What is the optimal ale fermentation temp?

Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

CascadesBrewer

Supporting Member
HBT Supporter
Joined
Mar 24, 2013
Messages
2,919
Reaction score
2,959
Location
VA, USA
I have been brewing for many years, all ales. I never had a fermentation chamber, so my general goal was to keep the temps steady with a target of 65F being "good" and below 60F and above 72F being "bad". Just two weeks ago I got a used freezer for a fermentation chamber. Now that I can actually control temps, I realize I don't actually know optimal ale fermentation temps.

I brewed my first batch using the chamber with a general schedule of 1 week at 64F, 5 days at 68F, 2 days cold crash at 38 F. This was a split batch with WLP001 California Ale and WLP028 London Ale. The fermentation went well and the beer seems tasty (just kegged yesterday).

I just stuck a stout into the chamber with a pitch of WLP028 (edit WLP013) London Ale and set the chamber to 64F. The White Labs site says Optimum Fermentation temps for WLP013 are 66F to 71F. For WLP001 it says 68F to 73F. Is 64F "too cold" for WLP013?

I guess I always had this general idea that for most ale yeasts around 60F ferment slower and cleaner, around 70F ferment faster with more character, and around 65F was a sweet spot. Is there validity to this? In "How to Brew", Palmer recommends a temp boost around day 3 or 4 of 5F to 10F. This seems more extreme of a raise and earlier in the process than what I expected.

I searched around and did not find any good discussion...though I am feeling like the 65F to 70F range that I normally got in my basement without the chamber was pretty good. How much is it "optimal" vs "preference"?
 
Last edited:
I usually set my ferm chamber to 66°F for most ales. The setpoint is +/-2°. I will raise the temp to 68-70°F after 5-7 days depending on how fermentation is progressing then after completion, generally 10 days, I’ll move to (gasp!) secondary for dry hopping or other additions or to let the beer clear more. That can range from 5-10 days.
I do use a CO2 transfer system for both 2° & kegging.
I cold crash at 32-34° for 24-48 hours before carbing.
 
Different yeast have differing preferred temperature ranges. Pick the yeast you want to use for your beer, then look at the manufacturers website for particular information about that yeast.

I usually start my beers at the low end of their preferred range, then on day 5 to day 7 let them warm to room temp.

http://www.brewgeeks.com/the-life-cycle-of-yeast.html
 
This is interesting from that link:

The lag phase can be carried out at a higher temperature than the rest of fermentation because very little flavor compounds are produced. Ethanol production is also very limited, therefore ester formation is not a concern. Some brewers begin the lag phase for ales at 72-75F, and complete the fermentation at 68F. This can be done with success for lagers too, with starting the lag phase at 72-75F and lowering the fermentation temperature to 50-55F.

I specifically remember reading/hearing from someone (Palmer?) that you should start the fermentation low and raise temps and it was bad for the yeast to lower temps during fermentation.

Given the 66F to 71F range given by White Labs for WLP013 I will at least boost it into that range. I have only used WLP013 once for a NEIPA that I just kegged...so I don't really know much about its characteristics or if it is even a good yeast for a Stout...or an NEIPA for that matter.
 
With many exceptions 68 F is the optimal fermentation temperature for ales.
 
I specifically remember reading/hearing from someone (Palmer?) that you should start the fermentation low and raise temps and it was bad for the yeast to lower temps during fermentation.
I'm not buyin into that its bad to lower the temps during fermentation. I pitch at around 73 and let it drop overnight in room temps. THe next day its going and is around 67. Then around day 3 its up a deg or two then when it slows it drops to around 64. Beer taste perfectly fine. I have a ferm chamber (2) and only use them in warmer months. Beers taste the same either way. They're healthy little buggers. I dont believe a temp change makes much of a difference as long as your in range....Also WL actually recommends pitching there Lager yeast warm to get it going and then letting it drop.
 
I'm fermenting an Amber right now, using WLP001. Typically I might ferment it at 65 degrees, which is the bottom of the suggested range. For this one I have it at 67 degrees.
 
I'm fermenting an Amber right now, using WLP001. Typically I might ferment it at 65 degrees, which is the bottom of the suggested range. For this one I have it at 67 degrees.
Interesting. My go to yeast is 05. I thought WLP001 was the same strain. Looking at the pack now it says 53-77 Thats a big difference from WLP001 bottoming out at 65....what am I missing?
 
Interesting. My go to yeast is 05. I thought WLP001 was the same strain. Looking at the pack now it says 53-77 Thats a big difference from WLP001 bottoming out at 65....what am I missing?

Looking at this (https://fermentis.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/SafAle-US-05.pdf) it says

FERMENTATION: ideally at 18-28°C (64-82°F)​

Stuff like that always made me not pay much attention to the manufacturer's temp range info. I am curious about an 82F S-05 beer! I have a pack of S-05 and yea, it says 53.6F to 77F on the package with and "ideal" range of 59F to 71.6F. Hmmmmm.
 
Different yeast have differing preferred temperature ranges. Pick the yeast you want to use for your beer, then look at the manufacturers website for particular information about that yeast.

^^This, but also get to know the yeasts you use. Try them at different temperatures to see how they perform and what you like.

I hate US05 at the low end of it's temp range, but most brewers seem to prefer it there. I run it at about 21C/70F (ferment temp, not air temp). Conversely, I'll often use Notty, which I really dislike fermented warm. It performs well for my tastes at 16C/61F, warmed up a bit towards the end of the ferment. WY1968 (London ESB Ale) I like started at the upper end of it's listed range (20C to 22C/68F to 72F). It gives a nice minerally fruitiness without harsh esters or higher alcohols. But WY1214 (Belgian Abbey) at that temp just tastes like acetone (even though it's in the middle of the listed temperature range). You'll be amazed at how different beers can be by simply changing the fermentation profile.
 
