Wells Bombardier clone attempt

[grahamfw]

Let me know what you guys think about this recipe. I've toned down the chocolate malt and upped the grain bill by 10% or so to account for some efficiency issues (that I THINK might be related to my LHBS grain and not me...). This can be slightly out of style and little higher than usual gravity as far as I'm concerned.

Recipe: Wells Bombardier clone
Style: 11A-English Brown Ale-Mild

Recipe Overview

Wort Volume Before Boil: 48.00 qts
Wort Volume After Boil: 44.00 qts
Volume Transferred: 44.00 qts
Water Added: 0.00 qts
Volume At Pitching: 44.00 qts
Final Batch Volume: 44.00 qts
Expected Pre-Boil Gravity: 1.051 SG
Expected OG: 1.055 SG
Expected FG: 1.013 SG
Expected ABV: 5.6 %
Expected ABW: 4.4 %
Expected IBU (using Tinseth): 12.4
Expected Color: 18.4 SRM
Apparent Attenuation: 75.0 %
Mash Efficiency: 65.0 %
Boil Duration: 60.0 mins
Fermentation Temperature: 68 degF

Fermentables
UK Pale Ale Malt 17.20 lb (66.8 %) In Mash/Steeped
UK Caramalt 5.00 lb (19.4 %) In Mash/Steeped
UK Light Crystal 1.80 lb (7.0 %) In Mash/Steeped
UK Dark Crystal 1.50 lb (5.8 %) In Mash/Steeped
UK Chocolate Malt 0.25 lb (1.0 %) In Mash/Steeped

Hops
UK Fuggle (4.5 % alpha) 0.50 oz Bagged Pellet Hops used 60 Min From End
UK Golding (5.5 % alpha) 0.50 oz Bagged Pellet Hops used 60 Min From End
UK Golding (5.5 % alpha) 0.50 oz Bagged Pellet Hops used 30 Min From End
UK Fuggle (4.5 % alpha) 0.50 oz Bagged Pellet Hops used 10 Min From End

Other Ingredients

Yeast: Considering using just Safale-05 for this. Thoughts?

Mash Schedule
Mash Type: Full Mash
Schedule Name:Single Step Infusion (68C/154F)
Step: Rest at 154 degF for 60 mins

Recipe Notes

 

[BigEd]

First my stock answer to many recipe questions: Way too much crystal malt. In addition I don't think the chocolate is necessary. If you're going to use dry yeast at least use a British strain. S-04 would be OK although a London Ale yeast like WL013 or WY1028 would be better choices IMO. The American 05 is not the one for this brew. Wells uses Challenger and Fuggles hops so I would do the same. BTW Bombardier is a bitter, not a brown ale.

This is a 10 gallon recipe:

15 lb UK pale malt
1 lb UK medium crystal
.5 lb UK dark crystal
Mash: 67C/153F

90 minute hops:
1 oz Challenger and 1/2 oz Fuggles

10 minute hops:
1 oz Fuggles

 

[grahamfw]

I should really pay attention to style guidelines when harvesting clone recipes online. Those look like good recommendations BigEd.

I think I will go with the London Ale WLP013.

Any thoughts as to adjuncts used for this brew? I'd imagine the real thing doesn't use 100% malt.

Thanks!

 

[MattHollingsworth]

Yeah,it's not a brown ale at all. It's a bitter.

From the Real Ale Almanac, circa 1998, by Roger Protz, which could now be inaccurate:

OG 1.042 4.2% abv

Ingredients: pale malt (almost 100%), crystal malt. Challenger and Goldings hop pellets. 34 units of bitterness.

Tasting notes:

Nose: Earthy hop resin aroma.
Palate: Ripe malt in mouth with good hop balance, dry finish with black currant fruit notes.
Comment: Deep copper colored, finely balanced ale

Hope this helps.

