Weld Quality in SS Kegs

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Mutchinator

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Hey All:
I am making the step to AG brewing and decided to purchase three modified kegs for my HLT, MT, and BK. The frame I will have made locally. After reading many posts on this website and others - my concern is that the weld quality of the modified kegs is poor.

Would some of you mind commenting on these? The kegs include all tri-clamp fittings (on appropriate kettles): thermometer, sight glass, ball valve, (2) heating element ports (HLT and BK), and siphon tube.

Both the inner and outer welds appear to be inconsistent and the inner welds have many areas in which there are gaps between the vessel wall and coupling.

Your help is greatly appreciated in advance - my alternative is to return these kettles and splurge for the Sabco units...any advice on these as well would be great.

Jason


 
I think pictures are the only way to convey just how good or bad the welds are. However, I will say that whether they are leaky or not, and or if there is any rust is really all you have to worry about. There is no need for a sanitary welding on hot side vessels. Now, if this were a conical, it would be a different story.
 
Being A welder for many years , and doing many kegs the welds inside most of your hot water tanks and other tank do not need to be food grade ,because when you get to your full wort boil all things will be sterile then . Would have to see the prob. you say you have w/ welds. All tanks should really be heli-arc welded aka tig welded.I prefer to put fitting threw tanks and use a process of welding called dog walking the cup being ex fitter you get a great weld on outside of tank , Now if the coustomer insist on food grade inside I will purge tank w/inert gas and weld accordingly food grade and polish all welds inside. Not sure if this helps you or not ! But big catapiler welds are not signs of good welder.
 
Thanks for the reply - I submitted without posting pics and will be doing that in a few minutes...thanks again for your feedback.

Jason
 
Mutchinator said:
Hey All:
I am making the step to AG brewing and decided to purchase three modified kegs for my HLT, MT, and BK. The frame I will have made locally. After reading many posts on this website and others - my concern is that the weld quality of the modified kegs is poor.

Would some of you mind commenting on these? The kegs include all tri-clamp fittings (on appropriate kettles): thermometer, sight glass, ball valve, (2) heating element ports (HLT and BK), and siphon tube.

Both the inner and outer welds appear to be inconsistent and the inner welds have many areas in which there are gaps between the vessel wall and coupling.

Your help is greatly appreciated in advance - my alternative is to return these kettles and splurge for the Sabco units...any advice on these as well would be great.

Jason


Click to expand...


* OK - here are the pics in original post; it took me some time to figure out how to post...

Would I be better off to return these and order the Sabco? I was told these would be "the same quality as Sabco" - but did not see the actual product until I received them this week; despite my requests for photos of the kegs.
 
These are not the most beautiful welds, but they'll make beer (assuming they don't leak). I would clean them up a bit and keep an eye on them for rust to appear.

As Bobby said, I wouldn't have the same welder build a fermentor if I were you.

Unless you are looking for "bling" factor, I would use the kegs you have.

Ed
 
What you see inside is Know as sugar crystaling cause is from too much heat wich causes blister inside , Doesnt look like was tig welded to me but would need more clear pic of actual weld.Prob mig welded and start and stops could cause leak probs.It could be re-welded with a tig and fused all welds equally (wich means just fuse welding all welds pretty simple process)using low heat w/tig of course or moving faster w/more heat
your weld should have color in them when finished green blue gold purple should look really pretty .That is when you no weld was at perfect temp when welding SS .If this does not leak I would say you should be fine.
 
As Ed post when cleaning up welds you can use wire brush But make sure this is SS brush because a steel brush will imbed iron filings in SS and it will rust .
 
Thanks for the feedback...my frustration is that I paid a chunk of change ($1,300) for these (which included (2) false bottoms, sight glass, blichmann hinged thermometers, and a bunch of trip clamps/gaskets).

I had an offer from Sabco for about $1,600 or so for something similar. Would the Sabco be welded any more effectively?

OR...

Would I be just as well to find a local (experienced) TIG welder to modify the welds?

I noticed the cutout around the fittings has a gap - and is it safe to assume that can easily be filled with a good weld and ground down if needed?
 
Thats alot $ coin I get 90 bucks a hour ,Would not do anything unless you have a leak !Cant say wether sabco is any better never seen there product . Wouldnt buy ferm conical from this guy if his welds reflect this kind of quality cause you will have a bact. prob then ! If was my money wouldnt accept this kind of quality , ask sabco are all welds food grade . Purging this vessel and using low heat getting good welds will not let sugar bleed threw in .gas shields the weld not letting it oxydize that is the dirty looking weld on the inside make few product you mix w/de natured alc. brush on and it shield weld causing a gas when heat by welding it we use this on pipe where it is not possible to purge and it is used in process food grade so it is good product.will check out sabco products and look see if its superior to what you have ,Alway say get what you pay for .
 
