West Coast IPA feedback

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RyPA

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Hey guys,

After brewing back to back NEIPA's I decided to switch it up and try out a west coast IPA. What are your thoughts on this recipe? Any recommendations/suggestions?

Edit: Thank you all for your feedback. I created brewers friend recipe for review.


Ideally, I want to use what I have on hand, but I can order whatever is needed if I cannot make it work.

Grain
  • 2-row - ~40 lbs
  • Golden Promise - 10 lbs
  • White wheat - 8 lbs
  • Honey malt - 4 lbs
Hops
  • Citra lupomax
  • Citra T-90 (2 oz)
  • Columbus lupomax
  • Galaxy
  • Mosaic lupomax
  • El Dorado lupomax
Thanks
 
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thehaze

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Amber malt has no place in an IPA - way too toasty / roasty. Drop it and use more 2-row/Pale/GP. If the recipe is for 5 gallons/20 liters, then you are really low on hops - hot side, cold side, all sides and also, 6 days dry hopping is way too long - there is no benefit from dry hopping more than 36-72 hours. But seeing there is no mention of predicted ABV, IBUs, etc. maybe it is a 3-4% Session IPA?
 
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RyPA

RyPA

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Yes, it is a 5g recipe, let me plug this into a recipe calculator and get it revised -- I was not aiming for a session beer with this. Regarding amber malt, I was trying to give it a bit more color, but I suppose it isn't necessary. Thanks for the feedback
 

Beermeister32

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I would get rid of the amber and replace it with 1lb of corn sugar. You are brewing a hop forward beer, not a malt forward beer.

Brewers friend has a water profile for light and hoppy beers. I’d use something like that rather than a profile for amber beers.

 

BrewnWKopperKat

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Any recommendations/suggestions?

Consider using basic / "classic" ingredients that support non-tropical hop flavors / aromas.
  • 90% "two row", 10% "light munich";
    • 25% Golden Promise is probably too much
    • Sugar (as @Beermeister32 mentioned) for higher ABV recipes
  • Color is pale (otherwise, see Red IPA).
  • 50 IBUs of a classic bittering hop (Magnum, Warrior, ...)
  • Flavor/Aroma hops appropriate for either a "classic" or "modern" IPA
  • Yeast strain appropriate for either a "classic" or "modern" IPA
Hops: for a more "classic" West Coast IPA (the anit-NEIPA?) consider the full list of classic "C" hops as well as Simcoe and Amarillo. There's more to classic "C" hops than Cascade and Centennial.

Yeast: something that doesn't contribute flavor and "lets the hops shine". Verdant's flavor wheel (link) shows 'red apple' and 'tropical'.
 

TLaffey

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Grain
  • 2-row - 8 lbs
  • Golden Promise - 4 lbs
  • Amber - 1 lb
Hops
  • Columbus - 0.5oz - 60 minutes
  • Mosaic - 0.5oz - 10 minutes
  • Columbus - 2oz - 30 min hopstand
  • Citra - 2oz - 30 min hopstand
Dry hops
  • Mosaic - 2oz - 6 days
  • Citra - 1 oz - 6 days
  • Mosaic - 2oz - In serving keg
  • Citra - 0.5oz - In serving keg

My Go-To style. My typical grist is 80-100% 2-row, with a few percent of munich, vienna (if I want sweetness) or wheat (for more foam.) Definitely drop the amber malt. I've tried golden promise in a hoppy IPA and will probably never use it again.

You don't state the batch size, but given the grist weight, I'll guess 5G. For a 5G IPA, I'll usually use 12-16 ounces of hops. (Check that avatar over there!) Doubling the hopstand/whirlpool hops will get you into range. But I would not use columbus later than mid-boil. :mug:
 
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RyPA

RyPA

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Thanks for your feedback guys, I created a BF recipe in the OP taking your feedback into account. Please take a look
 
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RyPA

RyPA

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I'm aiming for a piney/dank/marijuana profile for this batch. Getting a little nervous adding more citra. I may need to buy more/different hops to get what I'm after. Simcoe or Chinook? Any recommendations?
 

