What next?

[blasterooni]

Well, I have pretty much picked the neighborhood clean of apples, or at least the ones that I could see from the road (there might be one more that has some cox pips that weren't too bad a couple months ago). But, I did find one tree full of ripe pippins, so I knocked on the door to see if I could pick them, but got a "no" for the first time! She let me have two, which after tasting them, probably wouldn't fair well by themselves in a cider, very bland, barely any acid, and no detection of tannin. Oh well. It was a pretty good season all said and done. Now that I have an apple map, I'll do much better next year! I know where the crabs are too

Also, I now have an idea of how to better prepare for post apple season. One idea is to do much larger batches, instead of 5-15 gallons every month or so, maybe 30+. That way I could have some aging through the year, and bottling or kegging as each reaches its peak in development, or at least good enough for my taste. If I could afford it and find the space, it would be a dream to have a 1BBL Brite Tank (>$1000 from sS). It would look pretty cool in my already funky apartment Maybe I could find a used one somewhere...

Anyhoo, now what? I am thinking that I will probably continue to use a variety of store bought juices, and buying some whole apples to juice and blend in. I found two stores that carry Arkansas Blacks, and found some Baldwins too, and few others, they are quite expensive at almost $3 a pound. (I wonder how long they will be available???...) At one store, they have a sale area where you can get a 4-5 pound bag of apples for $0.99 if they are back there, its hit or miss. It's going to be hard to go from fresh pressed/juiced back to store bought juice. Maybe some of the cider mills up north will have frozen juice, its a long drive, but might be worth it and give me a reason to get out of urbania for a few hours!

What do those of you who don't have access to the good stuff do during "off season?"

 

[AzOr]

Time to let ciders in Carboys take a long nap.
In the meantime, I’m back to brewing beer. I’m not a huge IPA fan but this time of year I brew a few batches.

 

[cidergoats]

I have a couple bushels of Arkansas Blacks to press and that will be the end of home pressed and orchard/cidery bought juice for the season. I still have some persimmons that I'll put in a throw in with some pear. I'll be doing some batches with generic juice to compare Hungarian oak with French and American. Scaling up for me is going from 5 to 10 gallons in a batch and I'm thinking of picking up a 10 gallon barrel from a local single-malt distiller for aging a batch of off the shelf juice.

 

[blasterooni]

I have a couple bushels of Arkansas Blacks to press and that will be the end of home pressed and orchard/cidery bought juice for the season. I still have some persimmons that I'll put in a throw in with some pear. I'll be doing some batches with generic juice to compare Hungarian oak with French and American. Scaling up for me is going from 5 to 10 gallons in a batch and I'm thinking of picking up a 10 gallon barrel from a local single-malt distiller for aging a batch of off the shelf juice.

I'm on the hunt for a bourbon barrel or any barrel for that matter (Also top on the list for the hunt is a 20 ton shop press, found one but i was beat to the chase). I've emailed a couple distilleries in my area but haven't heard back. I imagine that the used barrels go pretty quick. I picked up about a bushel (40 to 50 pounds is my guess) of mixed apples last night from the bargain bin at the Berkeley Bowl last night that I will blend the juice from those with some store bought juice (straight Sugar Bee apparently). I may need another 10-15 pounds of apples to get a full 5 gallon carboy.

There are billions of persimmons on trees here in Oakland, and I have thought of making something out of them, but not sure how to go about using them. They are the kind that are ripe when they are soft and gooey. I guess I ought to look into how to make a persimmon [wine?] out of them. Could be a fun extra-curricular fermentation activity, though I bet it gets messy! If you don't mind, how do you go about using persimmons? I hate seeing all the beautiful fruit end up in a green bin heading to the dump...

 

[cidergoats]

I just started experimenting with persimmon and am still trying to find the best way to use them without an elaborate filter process. They are rather pulpy. The latest attempt is to cut up the fruit and put it in a brew bag. A friend suggested a couple freeze/thaw cycles and then pressing them. Early results of a pear/persimmon blend have been encouraging.

As for the barrels, good luck. In my area bourbon and wine barrels are hard to find or expensive as all get out. One of my local homebrew stores sells the single malt barrels that they get from Old Line Spirits in Baltimore. I have three 5 gallon barrels and will pick up a 10 gallon when I can find some space or build a rack for 'em. The first batch of cider out of one of the barrels was a bit intense on the whiskey flavoring but the other barrels weren't.

 

[blasterooni]

They will probably mellow over time... im going to keep hammering away until i get one, and someday, ill wake up and wonder how i ended up with some crazy cidery in the fingerlakes with bourbon, and wine barrels and giant brite tanks in a big ole barn with a cellar. Oh, and an orchard of course. Ha! One never know where the heck you'll end up. Shoot, i started with 2 liter bottles, now i have a bunch of 5 gallon carboys and two mini-fridge/ferm chambers. So whats a few bourbon barrels, right?

 

[AzOr]

I also want to add that it’s nice to put away all the pressing and grinding equipment.
And buckets. Lots and lots of buckets. I swear if I had 100 plastic buckets, I woulda used them all on pressing days.

 

[FunkyMunk]

What do those of you who don't have access to the good stuff do during "off season?"

I used to brew beer, but it's been a while since I've had the time, so nowadays I make mead. Satisfies my desire to ferment something, and keep a pipeline going, without needing a ton of time for any one step. Never really got into making cider using store-bought juice. I have a small batch made from neighborhood Red Gravensteins aging in my closet that I'll probably bottle in the spring.