 

[MattHollingsworth]

And yeah, from their website here, seems that Fuggles is now used instead of Goldings:

http://www.bombardier.co.uk/bombardier/about-the-beer/how-its-made

 

[grahamfw]

Here's what I settled on. I upped the base malt to account for possible inefficiency and/or the possibility of having a stronger bitter. I also added more hops to raise the IBUs into a more appropriate range for ESBs. You could call it more of variations on a theme. I left the chocolate for more color since the thing is pretty damn pale without it:

Recipe: Wells' Bombardier Act II
Style: 8C-English Pale Ale-Extra Special/Strong Bitter

Recipe Overview

Wort Volume Before Boil: 12.00 US gals
Wort Volume After Boil: 10.75 US gals
Volume Transferred: 10.75 US gals
Water Added: 0.00 US gals
Volume At Pitching: 10.75 US gals
Final Batch Volume: 10.75 US gals
Expected Pre-Boil Gravity: 1.052 SG
Expected OG: 1.059 SG
Expected FG: 1.016 SG
Expected ABV: 5.6 %
Expected ABW: 4.4 %
Expected IBU (using Tinseth): 35.7
Expected Color: 13.2 SRM
Apparent Attenuation: 71.0 %
Mash Efficiency: 75.0 %
Boil Duration: 90.0 mins
Fermentation Temperature: 64 degF

Fermentables
UK Pale Ale Malt 21.00 lb (92.3 %) In Mash/Steeped
UK Light Crystal 1.00 lb (4.4 %) In Mash/Steeped
UK Dark Crystal 0.50 lb (2.2 %) In Mash/Steeped
UK Chocolate Malt 0.25 lb (1.1 %) In Mash/Steeped

Hops
UK Challenger (6.3 % alpha) 2.00 oz Bagged Pellet Hops used 90 Min From End
UK Fuggle (4.3 % alpha) 1.50 oz Bagged Pellet Hops used 90 Min From End
UK Fuggle (4.3 % alpha) 1.50 oz Bagged Pellet Hops used 10 Min From End

Other Ingredients

Yeast: White Labs WLP013-London Ale

Mash Schedule
Mash Type: Full Mash
Schedule Name:Single Step Infusion (68C/154F)
Step: Rest at 154 degF for 60 mins

Recipe Notes

Will report back on how it is!

Graham

 

[MattHollingsworth]

Not meaning to give you **** or anything, but I wouldn't add chocolate to get the color up. The British use some dark sugar in their beers sometimes to get the color up. And a 4 oz of chocolate really is going to add a note of chocolate. If you want to make an Amber or Brown, I'd say just do that. The chocolate will taste nice. But Bombardier doesn't have any chocolate notes from what I recall.

Compared to the original, your gravity is way, way higher too.

Like I said, no offense intended at all. But maybe you're just going for a British Amber of some sort. No problem with that at all. But if you're actually trying to clone the beer, you should get rid of the chocolate and lower the gravity quite a lot.

Your recipe looks like it'd be tasty. But it doesn't really look like it'd taste the same as the source. It looks like sort of a Bombardier ++ to go with some coding lingo. Maybe more of an "inspired by" than a "clone".

Anyway, looks like it'd be tasty, so why not go for it.

 

[grahamfw]

I appreciate the feedback. I posted it FOR feedback!

I'm sort of planning for the worst. I've ordered online grains for the first time to see if it's my technique or my LHBS' grains that are the source of my efficiency woes.

The bottom line is that I'm brewing this batch exclusively (save for a six pack or so!) for a wedding reception as a gift, and I need it to be good. If I set the grain bill for the true bombardier and it comes in too low, I'm stuck with some fairly low gravity ale (probably still tasty, but people will wonder why they can drink 15 of my beers and still feel fine to drive). As the recipe stands, I can afford to have bad efficiency (again, if it IS my technique that is questionable - I've gotten well over 80% before just not in a few batches...) and still have a respectable brew.

The color is the only reason for the chocolate malt, but I'll look into some dark sugar perhaps for colour (sic). Is 4 oz of chocolate really going sing in 10.5 gallons of beer?

Maybe if I hit my gravity right on, I can dilute with a bit more water to get it back down to regular Bombardier strength. Thanks again for the feedback!

Graham

 

[MattHollingsworth]

I appreciate the feedback. I posted it FOR feedback!

I'm sort of planning for the worst. I've ordered online grains for the first time to see if it's my technique or my LHBS' grains that are the source of my efficiency woes.