BrewnWKopperKat

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For piney, as a starting point, take a look Columbus.

IIRC, Columbus, Tomahawk, and Zeus are essentially the same hop with different names. They are often referred to as CTZ.
 

BrewnWKopperKat

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Yes, I have Columbus in there already
Sorry, missed that. When I scanned the hops list I only saw the phrase "[online] [supply] [store] - LUPOMAX". My bad.

If you're looking for a "more classic" West Coast IPA: 1) remove Citra and Mosaic, 2) consider the slightly older (aka "classic") hops previously mentioned, 3) identify some recipes for classic craft West Coast IPAs to compare hop types and rates.
 
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RyPA

RyPA

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Maybe some of these guys? Cascade, Centennial, Chinook, Amarillo, Simcoe

Also, using wheat, am I going to end up getting a hazy beer? I want this to be on the darker/golden side, but clear.
 

CascadesBrewer

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Yes, I have Columbus in there already

There are lots of options and opinions on IPAs! Just wanted to point out that if you are counting on getting some "piney/dank/marijuana" character from Columbus, you will not get it with a single addition at 60 minutes. Columbus/CTZ has a reputation of being a fairly neutral bittering hop and it is the hop I generally use for the bittering addition for all my American IPAs and APAs.

If you want to push "piney/dank/marijuana" then you would want to add hops like Columbus, Chinook, and Simcoe as late boil, flameout/whirlpool, or dry hops. My favorite IPA recipe has Centennial and Chinook at flameout and as the dry hop. Chinook is an underrated hop for dry hopping.

But, it is hard to beat a Citra and Mosaic combo!

Also, using wheat, am I going to end up getting a hazy beer? I want this to be on the darker/golden side, but clear.

I use 10% wheat in my house IPA and it drops clear after a week or two in the keg. I am not sure how you will get to "darker/golden" using just 2-Row, Wheat and Sugar. I am one of those old school heathens that like to add some Crystal to my IPAs. I like to use Munich 15L when I just want a bit of color.
 
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RyPA

RyPA

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Thanks for the input on hops

The current grain bill doesn't give me any color, it is kind of an open question for how do I get a nicer color, maybe Ill try some Munich 15L, 1/2 lb?
 

TLaffey

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OK, there's West Coast and there's San Diego. :cool: I'm more in the SD camp (hops over color?)
+1 on some Simcoe if you want Piney. I don't care for Simcoe flavor used in dry hop, so only short boil or WP in my recipes.
+1 on Munich. If you want color, you can go higher--1lb would work.
I don't use crystal these days, but about 2-4ozs of C60 is what I used previously for color. IMO, more than that and the flavor competes with the hops.
 
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RyPA

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This is my first WC and would like for it to be half decent. Can you share one of your favorite recipes that is pretty solid? Once I get a decent one down, I can then make small adjustments in the future
 

CascadesBrewer

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While I have not brewed it myself, this AHA recipe seems like a pretty solid classic WCIPA:

My "house" recipe started off based on info I could find on Racer 5 and has evolved over several batches:

I am sure there are some good IPA recipes here on HBT as well.

The current version of your recipe looks like it would make a nice beer as well. Over the past several years the trend for IPAs has been toward simple grain bills (with little to no Crystal) and more use of "modern" hops. Yours is leaning toward that. Hop amounts in an IPA can vary from 4-5 oz total, to 1 lb or more.
 
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RyPA

RyPA

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What I'm afraid of is brewing something that tastes like the NEIPA's I did recently. Just want to ensure I get that WC hop punch. Thanks for posting those recipes.
 
