What can I expect?

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Teufelhunde

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I have 5 gallons of Fruit Bazooka Northeast IPA(Extract) in the bucket with the fermentation winding down. This is a NB kit and the instructions that came with the kit stated that the optimum fermentation temp was 75-80 for the Lalbrew Northeastern dry yeast that I chose. I thought that sounded a bit high, but figured, the instructions say that what is likes so go with it.

I ran across a reference to that yeast on the internet, saying it ferments at 59-72 degrees, which was confirmed everywhere I looked. Too late to turn back now, I'm just wondering what I should expect. Hopefully, it will still be drinkable.

Yes, I have contacted NB to ask if 75-80 is what they meant, or if that is a misprint.

Anyone with any ideas what I might expect out of this one?

YMMV

Lon
 

VikeMan

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When you say "Lalbrew Northeastern," do you mean Lalbrew New England? Anyway, 75-80F is very high for most strains, including any American or English strain I can think of. You can expect some elevated esters and possibly detectable fusel alcohols. The former might be ok in a NEIPA, especially one called "Fruit Bazooka.". The latter would be objectionable.
 

Steveruch

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Might not be a problem. I just had my first bottle of a pale ale fermented with BRY-97 that got up to 76f. I couldn't detect any unusual esters or fusel alcohols.
My last batch before that was a wheat beer fermented with K-97 that got up to 74f, also no issues.
 

CascadesBrewer

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Do they list a specific range for that yeast on the printed instructions? The one that I can download just has the liquid yeast options. Those ranges are probably good for those specific yeasts but too warm for the New England dry yeast. Let us know how it turns out!

Liquid Yeast Options:
· Omega OYL - 200 Tropical IPA. Optimum temp: 75°- 85°F
· White Labs WLP644 Saccharomyces Bruxellensis Trois. Optimum temp: 70°- 85°F
 
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Teufelhunde

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Update: heard back from NB and they said I should be OK, that if it had been in the 90's there would be some concern, but not at 72-74. I am aware of their guarantee, and they will be hearing from me again, should it be a hot mess..
 
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Teufelhunde

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When you say "Lalbrew Northeastern," do you mean Lalbrew New England? Anyway, 75-80F is very high for most strains, including any American or English strain I can think of. You can expect some elevated esters and possibly detectable fusel alcohols. The former might be ok in a NEIPA, especially one called "Fruit Bazooka.". The latter would be objectionable.
Yes, I did mean New England and I wouldn't know either an elevated ester or a fusel alcohol if they both bit me in the butt......
 
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Teufelhunde

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Might not be a problem. I just had my first bottle of a pale ale fermented with BRY-97 that got up to 76f. I couldn't detect any unusual esters or fusel alcohols.
My last batch before that was a wheat beer fermented with K-97 that got up to 74f, also no issues.
Good to hear....I hope it turns out well.....the gases coming out of the bubbler smell AMAZING......
 

VikeMan

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Update: heard back from NB and they said I should be OK, that if it had been in the 90's there would be some concern, but not at 72-74. I am aware of their guarantee, and they will be hearing from me again, should it be a hot mess..
Why are they addressing 72-74? I thought you fermented at 75-80?

Yes, I did mean New England and I wouldn't know either an elevated ester or a fusel alcohol if they both bit me in the butt......
You probably would. Esters are generally fruity, but a certain one (ethyl acetate) can be solventy at high levels. Fusels would be unpleasantly "hot" and solventy.
 
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Teufelhunde

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The extract recipe looks like a "algorithmic" conversion of the all grain recipe.

Which is disappointing as ...

... [as] there is rarely a reason to boil LME for 60 minutes.
Yep, I wondered about the need to boil sugar for 60 minutes without hops, but just did what the instructions said. I would imagine this should be okay with 20-30 minutes of boil time...
 

VikeMan

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The room it was in stays 72-74 this time of year. I forgot to put that in the original post...
74F room temp would mean your fermentation probably reached close to 80F, possibly higher. Just for future reference, when recipes state a fermentation temp, they are referring to the wort temperature during fermentation and not the ambient temperature. 72-74 ambient is really a bit too warm for most fermentations without temperature control. A lot of brewers (including me) will tell you that fermentation temperature control is one of the most important aspects of brewing.
 
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Teufelhunde

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Do they list a specific range for that yeast on the printed instructions? The one that I can download just has the liquid yeast options. Those ranges are probably good for those specific yeasts but too warm for the New England dry yeast. Let us know how it turns out!

Liquid Yeast Options:
· Omega OYL - 200 Tropical IPA. Optimum temp: 75°- 85°F
· White Labs WLP644 Saccharomyces Bruxellensis Trois. Optimum temp: 70°- 85°F
Your reply made me recheck the instructions, and you are correct, no temp range for the dry yeast given. Funny how your mind will read things that are not there.......this getting old thing sucks......
 

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You can expect beer. Whether or not you'll like it will depend on your tastes, preferences and previous experiences with beer.
You can also expect a case of homebrew-obsessionitis. This is characterized by spending hours reading books or "researching" online. Long brew days full of cleaning along with tense anticipation of airlock activity are normal. If your not brewing, you'll be thinking about brewing. Your recipe pipeline will over exceed your actual beer pipeline. The most painful side affect is either to your wallet (if you fall into a certain socio economic class) or your liver. Others have been known to negatively affect significant relationships... But we all know it's worth it, after all... BEER!
 

BrewChem

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If you were making something with a “cleaner” flavor profile then maybe it would be an issue but there’s so much in an IPA that will overpower the potential off flavors of yeast that fermented at a higher-than-ideal-yet-reasonable temperature like you describe.