Looking at sabco products nothing looked welded all bolt on , looks like good quality stuff . You no where you stand by dismantling your equipt. and cleaning it yourself.If you vcan get refund and have the extra money to spend I would go for sabco IMO
 
The welds will need to be passivated after the welding, just the nature of SS when heated or ground down. To passivate add enough water to cover affected areas and add 50/50 mix of citric and ascorbic acid at the rate of 1 cup/2 gallons and heat to 180 degrees and let cool to room temp (8 hour duration works best). You should be able to transfer the passivating solution to the next keg and reheat to 180 degrees and let cool again as the solution should still be able to extract free iron. The object is to remove the free iron exposed by the welding and grinding and restore the oxide coating to prevent rust. You can find the powdered forms of the acids on Amazon or you might find them in a craft store as they are sometimes used in perfumed soap recipes.
 
My dad and I are going to build the stand. He was a certified welder (back in the day), but did not feel comfortable doing the SS as he did not have experience in doing so.

Bobby_M: Way too much paid for the quality? Or way too much money paid for three kegs, period? I have the $ aside for this, but wanted to get something that will last me a forever and be built of high quality. Guess this guy over-promised and under-delivered?
 
kladue said:
The welds will need to be passivated after the welding, just the nature of SS when heated or ground down. To passivate add enough water to cover affected areas and add 50/50 mix of citric and ascorbic acid at the rate of 1 cup/2 gallons and heat to 180 degrees and let cool to room temp (8 hour duration works best). You should be able to transfer the passivating solution to the next keg and reheat to 180 degrees and let cool again as the solution should still be able to extract free iron. The object is to remove the free iron exposed by the welding and grinding and restore the oxide coating to prevent rust. You can find the powdered forms of the acids on Amazon or you might find them in a craft store as they are sometimes used in perfumed soap recipes.
Click to expand...

Kladue: Is this something which needs (or should) be done with any new keg?
 
Any time you cut, grind, weld on SS it needs re-passivated, the acidic wort will eventually get it done but the rust freaks most people out when they see it. The grinding and welding expose iron between the nickle and chrome crystals and it will rust until enough iron is dissolved to let chrome recrystallize over the opening and seal it off. BKF uses Oxalic acid as a means to remove the iron and encourage the chrome to recrystallize, but at the low level of Oxalic acid it contains, it is better suited for maintaining rather than trying to do major re-passivization.
 
It's not really clear exactly what you got for the money but to put it into perspective, I rescued three sankes from the the scrapyard for $38 each. I paid $130 for 10 bulkhead welds (that look better than those). You'd have to add in the cost of the other accessories but I doubt they'd come out to another $1000. There's something to be said for paying once for everything already outfitted but it seems excessive to me.
 
I am going to give him a chance to make this right at this point...and I am asking for a full refund on all three kegs. Now that I am better informed (thanks to the folks who have offered feedback) - I will know what to look for and what is more appropriate to pay.

The guy I bought these from does some work for other homebrewers in the area, so I assumed he had experience and did quality work. He even told me they would be "the same as Sabco" - but less money. I fgured that he was a one-man show and would not need to charge the higher prices as Sabco - guess he over-estimated his workmanship.

Hopefully he makes this right - it can't be good for business to have this stuff on the street.
 
I don't have any experience with welding but they looks rather poor in comparison to other weld pics I have seen around here. I would ask for the money back as well especially if you were asking for pictures before you purchased them. As long as they don't leak I'm sure they would work fine but I think if you paid for a Cadillac you should get a Cadillac and not just something that runs. Just my opinion.
 
hope he makes it right with you, Sabco get big money for 1.they do quality work. 2. they give you legit kegs. if these are grey area kegs and his work is shoddy then he is a #*%@#.
 
I think they are legit kegs (brand new actually), but he tells me a little bit ago (via email after several attempts in contacting him) that he did not actually do the welds. One of his workers did the welding...argh...

So - he offered to refund me $200 or ship them back to him (on his dime) and he will personally make the welds and send back to me. My concern is that whether he is able to make them like Sabco - which is what was promised from the start.

The more I look at the weld pictures, read everyone's feedback, and check out Sabco's products - the more frustrated I get...
 
For the money you are putting into your gear you can buy a Blichmann or MoreBeer rig.

The advantage there is that these folks will back their word, and have LOTS of experience in the design.

I have no experience in any of the brand name builders, but in my opinion I would not take the money out of my wallet unless I see the product first.

Sabco, Blichmann, and MoreBeer show you exactly what you are getting.
 
I was contemplating the Blichmann vs. Kegs - but feel (after quite a bit of research) that the Kegs are better suited, more flexible, and better value...

I checked with Sabco again on the three kegs and (with the heater element ports) - it will likely be around $2,000 for the three kegs. Now - that's insane...

But - to your point, they are probably incredible quality as well.

I think we are moving towards working things out as he is sending me a pre-paid shipping for all three kegs. He will personally modify (include new fittings as needed) and send back. I am not too pleased with the quality and fact that someone else did the mods - but I will give him the benefit of the doubt. I have seen some of his other work - and he does have I think 15 years experience in welding including TIG and sanitary. So - I will keep everyone abreast as things progress...
 
Mutchinator said:
I was contemplating the Blichmann vs. Kegs - but feel (after quite a bit of research) that the Kegs are better suited, more flexible, and better value...