Interesting. My go to yeast is 05. I thought WLP001 was the same strain. Looking at the pack now it says 53-77 Thats a big difference from WLP001 bottoming out at 65....what am I missing?

I don't think you're missing anything. It's just what White Labs says is the optimal temps. I have an S-05 sachet and it says what you said, 53-77. Why? "Opinions vary." :)

Here's a theory on this, take it for whatever it's worth. White Labs wants to ensure their yeast fully attenuates, and the lower the temp, the less quickly that happens. To ensure a good and complete fermentation warmer (as long as it's not too warm) is better.

But can it work well lower? I've done this yeast (both strains) at 64, and it worked wonderfully. I want a nice and clean fermentation (usually) so that works for me.

I can't think of a reason why I'd use S-05 at 53 degrees, but who knows?
 
I don't think you're missing anything. It's just what White Labs says is the optimal temps. I have an S-05 sachet and it says what you said, 53-77. Why? "Opinions vary." :)

Here's a theory on this, take it for whatever it's worth. White Labs wants to ensure their yeast fully attenuates, and the lower the temp, the less quickly that happens. To ensure a good and complete fermentation warmer (as long as it's not too warm) is better.

But can it work well lower? I've done this yeast (both strains) at 64, and it worked wonderfully. I want a nice and clean fermentation (usually) so that works for me.

I can't think of a reason why I'd use S-05 at 53 degrees, but who knows?
I've never used WLP001 therefore never seen the package. Crazy how two companies will list the same strain at such different temps. Not to derail the thread but what do you find better about 001? Same strain. I never understood why people use it when it cost more for less yeast per packet. I use 05 almost exclusively and never had anything but great results
 
I would add that the Ale styles that throw all of the above “out the window “ are Belgian Ales. Pale, IPA’s and most certainly Saisons.
Here you start at 68° or so and slowly ramp up to as high as 88-99°. This gives you the wonderful(my opinion) esters that make them unique and enjoyable!
 
I've never used WLP001 therefore never seen the package. Crazy how two companies will list the same strain at such different temps. Not to derail the thread but what do you find better about 001? Same strain. I never understood why people use it when it cost more for less yeast per packet. I use 05 almost exclusively and never had anything but great results

I don't know that it's a thread derail; it's about deciding what to use, what temps, why.

I think there are 2 or 3 reasons why I tend to use White Labs stuff. One is I've visited their lab; terrible reason, I know, but I've never had a bad package of yeast from them.

Another (probably even less valid) reason is I think virtually all commercial breweries use liquid yeast. I figured that if they weren't using dry yeast, must be a reason. I know a lot of their yeast is harvested and used again, and I think liquid yeast lends itself to that better, so maybe that's why.

A third reason is I like my fermentations to take off fast. There always is a long lag with dry yeast; with liquid yeast I have activity much faster. That's just me wanting the yeast to get going fast to outcompete any nasties that get in there.

I've read a lot of stuff that suggests there's no real difference in the beer using one or the other. The liquid is more expensive, plus I make a starter....but I like the way it takes off. Pitched yesterday at 3pm, had activity at 9pm...but then I pitch the entire starter, trying to get it in there at high krausen so it continues perking along. I'm aiming for 17 hours after getting the starter on the stir plate.
 
Another (probably even less valid) reason is I think virtually all commercial breweries use liquid yeast. I figured that if they weren't using dry yeast, must be a reason. I know a lot of their yeast is harvested and used again, and I think liquid yeast lends itself to that better, so maybe that's why.

Many, many commercial breweries use dry yeast.
 
I think there are 2 or 3 reasons why I tend to use White Labs stuff....

For whatever reason, I use WLP001 and (and 1056) over US-05. It is probably a similar reason...I made good beers with WLP001 so I stuck with it. I do want to try out US-05, some other California strains...or just using some English strains in Pale Ales/IPAs. When I started many years ago, I do think that dried yeast was not as good quality as the liquid yeast, but I don't think that is the case these days.

I tend to gravitate to White Labs because I like there product and packaging over Wyeast. I am sure Wyeast makes a good product, but I feel like the "smack pack" fools people into thinking they don't need a starter cause there is a starter in the pack, plus I have had several packs swell up on me. I have not tried many other yeast companies because I have probably used 15% of what White Labs offers...and I don't feel like paying over $10 for Imperial packs.

On the flip side S-04 became my go to yeast for Stouts and Porters for a similar reason...used it in a batch that turned out very good so it moved into my core rotation. I used to not harvest yeast from dry yeast batches, but I do now with good luck. I heard a podcast with a small professional brewer that said he liked dried yeast because he found them more hearty and he could harvest more generations than from liquid. I could see the "only the strong survive" idea of the drying process improving the overall quality of the dried yeast.
 
Last edited:
I tend to gravitate to White Labs because I like there product and packaging over Wyeast. I am sure Wyeast makes a good product, but I feel like the "smack pack" fools people into thinking they don't need a starter cause there is a starter in the pack, plus I have had several packs swell up on me.

It is definitely unfortunate that people think the nutrient pack is some sort of starter medium.

Swelling, IMHO, is a good thing as it indicates viable yeast. When I don’t get a pack that swells at room temp, I get very worried.

What I love most about Wyeast and what has kept me coming back to them is this built in “proofing” of the yeast. It may not indicate cell count but it at least tells me they have some life in them. Given that my batches are often very small, I always have enough cells without ever having to use a starter.
 
Back
Top