What is wrong in this method?

[DesertBoy]

Hi everyone ,
3 day ago I tried to make wine from cranberry juice, this is the steps I followed:
Pour 4 liters of juice in plastic bottle ,
+ 2 cups of sugar
+ raisins juice, small amount (about 4 spoon)
+ 1 teaspoon of bakery yeast, added to (1 tsp flour, 1 tsp sugar, 1tsp corn flour) mixed together in small amount of water.
I shake the bottle, fix a hose in a bottle of water to work as airlock, put it in dark place, the result is : nothing
I added more yeast (about 4 tsp).
The bubbles surged, very fast on the 1st and 2nd day, then slowed down gradually, stopped completely by the end of the 4th day.
Today I add more raisins to reactivate yeast, but there no response till now..
Now the juice is very cloudy and smells ugly, yeast smell is very clear
Is this normal?
The yeast consumed all amount of sugar and died ?
Or
There is something wrong in this patch ?
if it is normal should I transfer the juice into other container ?

Notice:
it is very hot here, about (43 C, 109 F), I think fermentation should take short time in such degrees
I don’t hv any professional equips, impossible to find them here, no airlocks, no hydrometers, no DJ, no sanitizers.. so I have to create my own to work..
It is not my first attempt, the first patch resulted something else than wine

Thanks

 

[Hello]

The wine will be cloudy before it clears. You need to spend a few bucks on a hydrometer at best. It's so cheap that not having one is silly. How the heck do you know if you're done fermenting?

Fermenting at 109F? That's going to really stress that yeast and produce terrible flavors I believe. It's high time you read these forums and invest in a bucket for a swamp cooler as well. Minimal investment will produce a drinkable product probably.

 

[Hopinista]

The wine will be cloudy before it clears. You need to spend a few bucks on a hydrometer at best. It's so cheap that not having one is silly. How the heck do you know if you're done fermenting?

Fermenting at 109F? That's going to really stress that yeast and produce terrible flavors I believe. It's high time you read these forums and invest in a bucket for a swamp cooler as well. Minimal investment will produce a drinkable product probably.

I suspect 'desertboy' is in a country where homebrewing is illegal. Just a hunch

 

[DesertBoy]

I suspect 'desertboy' is in a country where homebrewing is illegal. Just a hunch

that is fact not a hunch

 

[DesertBoy]

The wine will be cloudy before it clears. You need to spend a few bucks on a hydrometer at best. It's so cheap that not having one is silly. How the heck do you know if you're done fermenting?

Fermenting at 109F? That's going to really stress that yeast and produce terrible flavors I believe. It's high time you read these forums and invest in a bucket for a swamp cooler as well. Minimal investment will produce a drinkable product probably.

the big problem is: not bucks but "hydrometer is not available"
regarding the 109F, it is normal in summer season..
Historically people produced fine wine in this area

 

[DesertBoy]

thanks for ur responds Hopinista, Hello

 

[Hopinista]

thanks for ur responds Hopinista, Hello

La shukra ala wajib! Is it possible for online ordering? Or could someone send you some small items in a private parcel?

 

[DesertBoy]

La shukra ala wajib!

Keda Fihimtani, no its not possible for my own reasons
Shukran again sir

 

[DesertBoy]

is it enough fermentation ?
should i transfer it to another container, or i hv to wait for few days ??

 

[Hello]

I suspect 'desertboy' is in a country where homebrewing is illegal. Just a hunch

Illegal or not, a tub of cold water goes a long way. My answers do not change. Invest in the tools and time to gain knowledge or do not participate in a hobby if it is impossible to get the right tools. Sorry, but if you can't do it halfway right then why bother? It sounds like it will taste terrible without some sort of control over temps at the very least.

 

[IslandLizard]

You can "build" your own hydrometer, and calibrate it with measured amounts of sugar and water. Think in the direction of a weighted fishing bobber.

But the more important issue is your fermentation technique. Try to find ways to keep your fermenting "wine" cooler.
To make drinkable wine (or beer) lower fermentation temperatures keep the amount of fusel (bad tasting) alcohols down. The yeast type/strain has something to do with that too. Bread yeast may not be the best choice. There are a lot of wild yeasts on grapes and figs. You may be able to cultivate from them. All "in the dark" of course.

 

[DesertBoy]

Invest in the tools and time to gain knowledge or do not participate in a hobby if it is impossible to get the right tools. Sorry, but if you can't do it halfway right then why bother? It sounds like it will taste terrible without some sort of control over temps at the very least.

thanks hello again
the wine used to be controlled and made in clay jars, and in the similar circumstances
I cant find the right tools in the local markets that is the problems

the question is: is it fermented fast in hot places, within 4 or 5 days ?