 

[blasterooni]

I used to brew beer, but it's been a while since I've had the time, so nowadays I make mead. Satisfies my desire to ferment something, and keep a pipeline going, without needing a ton of time for any one step. Never really got into making cider using store-bought juice. I have a small batch made from neighborhood Red Gravensteins aging in my closet that I'll probably bottle in the spring.

Thats a good idea! Actually, it was the idea of making mead that sparked the whole cider making thing in the first place. My grandma used to make mead from the honey she collected from her bee hives in the yard, and this coming xmas, my daughter and I are going to make a 3 gallon batch, a passing of the family torch. She is already a Lefse expert (another tradition from grandma), so, it looks like mead is next. I wonder if its easier, not that cider making isn't already easy. I guess I mean to say, I wonder if with mead, do we worry about tannins, acid and bitterness? Looks like I'll be researching that soon

 

[FunkyMunk]

If you have a good handle on cider, mead isn't that much harder. My first batch was literally just honey, water, yeast (D47), and Fermaid O for nutrients. I didn't adjust acid or tannin or even add any sulfites, and left it dry. It still came out pretty good. Since then I've gotten into fruit additions, acid adjustments, oaking, backsweetening, etc. and it's gotten more labor intensive, but I enjoy the tinkering and having such control over the final product. But it's much like cider, in that the biggest factors in the quality of what you end up with are the quality of the ingredients and how well you manage the fermentation.

 

[Sequoiacider]

I press more than I can ferment during the apple season and pasteurize/jar a bunch so that I can continue fermenting through the off season. I currently have about 80 gallons pasteurized, mostly in gallon jugs and 1/2 gallon mason jars. I expect this to last me through most of the off season.

If I run out of juice before next apple season, then I'm thinking of trying to brew a hard seltzer, since those seem to be so popular. Seems like it should be pretty simple.

 

[AzOr]

I press more than I can ferment during the apple season and pasteurize/jar a bunch so that I can continue fermenting through the off season. I currently have about 80 gallons pasteurized, mostly in gallon jugs and 1/2 gallon mason jars. I expect this to last me through most of the off season.

If I run out of juice before next apple season, then I'm thinking of trying to brew a hard seltzer, since those seem to be so popular. Seems like it should be pretty simple.

Heat or chemical?
I have a chest freezer full of frozen pressed juice. Eventually I’d like to return it to a keezer.

 

[AzOr]

Thats a good idea! Actually, it was the idea of making mead that sparked the whole cider making thing in the first place. My grandma used to make mead from the honey she collected from her bee hives in the yard, and this coming xmas, my daughter and I are going to make a 3 gallon batch, a passing of the family torch. She is already a Lefse expert (another tradition from grandma), so, it looks like mead is next. I wonder if its easier, not that cider making isn't already easy. I guess I mean to say, I wonder if with mead, do we worry about tannins, acid and bitterness? Looks like I'll be researching that soon

Try a cyser. Best of both worlds. I like making mine wine strength and still. I started with Schramm’s recipe and tweaked since.

 

[AzOr]

I also make cysers cider strength and carbonated.
For those, I usually do 4g juice, 1g water and honey to get the gravity to .070-.080. I know it sounds weird to water your must down, but otherwise it’s hard to get the honey profile.
With proper protocol, you can drink them fairly young but aging is the best. Usually at 9mos is best for my batches. I’m planning to make a few cysers out of this years juice.

 

[FunkyMunk]

I also make cysers cider strength and carbonated.
For those, I usually do 4g juice, 1g water and honey to get the gravity to .070-.080. I know it sounds weird to water your must down, but otherwise it’s hard to get the honey profile.
With proper protocol, you can drink them fairly young but aging is the best. Usually at 9mos is best for my batches. I’m planning to make a few cysers out of this years juice.

I made one cyser, with about 3 lb honey add to 1 gallon of pressed juice. I was able to get it to 18% ABV with 1.020 finishing gravity, and loved it. Definitely going to oak the next batch. I was wondering if store-bought juice would make a passable cyser. I'm guessing it might call for some acid adjustments.

 

[AzOr]

I made one cyser, with about 3 lb honey add to 1 gallon of pressed juice. I was able to get it to 18% ABV with 1.020 finishing gravity, and loved it. Definitely going to oak the next batch. I was wondering if store-bought juice would make a passable cyser. I'm guessing it might call for some acid adjustments.

There’s a great thread on the mead forum about wood aging-
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/the-barrel-mimic-experiment.663281/page-2#post-8734813

 

[Sequoiacider]

Heat or chemical?
I have a chest freezer full of frozen pressed juice. Eventually I’d like to return it to a keezer.

Heat pasturized. Most of my off-season ciders are blended with other fruit (typical 80/20 apple/other fruit), so the "cooked apple" flavor that some people talk about in regards to heat pasturization isn't an issue. I have also done some apple-only ciders using my pasturized juice, and while it was definitely different from the unpasteurized, it was still quite good.

 

[AzOr]

Heat pasturized. Most of my off-season ciders are blended with other fruit (typical 80/20 apple/other fruit), so the "cooked apple" flavor that some people talk about in regards to heat pasturization isn't an issue. I have also done some apple-only ciders using my pasturized juice, and while it was definitely different from the unpasteurized, it was still quite good.

Thanks.
That’s interesting. I’ve bottle pasteurized before and haven’t noticed any differences either. Maybe it’s because I backsweetened and the sugars mask the cooked apple flavor.