The bottom line is that I'm brewing this batch exclusively (save for a six pack or so!) for a wedding reception as a gift, and I need it to be good. If I set the grain bill for the true bombardier and it comes in too low, I'm stuck with some fairly low gravity ale (probably still tasty, but people will wonder why they can drink 15 of my beers and still feel fine to drive). As the recipe stands, I can afford to have bad efficiency (again, if it IS my technique that is questionable - I've gotten well over 80% before just not in a few batches...) and still have a respectable brew.

The color is the only reason for the chocolate malt, but I'll look into some dark sugar perhaps for colour (sic). Is 4 oz of chocolate really going sing in 10.5 gallons of beer?

Maybe if I hit my gravity right on, I can dilute with a bit more water to get it back down to regular Bombardier strength. Thanks again for the feedback!

Graham

Naw, in 10 gallons 4 oz will be fine I think. I was thinking 5 gallons. You might pick it out. I used 60 grams (2 oz or so) in a 5+ gallon batch recently and definitely picked it out. But it added something nice. I liked it. It was in an Amber, though. Mild toast/roasty note, but subtle.

I think you'll have a nice beer here. See what you think. Personally, I LOVE Challenger. See what you think. I'd just leave this recipe for the time being. But what I've enjoyed with some of my beers is to swap the hops and see what I think later when I can taste them side by side. Challenger is dual use. So, if you're happy with the beer, maybe try swapping the hops so Chalenger is the lead hop next time and see what you think. It's super earthy and fits well with EKGs. Nice one.

Anyway, hope it goes great.

 

[BigEd]

I should really pay attention to style guidelines when harvesting clone recipes online. Those look like good recommendations BigEd.

I think I will go with the London Ale WLP013.

Any thoughts as to adjuncts used for this brew? I'd imagine the real thing doesn't use 100% malt.

Thanks!

No it's all malt. I will also repeat what I said yesterday and agree with Matt that there's no chocolate malt in the beer either. If you are worried it won't be dark enough or simply have to use chocolate malt just use a couple of tablespoons worth. That will give a nice, deep subtle red tone and will not affect the flavor.

 

[grahamfw]

I'm going to give this another whirl. The first batch was tasty but not quite a session beer. The gift was well-received by the bride and groom and that's all that matters. I have since uncovered some cleanliness issues so this brew should be head and shoulders better than the previous. Here's what I'll be doing:

Recipe: Wells Bombardier clone v.2
Style: 8C-English Pale Ale-Extra Special/Strong Bitter

Recipe Overview

Wort Volume Before Boil: 11.50 US gals
Wort Volume After Boil: 10.00 US gals
Volume Transferred: 10.00 US gals
Water Added: 0.00 US gals
Volume At Pitching: 10.00 US gals
Final Batch Volume: 10.00 US gals
Expected Pre-Boil Gravity: 1.049 SG
Expected OG: 1.054 SG
Expected FG: 1.015 SG
Expected ABV: 5.1 %
Expected ABW: 4.0 %
Expected IBU (using Tinseth): 43.0
Expected Color: 11.1 SRM
Apparent Attenuation: 71.0 %
Mash Efficiency: 83.0 %
Boil Duration: 90.0 mins
Fermentation Temperature: 68 degF

Fermentables
UK Pale Ale Malt 16.00 lb (90.8 %) In Mash/Steeped
UK Light Crystal 1.00 lb (5.7 %) In Mash/Steeped
UK Dark Crystal 0.50 lb (2.8 %) In Mash/Steeped
UK Chocolate Malt 0.12 lb (0.7 %) In Mash/Steeped

Hops
UK Challenger (7.0 % alpha) 2.00 oz Bagged Pellet Hops used 90 Min From End
UK Fuggle (4.5 % alpha) 1.50 oz Bagged Pellet Hops used 90 Min From End
UK Fuggle (4.5 % alpha) 1.50 oz Bagged Pellet Hops used 10 Min From End

Other Ingredients

Yeast: White Labs WLP013-London Ale w/ 2 Liter starter (stirplate)

Mash Schedule
Mash Type: Full Mash
Schedule Name:Single Step Infusion (68C/154F)
Step: Rest at 154 degF for 60 mins

Recipe Notes

 

[DromJohn]

Updated link