couldn't fix and viola all good!

Can anyone tell I have kids with the backyard being that f up? Notice the teak chair missing an arm and the sand everywhere?

1405893973656.jpg
 
I used a sump pump from Harbor Freight. One of the big submersible ones that run at like 2600GPH. Also works great to recirculate water through the chiller.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew
 
Thank you, it finally is. Sorry about jacking your thread with this additive... did you get your pump yet?

I did get a pump. I bought the clean water pump from Harbor freight that I linked to earlier. I decided to go with it because it's 1/3 hp and according to the specs does Not contain oil in the housing like most the others. I have washed about 4 cornies and 1 sanke without a problem yet. I'll try to snap a few pics of it when I get some time.
 
I did get a pump. I bought the clean water pump from Harbor freight that I linked to earlier. I decided to go with it because it's 1/3 hp and according to the specs does Not contain oil in the housing like most the others. I have washed about 4 cornies and 1 sanke without a problem yet. I'll try to snap a few pics of it when I get some time.

Nice - that is exactly what i was thinking with mine too = 1/3hp. I was sorry until I added my sleeve... now it is a permenant part of my homebrew process!
 
Here are the pics I promised. Sorry most of them are sideways, I'm not sure how to change that as this app insists on loading them that way. Anyways, in the pics you can see the return line I added to reduce the flow rate to the riser. I haven't found that I need it for this reason, however, I have used it when cleaning my keezer lines. You can see in the last pic the attachment I use to clean the keezer lines. I take off the gas and liquid ball locks from the pump Setup and attach two of the Brass and Ball lock converters I made. I then attach the ball lock from each keezer line to the ball lock post of the pump line. This allows me to recirculate through 2 lines at once which I feel is more thorough than just allowing blc to sit in the line for 15 minutes. Also, it allows me to clean the entire portion of the faucet/tap without disassembly. It has worked great and is a huge advantage in my view.

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Anybody here have experience with more powerful pumps? Ie 1hp? Wanna know what I'm getting into
 
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