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What is your preferred NEIPA Chloride:Sulfate PPM/Ratio?

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303Dan

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180 sulfate to 75 chloride.

Loading up on chloride never worked for me.
 
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ultravista

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Scott Janish recommended calcium chloride (195 ppm) & gypsum (74 ppm) as his preferred NEIPA water profile.
 

Morrey

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I have no clue! Making my first NEIPA this weekend and worked up my water profile to 133 Chloride to 67 Sulfate. If this looks like I am way off...please stop me before I waste darn near a pound of hops in the total process.
 

Yooper

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I have no clue! Making my first NEIPA this weekend and worked up my water profile to 133 Chloride to 67 Sulfate. If this looks like I am way off...please stop me before I waste darn near a pound of hops in the total process.
That looks fine!

Less is more is a good policy until you know that you like way more. I like what you have there, and I think you'll be pleased with it!
 
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ultravista

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Yooper - this is for a NEIPA, where the Chloride ppm is higher to achieve a softer mouth feel.
 

ejf063

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A 2:1 Chloride to Sulfate is ideal. I try for 150:75. Plus I read somewhere-cant remember where-that Calcium is just as important for a soft mouthfeel and should be above 100.... If memory serves I think number was close to 120 Ca.
 

Morrey

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That looks fine!

Less is more is a good policy until you know that you like way more. I like what you have there, and I think you'll be pleased with it!
Glad to know, thanks Yooper. I see lots of brewers skew numbers higher than my proposed 133 Chloride to 67 Sulfate, but I usually take the conservative approach until I have a brew or three under my belt.

I added a whirlpool arm to my boil kettle yesterday and think I am well prepared for my maiden NEIPA voyage. I selected Citra/Galaxy/Mosaic as late additions and a bit of Warrior as my bittering hop at 60. Cant wait til tap day. Sorry to wander off topic.
 

303Dan

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Scott Janish recommended calcium chloride (195 ppm) & gypsum (74 ppm) as his preferred NEIPA water profile.
Yeah, play around with it and see what you prefer yourself. It really is a matter of taste.

I know why people are boosting chlorides and in some cases keeping sulfate low. And I tried that, too, for a while. I didn't like the results. You have other things working for you in the mouthfeel department with these beers: flaked grains, low carbonation, some would say the biotransformations that occur when you dry hop during primary fermentation helps there too. I also use just a smidge of light crystal Malt, a la Trillium, which also helps with body as well as accentuating the sweet and/or juicy thing.

Anyway, to me, keeping the sulfate low took away from the potential hop perception the beer could have. Again, that's just been my experience. I know most people are boosting chloride.

Dan
 

elburrogrande

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I see a lot of homebrewers focus too much on the numbers but not really on how to get there. For instance, they try to get to 200 chloride by adding a bunch of cacl and get chalky flavors. Then they figure their palate does not like high chloride which could be completely wrong. For ALL my NEIPAs I add about 6-7g each of cacl and gypsum to give me about 130 cl and 110 so4 but every so often I add 5g of table salt in addition which keeps the so4 the same but raises the Cl to 200ish.
 

Morrey

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I see a lot of homebrewers focus too much on the numbers but not really on how to get there. For instance, they try to get to 200 chloride by adding a bunch of cacl and get chalky flavors. Then they figure their palate does not like high chloride which could be completely wrong. For ALL my NEIPAs I add about 6-7g each of cacl and gypsum to give me about 130 cl and 110 so4 but every so often I add 5g of table salt in addition which keeps the so4 the same but raises the Cl to 200ish.
Yeah, I figured my additions with similar logic. Combined amounts of CaCl with sea salt instead of all one or the other.
 

motosapiens

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My advice is try a few and see what you think. I made the exact same recipe with approx 150/50 (chloride to sulfate), and also with 50/150. Both tasty, both different. My impression was that the beer with more sulfate maintained a brighter hop flavor for longer. I don't have my notes with me, but I ended up keeping the chloride high-ish and raising the sulfate somewhat for the last few batches, and I like that just fine.

My water has something like 40-ish ppm sodium. I'm not sure if that affects my perception of the chloride levels or not.+
 

mmahu

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137 Chloride and 53 Sulfate ( Na 5 / Mg 11 / Ca 141 ). I only add CaCl2 and MgSO4 to adjust the ratio and a bit of Lactic Acid to lower the mash PH.
 

pshankstar

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Not to hijack the thread but along the same lines, how does this look for my water profile for a N.E. IPA? I hope to make it this weekend! Based on @Yoopers comments on page one the Chloride and Sulfate look ok but I'm not sure of the other numbers. Thanks OP for starting such a thread.