I will say that once I was able to control and maintain fermentation temperatures in my process, my beers made a significant leap in quality, consistency and predictably.
 
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The extract recipe looks like a "algorithmic" conversion of the all grain recipe.

Which is disappointing as ...

... [as] there is rarely a reason to boil LME for 60 minutes.
You don't have to boil extract at all.
Agreed. And for this specific recipe, heating to achieve pasteurization of the LME/DME may be all that is necessary.

Recipe software makes it easy to adjust recipes for 60 min boils, to 30 min boils. So that can be a starting point for thinking about the uses of DME/LME (other than just a 1-1 substitution for base malts).

But, AFAIK, most recipes don't convert easily to "no-boil (pasteurized)".
 

GrowleyMonster

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Yep, I wondered about the need to boil sugar for 60 minutes without hops, but just did what the instructions said. I would imagine this should be okay with 20-30 minutes of boil time...
I started with LME, first kits and then freestyling it. I always noticed a tendency to foam for the first 20 or so minutes of the boil, and then the foam drops. There is obviously a reaction of some sort there. I have only done all grain for the last year or so but when I did LME I always boiled until the foam broke up and then called it good, unless I needed to reduce my volume a bit or I wanted to get a full 60 minute boil on the hops, which I no longer really care about. Most discriminating drinkers would say my brews are underhopped. I honestly don't like hoppy beers. So, if I were doing LME right now, I would be adding the hops right after mashing, and then boiling vigorously until the foaminess starts to die down. I have no scientific reasoning behind that, FWIW so AFAIC do it like you feel it. But it's a fact, you will get a good ferment even if you just boil for a few minutes to pasteurize everything. There isn't much difference between boiling hops hard for 20 minutes and 60 minutes, at least not to my unrefined palate.
 
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I would think you would want to at least bring it to a boil to insure sanitization. How long of a boil is needed to do that?
While there are some "true no boil" recipes in a couple of HomebrewTalk topics from early 2020, almost all "no boil" recipes include pasteurization of the DME/LME.

Pasteurization occurs at lower temperatures + some amount of time. A 20 minute hop steep @ 180 F is sufficient.

On the broader topic of brewing with DME/LME ...

In one of the BBR extract podcasts from 2005 (either Aug 25 or Nov 17) there is a brief discussion the idea of shorter boils with DME/LME. So the idea of shorter brew days with DME/LME isn't new.

"algorithmic" conversion of al grain recipes to DME/LME is one way to brew with DME/LME. However, there are alternatives:
  • 30 minute boils,
  • 15 Minute Cascade Ale,
  • BBR's Hop Sampler,
  • and "no boil (pasteurized)" recipes (including the recipes @Steveruch has published in Zymurgy)
offer interesting approaches for shorter brew days.

edits for typos, ...
 
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CascadesBrewer

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I would think you would want to at least bring it to a boil to insure sanitization. How long of a boil is needed to do that?
When I was doing some research on this (related to sanitizing equipment with hot water) information was a bit inconsistent. What I could turn up was that sanitization occurs near instantly at boiling temperatures and in maybe 60 seconds at 180F. There are sources that point towards a 10 or 15 minute boil being required though.

I just brewed my first all-grain "raw ale" where I just raised the temp of the wort up to 180F, added hops, and let it steep for 20 minutes before chilling. We shall see how it turns out!
 

CascadesBrewer

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Is this referring to equipment? extract-based wort? all-grain based wort?
Just in general. For example, the first hit on a Google search is the following (not specific to brewing and maybe related to contaminated water) https://www.oas.org/dsd/publications/unit/oea59e/ch23.htm

"Boiling is a very simple method of water disinfection. Heating water to a high temperature, 100°C, kills most of the pathogenic organisms, particularly viruses and bacteria causing waterborne diseases. In order for boiling to be most effective, the water must boil for at least 20 minutes."

I suspect that a newly opened can or bag of extract is fairly sanitary and most people are working with water that is in good shape. I would not have an issue with just bringing up a batch of extract to boiling then killing the heat.
 

Davedrinksbeer

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I made the fruit bazooka this spring from NB, awesome beer, drink it young, it lost some of the fruit flavors after the 3rd month or so.
I think the beer will be fine if you fermenter low 70’s. All the dry hopping should help hide any off flavors.
 
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Teufelhunde

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No you need hops, but you can get some bitterness without boiling. This works well with styles that have low bitterness. I recently did an ordinary bitter no-boil with mittlefruh hops that turned out really good.
Yeah, I was questioning gaining IBU's without hops....
 
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Teufelhunde

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I made the fruit bazooka this spring from NB, awesome beer, drink it young, it lost some of the fruit flavors after the 3rd month or so.
I think the beer will be fine if you fermenter low 70’s. All the dry hopping should help hide any off flavors.
3rd Month??? No need to worry, my five gallons batches never make it a month...LOL
 
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Teufelhunde

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Well, I dredged up this dead horse for an update.

I bottled this today, and, once carbonated and chilled, if it tastes like I think it is gonna, I just might have a new favorite recipe. Tasting the little bit of left overs, it was good enough to drink, even flat and warm......

YMMV

Lon
 
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Teufelhunde

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Another update. Last night drank my "5 days in the bottle" test bottle and it is not bad at all. Not nearly as hoppy as I had anticipated, but still not bad. I have another kit ordered from NB, and will do this one at room temp also, but with the appropriate liquid yeast that is meant to ferment at room temp, and see how that turns out.....

YMMV

Lon
 
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