 

[DesertBoy]

You can "build" your own hydrometer, and calibrate it with measured amounts of sugar and water.

ya am going that way
thanks sir

 

[WVMJ]

First stop adding flour and cornmeal, they will only make things cloudy. Adding more raisans is good. Did they used to bury the carboys to keep them cool in the old days when they made good wine? If you guys have ballons or latex gloves they can be used as airlocks. Since you are using a poor quality yeast your results are going to be less than perfect so you are going to have to learn to live with what you are limited in producing, but that doesnt mean you can make the best of what you can make. Find a way to keep cool, WVMJ

 

[Texconsinite]

get a cooler, put fermenter in it, and fill w cold water most of way up fermenter This will insulate from ambient temps. As water warms up, you can replace water, or insert a frozen plastic water bottle to cool off. Keep a few extra bottles frozen and rotate them as they thaw.

That should cool it down a bit

As for yeast:
I read in one post about a person making Orange juice wine in prison that raisin wrinkles contain yeast, the cheaper the raisins the better as they might be less processed.

Once you get fermentation going from raisins or grapes (something besides bakers yeast) keep the stuff on bottom of fermenter when you transfer and throw some in next batch to keep harvesting your own yeast. You should never run out this way. You can refrigerate the extra yeast in mason jars between uses


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[Texconsinite]

Also, using a balloon as airlock is good. As the balloon fills up, it's fermenting, when balloon deflates on its own, it's done.

See "joes ancient orange mead"
You can make this from the materials you have, but temp below 90 would probably help


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[DesertBoy]

First stop adding flour and cornmeal, they will only make things cloudy. Adding more raisans is good. Did they used to bury the carboys to keep them cool in the old days when they made good wine? If you guys have ballons or latex gloves they can be used as airlocks. Since you are using a poor quality yeast your results are going to be less than perfect so you are going to have to learn to live with what you are limited in producing, but that doesnt mean you can make the best of what you can make. Find a way to keep cool, WVMJ

thank u very much sir
i put the fermenter inside the room where the AC works during hot hours
of course i didnt expect high quality product

 

[DesertBoy]

Also, using a balloon as airlock is good. As the balloon fills up, it's fermenting, when balloon deflates on its own, it's done.

i didnt face any problem with the airlock, the hose fixed to bottle of water solved it..
as u said may be it is fermented completely
i have to siphon the juice in new container and keep it cold
inside the room where the AC works during the hot hours
thanks sir

 

[DesertBoy]

As for yeast:

Once you get fermentation going from raisins or grapes (something besides bakers yeast) keep the stuff on bottom of fermenter when you transfer and throw some in next batch to keep harvesting your own yeast. You should never run out this way. You can refrigerate the extra yeast in mason jars between uses


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

i thought it is dead yeast !!!!

 

[Texconsinite]

i thought it is dead yeast !!!!

Not all of it, the yeast cake contains some live yeast.
In fact, once you transfer to a new container, you can try refilling the first container with more raisins and juice, and shaking it up to disturb the yeast cake on bottom. It should start fermenting again with the new materials.

I just did this as an experiment with a batch of cider that i made with beer yeast. The cider fermented to 9%, which was up near the max tolerance for this beer yeast. I racked to bottling bucket, then refilled the galllon fermenter with pineapple-orange juice. No cleaning, just right onto the existing yeast cake, shook it up, then put on airlock. Because there was no longer an alcoholic environment, and plenty of food, the yeast woke up and fermented the new batch to 7%. It further increased the size of yeast cake.
Also, using an existing yeast cake is like using a starter, you are starting with an active colony of healthy yeast, rather than dry hibernating yeast, so it might help you get better fermentations in subsequent batches. Now, thats with beer yeast, and since you are using baking yeast, im not sure how this would work, but maybe worth a try.

There are many threads related to harvesting yeast on this site, thats how it is done in a very rudimentary sense. In fact you probably could split the yeast cake from one batch into a starter for multiple batches.

The limiting factor here is the strain of yeast that you are cultivating. You started with bread yeast, which will not neccesarily ferment the most vigorously.

You could try just adding raisins and juice to a new container, shake it up, and airlock it to see if the wild yeasts already present on the raisins will start fermenting without any bread yeast. (some have suggested chopping up the raisins) You only need this to work once, because then after you transfer, you can pour that yeast cake into a few mason jars and store in the fridge for use in future batches, instead of bakers yeast, which doesnt ferment THAT well. That's how many create a "house" strain. Its like sourdough bread where you make more dough, then bake some, give some away, and keep some for next batch.

There are several threads on here about using wild yeasts for fermentation, and since you cant buy yeast, why not grow your own? I know you have low expectations for how your finished product will turn out, but if you could get a better "wine" yeast this way, then that might help you make the best of the challenging conditions you have to work with.

Good luck! I am very interested in how your brews turn out, please keep up posted on what experiments you try.

