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MilwaukeeBrewGuy

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how well are the fusel alchahols hidden in this beer? I am curious if they are somewhat apparent early on but fades with some aging. Or are they pretty well masked early on?
 
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saq

saq

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There aren't any if you keep the temp in check and pitch enough yeast starting at 65f.
 

yuggs

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First off, thanks guys - this thread has been an inspiration.

Here's what I've done:

I brewed saq's updated recipe about 3 weeks ago for 10.5g, using direct fired step mashing and reserving some candi sugar to add in secondary.

OG was high at 1.101 (too efficient!), so I diluted with water to get to 1.084, with the intention of adding the last 6pts of gravity at secondary.

Primary temps shot up to ~81F on day 2 and I cooled to ~65F on day 5. On day 9, gravity was ~1.020 without the last sugar addition.

I racked to secondary, added 2lbs of candi sugar (upping gravity to 1.026) and started cooling to ~44F (no temperature control, unfortunately). It's been sitting there for ~2 weeks.

I'm worried about a couple things:
1) did I rack too early? I figured 1.090 -> 1.026 was ~80% apparent attenuation.
2) is lagering at 44F too cold? will the yeast go dormant, leaving my brew too sweet? should I move it to my 62F basement?

I did save some yeast from primary, so I can add it if needed. Apologies for the long post, but this endeavor is becoming all-consuming!


Thanks.
 

Beezer94

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First off, thanks guys - this thread has been an inspiration.

Here's what I've done:

I brewed saq's updated recipe about 3 weeks ago for 10.5g, using direct fired step mashing and reserving some candi sugar to add in secondary.

OG was high at 1.101 (too efficient!), so I diluted with water to get to 1.084, with the intention of adding the last 6pts of gravity at secondary.

Primary temps shot up to ~81F on day 2 and I cooled to ~65F on day 5. On day 9, gravity was ~1.020 without the last sugar addition.

I racked to secondary, added 2lbs of candi sugar (upping gravity to 1.026) and started cooling to ~44F (no temperature control, unfortunately). It's been sitting there for ~2 weeks.

I'm worried about a couple things:
1) did I rack too early? I figured 1.090 -> 1.026 was ~80% apparent attenuation.
2) is lagering at 44F too cold? will the yeast go dormant, leaving my brew too sweet? should I move it to my 62F basement?

I did save some yeast from primary, so I can add it if needed. Apologies for the long post, but this endeavor is becoming all-consuming!


Thanks.

If the brew was at 81F then cooled down to 65, this can cause the yeast to drop out of suspension and go dormant.

You wanted to add the sugar to the primary and let it ferment, where all the yeast was, before transferring to secondary. There is always some yeast, but not enough for a big ferment, so they need to duplicate big time. And @44F this won't happen.

I would let the beer warm up to 65-70F and add some of that yeast.

90-26 = 64 & 64/90=71.1% not 80%
 
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saq

saq

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Primary temps shot up to ~81F on day 2 and I cooled to ~65F on day 5. On day 9, gravity was ~1.020 without the last sugar addition.

I racked to secondary, added 2lbs of candi sugar (upping gravity to 1.026) and started cooling to ~44F (no temperature control, unfortunately). It's been sitting there for ~2 weeks.

I'm worried about a couple things:
1) did I rack too early? I figured 1.090 -> 1.026 was ~80% apparent attenuation.
2) is lagering at 44F too cold? will the yeast go dormant, leaving my brew too sweet? should I move it to my 62F basement?
I covered some of these same questions recently in my recipe thread on this beer here: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f73/pious-westvleteren-12-style-quad-multiple-147815/

You racked too early because you fermented to cool. You should have left it fermenting at 81f, it would have been very happy there and you would have definitely gotten the attenuation you were looking for.
If you cool down to 55f you basically get the yeast to gently go into hibernation and drop out and fermentation will come to a stop. 44f will do this quicker.
When some of the monastic brewers like Brother Joris say "lagering" they don't mean it in the sense that they are fermenting like with lager yeast, they mean it as a form of conditioning and maturation.
 

yuggs

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thanks - my math was wrong - I thought full apparent attenuation would be 90-10=80, so I divided 64/80=80%. Arrrgh...

As soon as I get home from work, I'm going to take those buckets out of the fridge, re-pitch ~2 liters of trub from primary, mix it up and wait until we get to 1.012.

Live, learn.
 

Bullka

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I have a question on the yeast, I am going to use Wyeast Activator 3787 - Trappist High Gravity smack pack for a 5 gallon batch.
Will I need a starter with this type of beer since the smack pack by itself only handles a gravity up to 1.060?
I am planning on having a gravity of 1.080, how large should my starter be?
Mr Malty Calculator says 2.62 liters for intermittent shaking, is that right?
I have always used dry yeast in the past and pitched it directly with no complaints, but I thought I would try using the appropriate yeast this time and make my first starter.
Thanks for the help!
 

enid

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Defiantly recommend a starter, and 2.6L looks good. One 11.5g dry yeast package has about 230-300 billion yeast cells and your liquid yeast only has about 100 billion.
 

MilwaukeeBrewGuy

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if you are not in a hurry to make this West 12 you could do what i did. Brew a Patersbier first. It is just pilsener, hops and 3787. Then when it is done you can throw the yeast cake at the Westverleten 12. That Patersbier if very good for a simple / cheap recipe.
 

SumnerH

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if you are not in a hurry to make this West 12 you could do what i did. Brew a Patersbier first. It is just pilsener, hops and 3787. Then when it is done you can throw the yeast cake at the Westverleten 12. That Patersbier if very good for a simple / cheap recipe.

If you do this, make sure you use part of the yeast cake--if you use the whole thing, that's a pretty big overpitch. For a Belgian where you actual want some ester contribution to the flavor profile, overpitching is as problematic as underpitching.

MrMalty has calculations for how much yeast slurry to pitch.
 

BeerPressure

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I am learning towards brewing the traditional recipe. I did not read every single post in this thread.

Would the candi syrup be added in the beginning or the end of the boil?
 
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saq

saq

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I've done it all different ways. These days I am leaning towards 100% of the syrup at the end of the boil and let it knock the boil out. The different ways you do it generate different kinds of flavor, experiment and see!
 
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saq

saq

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Just a few minutes to make sure you actually get the grains up to temperature too.
 
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