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RyPA

RyPA

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I can sub Columbus for Centennial, right? I have Citra. Are any of my hops above good subs for Simcoe? Would love to not have to order anything
 

CascadesBrewer

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I can sub Columbus for Centennial, right? I have Citra. Are any of my hops above good subs for Simcoe? Would love to not have to order anything

Of the hops you listed, a Columbus + Citra + El Dorado combo might work well. Galaxy and Mosaic are great hops, but would push the character towards a more modern version.
 

CascadesBrewer

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GABF Gold Medal IPA 1992, 1993, and 1995

Ahh...the good old days when an IPA was dry hopped with 1 oz of hops! More old school recipes can be found here: Cats Meow 3 (the "IPA"s are in the Pale Ale section)

Honestly, I like some aspects of classic IPA recipes, but 1 lb of Crystal 60 combined with a 158F mash temp, and a total of 2 oz of late boil and dry hops? Also, don't secondary and especially don't dry hop "3 weeks in secondary".
 

Wayne1

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That was the way that beer was made in 1992.

It was revisited about 4 years ago in a collaboration with Wynkoop Brewing

Recreation of Vail Pale Ale

A more modern version of the recipe is below:

Vail Pale Ale
6.8% / 15.6 °P
Recipe by
Wayne
All Grain
BrewZilla / RoboBrew 65L (copy)
70% efficiency
Batch Volume: 6.5 gal (Kettle)
Fermenter Volume: 5.71 gal
Boil Time: 90 min
Mash Water: 8.48 gal
Total Water: 8.48 gal
Boil Volume: 6.95 gal
Pre-Boil Gravity: 1.060 / 14.7 °P
Vitals
Original Gravity: 1.064 / 15.6 °P
Final Gravity: 1.012 / 3.1 °P
IBU (Tinseth): 50
BU/GU: 0.79
Color: 6.4 SRM
Mash
Strike Temp — 157.1 °F
Temperature — 149 °F75 min
Mash Out — 167 °F10 min
Malts (16 lb)
15 lb (93.8%) — rahr 2row — Grain — 2 SRM
1 lb (6.3%) — Castle Malting Chateau Abbey — Grain — 22.5 SRM
Hops (16.2 oz)
1.5 oz (22 IBU) — Centennial 10.2% — Boil — 90 min
2 oz
(17 IBU) — Centennial 10.2% — Boil — 20 min
2 oz
(7 IBU) — Cascade 6.3% — Boil — 10 min
1.5 oz
(3 IBU) — Cascade 6.3% — Boil — 5 min
1.5 oz
(1 IBU) — Cascade 6.3% — Aroma — 5 min hopstand
3.7 oz
— Cascade 6.3% — Dry Hop — 4 days
4 oz
— Centennial 10.2% — Dry Hop — 3 days

Hopstand at 176 °F
Miscs
4 g — Calcium Chloride (CaCl2) — Mash
2 g
— Epsom Salt (MgSO4) — Mash
4.1 g
— Gypsum (CaSO4) — Mash
3.5 ml
— Lactic Acid 80% — Mash
2 ml
— Fermcap-S — Boil60 min
1 items
— Whirlfloc — Boil15 min
2 g
— Yeast Nutrients (WLN1000) — Boil15 min
Yeast
2 pkg — Fermentis US-05 Safale American 81%
Fermentation
Primary — 68 °F14 days
Carbonation: 2.4 CO2-vol
 
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RyPA

RyPA

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Considering trying this, seems nice and simple, just going to replace MO with 2-row or GP and quinoa with rolled oats.

 

hout17

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That was the way that beer was made in 1992.