These are the numbers I get making some adjustments using Bru'n Water with a 50/50 of my house water and RO water and some mineral additions.

Thanks in advance everyone!

Calcium (ppm) - 104.9
Magnesium (ppm) - 6.0
Sodium (ppm) - 10.5
Sulfate (ppm) - 68.0
Chloride (ppm) - 133.2
Bicarbonate (ppm) - 73.8
Mash PH - 5.4
 

HiImBrian

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Just want to clarify that all of you guys have in fact tested your water to know what's in it before making these additions, right?
 

thehaze

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Just want to clarify that all of you guys have in fact tested your water to know what's in it before making these additions, right?
I use bottled still water. So it is easy building up from there. ( I have no RO water where I live )
 

Looper

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I am looking for a 50:150 SO4/Cl ratio as you have all discussed in this thread.

Using Brewersfriend, I believe the best way to get there from RO water would be to add 2.7g of Gypsum (CaSO4), and 9.5g of Calcium Chloride.

This will also bring the overall Calcium up to 106 mg/L - is this problematic?

This will be in 8g of water (3.5g for mash, 4.5 for sparge). Also - would this be defined as "soft" water, I would imagine?

Thanks in advance!
 

Morrey

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I am looking for a 50:150 SO4/Cl ratio as you have all discussed in this thread.

Using Brewersfriend, I believe the best way to get there from RO water would be to add 2.7g of Gypsum (CaSO4), and 9.5g of Calcium Chloride.

This will also bring the overall Calcium up to 106 mg/L - is this problematic?

This will be in 8g of water (3.5g for mash, 4.5 for sparge). Also - would this be defined as "soft" water, I would imagine?

Thanks in advance!
I think having calcium high like that is really ok with a NE IPA. Seems to help mouthfeel IMHO. Just as a suggestion, I don't particularly like to make all of my adjustments with one salt...especially CaCl. I usually add in some non-iodized table salt NaCl so my entire adjustment is not purely CaCl. Just my opinion.
 

Looper

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I think having calcium high like that is really ok with a NE IPA. Seems to help mouthfeel IMHO. Just as a suggestion, I don't particularly like to make all of my adjustments with one salt...especially CaCl. I usually add in some non-iodized table salt NaCl so my entire adjustment is not purely CaCl. Just my opinion.
Great advice - thank you for that idea!

I have adjusted to the following:

2.7g Gypsum (CaSO4)
3.5g Table Salt (NaCl)
5g Calcium Chloride (CaCl2)

This yields the following (in 8 gallons):
65.8 Ca
45.5 NA
150 Cl
50 SO4

Does that look better for the overall profile?
 

Morrey

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Great advice - thank you for that idea!

I have adjusted to the following:

2.7g Gypsum (CaSO4)
3.5g Table Salt (NaCl)
5g Calcium Chloride (CaCl2)

This yields the following (in 8 gallons):
65.8 Ca
45.5 NA
150 Cl
50 SO4

Does that look better for the overall profile?
That's how I'd personally do it, yes that looks great. Others may choose different ways to get there, but by using a pinch of this and a pinch of that, nothing seems to get overwhelming. This should make a very nice NE IPA from a water standpoint.
 

Shenanigans

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That's how I'd personally do it, yes that looks great. Others may choose different ways to get there, but by using a pinch of this and a pinch of that, nothing seems to get overwhelming. This should make a very nice NE IPA from a water standpoint.
Sorry about the bump but are these values all mash water or should the sparge water be treated the same too?
I plan on doing my first ever brew with water treatment this weekend for a NEIPA. It will be BIAB mashed in about 20 liters and then rinsed with 7 to 8 liters.
First I have to figure out how to use Bruin'Water :oops:

Thanks.
 

murphyslaw

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Sorry about the bump but are these values all mash water or should the sparge water be treated the same too?
I plan on doing my first ever brew with water treatment this weekend for a NEIPA. It will be BIAB mashed in about 20 liters and then rinsed with 7 to 8 liters.
First I have to figure out how to use Bruin'Water :oops:

Thanks.
I split my minerals proportionally between the strike and sparge water.

I've also played around with these numbers quite a bit and but am starting to settle on 150:150.
Scott Janish recommended calcium chloride (195 ppm) & gypsum (74 ppm) as his preferred NEIPA water profile.
Not sure about this. This is from the "Final Thoughts" section of Janish's March 2016 article on mouthfeel:

  • I don’t have an exact recommendation on the ppm of calcium chloride to have in New England IPAs or the perfect ratio of S04/CaCI2 but my experience would suggested starting with <200pm of calcium chloride and a S04/CaCI2 ratio of close to 1:1 (which does go slightly against some of the research).
http://scottjanish.com/chasing-mouthfeel-softness/
 
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