 

[DesertBoy]

You could try just adding raisins and juice to a new container, shake it up, and airlock it to see if the wild yeasts already present on the raisins will start fermenting without any bread yeast. (some have suggested chopping up the raisins) You only need this to work once, because then after you transfer, you can pour that yeast cake into a few mason jars and store in the fridge for use in future batches, instead of bakers yeast, which doesnt ferment THAT well. That's how many create a "house" strain. Its like sourdough bread where you make more dough, then bake some, give some away, and keep some for next batch.


Good luck! I am very interested in how your brews turn out, please keep up posted on what experiments you try.

all my thaaaank sir
this is amazing
unfortunately, yesterday i threw the old container away,
but this very helpful in my case, cz there is no other yeast available
i put the juice in the fridge (still smelling ugly), on the 7th day
i will try to do so in the next mead patch
(as u notice am trying easy things)

I started this with misleading information
i thought the high temp helps the yeast to do its work
now i found that too high/low temp can perform poorly

 

[Descender]

You may also be able to get yeast off of dates and figs. These are usually grown in areas that are slightly more humid.

 

[DesertBoy]

You may also be able to get yeast off of dates and figs. These are usually grown in areas that are slightly more humid.

ya i put some dates in water for 24 hrs to make yeast
i added few raisins juice, then i will pour some of the juice into 2 sp flour
thanks

 

[IslandLizard]

Again, stop using flour. This was mentioned before already. What is the purpose?

Flour, and basically any grain, is laced with lactobacillus, which makes lactic acid (as in sour milk). It will make your "beer" sour too.

 

[Texconsinite]

Rather than flour, use grape or apple juice to draw out the yeast in raisins, dates or figs.

Since you are understandably wanting to start with something easy, DO NOT use cranberry juice, this is not the easiest medium for yeast to ferment in. And do not use flour. Ever.

you want to give the yeast plenty of sugars to eat, as well as the right blend of nutrients and level of acidity. Realize that these conditions are also good for other undesirable organisms to grow in, like mold, the "sour smelling" lactobacillus mentioned before, as well as insect larvae and whatnot.

My point is, create an environment optimal to yeast, then dont introduce anything that may have yeast on it BUT the stuff you want.

Wine has been made from Grapes for centuries because grapes contain this correct balance of nutrients, acidity and sugars that make yeast thrive. This is how i would make a yeast colony:

Put some raisins, dates or figs into some grape juice and shake it thoroughly to aerate. If you put a balloon airlock on the container, you will know you have started fermentation when the balloon starts to swell. Now you have a yeast colony.

Dump this combo into your fermenter, with sugar and more grape juice, shake it up again and let it ferment out for several weeks. When the yeast cake builds up on the bottom, and you transfer to a new container, pour the stuff on the bottom through a kitchen strainer into a few mason jars, to strain out the original raisins/dates/figs. Store these mason jars in the fridge, they will be wine yeast starters for later batches.

The off-flavors and smells you are getting from first batch is a result of starting with cranberry juice, which is acidic and low in nutrients, and using weak bread yeast. Stressed yeast gives off-flavors, so using grape juice initially makes it easier to get started, since everything the yeast needs is in there already. U should be able to ferment other juice once you have a decent yeast, and with fewer off-flavors

 

[DesertBoy]

Again, stop using flour. This was mentioned before already. What is the purpose?

Flour, and basically any grain, is laced with lactobacillus, which makes lactic acid (as in sour milk). It will make your "beer" sour too.

i used flour cz i found this in somewhere in youtube, it is ready, but i will discard it right now.. or I see if i can use it for other purpose

thanks sir

 

[DesertBoy]

Texconsinite
this is great lesson sir
dont use flour or any grain
dont start with cranberry
use the yeast cake in the later batches

latest news
now it tastes like vinegar and still smells bad
do u think it will be ok by the time?
or I have to pour it away?

 

[Hopinista]

latest news
now it tastes like vinegar and still smells bad
do u think it will be ok by the time?
or I have to pour it away?

Zebala sahibi.

 

[BamaProud]

Sounds to me like you need to check out the Apfelwein thread. Apple juice and sugar are available I suppose? All you need is yeast. Is having someone mail ya some out of the out of the question?

 

[DesertBoy]

dear BamaProud
i didnt hear about the Apfelwein, but i will try to know about it..
some of my problems i cant find what i need to make good thing in the local market

thanks

 

[DesertBoy]

now i have some kind of wine
i put it in the fridge, for about 2 weeks
day by day it became ok, taste of vinegar eliminated or (I became familiar with it)
finally i can say (about quality):
it is not good
but not soooo bad
little amount of sugar remained in the liquid (light sweet)
comparing with the local drink i can say: it is good (more than i expected)

thanks u all guys
for help & support
the next step is: dates wine