It was revisited about 4 years ago in a collaboration with Wynkoop Brewing

Recreation of Vail Pale Ale

A more modern version of the recipe is below:

Vail Pale Ale
6.8% / 15.6 °P
Recipe by
Wayne
All Grain
BrewZilla / RoboBrew 65L (copy)
70% efficiency
Batch Volume: 6.5 gal (Kettle)
Fermenter Volume: 5.71 gal
Boil Time: 90 min
Mash Water: 8.48 gal
Total Water: 8.48 gal
Boil Volume: 6.95 gal
Pre-Boil Gravity: 1.060 / 14.7 °P
Vitals
Original Gravity: 1.064 / 15.6 °P
Final Gravity: 1.012 / 3.1 °P
IBU (Tinseth): 50
BU/GU: 0.79
Color: 6.4 SRM
Mash
Strike Temp — 157.1 °F
Temperature — 149 °F75 min
Mash Out — 167 °F10 min
Malts (16 lb)
15 lb (93.8%) — rahr 2row — Grain — 2 SRM
1 lb (6.3%) — Castle Malting Chateau Abbey — Grain — 22.5 SRM
Hops (16.2 oz)
1.5 oz (22 IBU) — Centennial 10.2% — Boil — 90 min
2 oz
(17 IBU) — Centennial 10.2% — Boil — 20 min
2 oz
(7 IBU) — Cascade 6.3% — Boil — 10 min
1.5 oz
(3 IBU) — Cascade 6.3% — Boil — 5 min
1.5 oz
(1 IBU) — Cascade 6.3% — Aroma — 5 min hopstand
3.7 oz
— Cascade 6.3% — Dry Hop — 4 days
4 oz
— Centennial 10.2% — Dry Hop — 3 days

Hopstand at 176 °F
Miscs
4 g — Calcium Chloride (CaCl2) — Mash
2 g
— Epsom Salt (MgSO4) — Mash
4.1 g
— Gypsum (CaSO4) — Mash
3.5 ml
— Lactic Acid 80% — Mash
2 ml
— Fermcap-S — Boil60 min
1 items
— Whirlfloc — Boil15 min
2 g
— Yeast Nutrients (WLN1000) — Boil15 min
Yeast
2 pkg — Fermentis US-05 Safale American 81%
Fermentation
Primary — 68 °F14 days
Carbonation: 2.4 CO2-vol

Wow thanks Wayne looks amazing and the fact that it won gold at GABF says a LOT. Going to have to put this on my brew list.
 

hout17

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Considering trying this, seems nice and simple, just going to replace MO with 2-row or GP and quinoa with rolled oats.

I love the hop combo in this one.
 

BeerAndTele

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I'm probably in the minority here, but I feel that citra and mosaic are so overused nowadays. A little bit goes a long way, and to me they can have a cat pee vibe ... or a lemon pledge furniture polish vibe, especially when used too liberally. And these newer breweries that use it in every ale they brew ... ugh. My apologies to citra fans everywhere..

For a west coast IPA I'm using mostly 2-row, maybe a bit of Munich. I'll use crystal 40 or 60L, but not to exceed 5 or 6% of the grain bill.

I'm mashing in the 152-154 F range; don't want it to get too dry ... a malt backbone is needed for the hops to sit on.

I'm bittering with a neutral bittering hop like magnum or warrior. I try to keep the IBUs in the neighborhood of my OG (i.e. 60-65 IBUs for a beer with an OG of 1.065).

For flavor, I'm using Cascade and Centennial for the grapefruit, and Chinook for the pine. I'll use Amarillo if I want a tick of orange pith. Maybe a little Simcoe, but this gets overpowering quickly so I go light. For 5 gals, I'll use 2-3 oz total late in the boil and 2-3 oz total dry hop (the totals being a mix of the varieties above.)

I'll use WLP007 or WLP001 yeast. I've also used WLP002 and loved it, but it may not be as true-to-style as the others.

Water profile, I don't go nuts with the sulfates - I keep them in the 120-150 ppm range. Chloride < 100 ppm.

But that's just me. Cheers! :mug:
 
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RyPA

RyPA

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My brew day got delayed a few weeks but this Saturday looks like the day.

I'm going to go with this recipe, as mentioned above

I do not have distilled on hand so I am going to go with tap + campden. Can I blindly add any salts to improve this, even marginally? or am I better off not adding anything
 
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