I checked with Sabco again on the three kegs and (with the heater element ports) - it will likely be around $2,000 for the three kegs. Now - that's insane...

But - to your point, they are probably incredible quality as well.

I think we are moving towards working things out as he is sending me a pre-paid shipping for all three kegs. He will personally modify (include new fittings as needed) and send back. I am not too pleased with the quality and fact that someone else did the mods - but I will give him the benefit of the doubt. I have seen some of his other work - and he does have I think 15 years experience in welding including TIG and sanitary. So - I will keep everyone abreast as things progress...
Click to expand...

I would definitely have him send you pictures of the welds before he ships them back. This way if they are still junk welds the ball is in his court to do something with them.
 
Absolutely! He has actually been very receptive to working this out...so I feel more comfortable now after seeing some of his other work which is actually very impressive. I provided a list of items to clarify and he said he would be able to accomodate them all.
 
Well - we were making some progress and he has been pretty receptive to trying to work this out. However, it's now two months since I ordered the kegs and I have yet to brew a drop with the kegs. At this point I am asking for a 100% refund - and I will start from scratch with a local welder who looked at the kegs the other night. The more I look at them - the more I find...now I see that the heating element ports cross each other and hit the false bottom siphon tube; and one of the kegs is missing the internal ferrule for the siphon tube. So - they are useless until fixed...

I hope to have this resolved by tonight - else my fiance' is going to strangle me. Time to call the credit card company I guess...

He has maintained a great reputation after reading other people's experience with his work - but I guess I got the bad batch...
 
and yet you have not dropped a name.... i would not be as kind ! good karma on its way for the B.S. you got from this deal. you may want to warn outhers from this guy.
 
Ok folks...here I am a month later and my situation is still not resolved! We appeared to have an agreement which essentially provided me with three new kegs and all new fittings; in addition to the Blichmann Hinged Thermometers, Lids, False Bottoms, etc...plus I was refunded back $450. In all - it appeared to be amicable although I was strongly requesting a full refund despite his attempts to tell me "...the kegs are fine..." and that one of his employees did the actual welding...

Since that time - I have received the partial refund a week or so ago; some of the fittings/ferrules have arrived - and now I am waiting for a bunch of the remaining ferrules, thermometers, lids, etc.

Bear in mind that it is now THREE months since I sent my payment for $1,300 to him - and since that time I have identified a pattern of setting false expectations, excuses, and (what I believe are) flat-out lies. Not to mention I won't hear from him for days despite my on-going attempts to reach him and explicitly layout what we both agreed upon...

Most recently I was told that I "...should have the kegs on Friday..." and the "...thermometers are going to be at his place on Monday..." But yet I was told (via email and on phone) that he had the Thermometers and lids almost two months ago. When I question this - I get no reply...

He asked that I do not expose him on HBT and I really do not want to do so...however, I also went back through some of his older posts and found that others have had challenges with him saying one thing and then another, setting false expectations, etc...(some would call this lying)...it turns out, although I may be having a more extreme example, that I am not alone.

This post is my final one - and I have contacted both Paypal and my credit card to dispute the charges and request a COMPLETE REFUND! Three months, $1,300 - nothing to show for it but a ton of headache and frustration. I am not one to lose my cool - but I am at my tipping point.

He has failed to reply to me since Monday - and I have asked him to confirm his intent of resolving this situation.

So - I am venting a bit, so my apologies....

This is serving as his last opportunity to make this right - refund me the remaining dollars and call this quits.
 
Mutchinator said:
Ok folks...here I am a month later and my situation is still not resolved! We appeared to have an agreement which essentially provided me with three new kegs and all new fittings; in addition to the Blichmann Hinged Thermometers, Lids, False Bottoms, etc...plus I was refunded back $450. In all - it appeared to be amicable although I was strongly requesting a full refund despite his attempts to tell me "...the kegs are fine..." and that one of his employees did the actual welding...

Since that time - I have received the partial refund a week or so ago; some of the fittings/ferrules have arrived - and now I am waiting for a bunch of the remaining ferrules, thermometers, lids, etc.

Bear in mind that it is now THREE months since I sent my payment for $1,300 to him - and since that time I have identified a pattern of setting false expectations, excuses, and (what I believe are) flat-out lies. Not to mention I won't hear from him for days despite my on-going attempts to reach him and explicitly layout what we both agreed upon...

Most recently I was told that I "...should have the kegs on Friday..." and the "...thermometers are going to be at his place on Monday..." But yet I was told (via email and on phone) that he had the Thermometers and lids almost two months ago. When I question this - I get no reply...

He asked that I do not expose him on HBT and I really do not want to do so...however, I also went back through some of his older posts and found that others have had challenges with him saying one thing and then another, setting false expectations, etc...(some would call this lying)...it turns out, although I may be having a more extreme example, that I am not alone.

This post is my final one - and I have contacted both Paypal and my credit card to dispute the charges and request a COMPLETE REFUND! Three months, $1,300 - nothing to show for it but a ton of headache and frustration. I am not one to lose my cool - but I am at my tipping point.

He has failed to reply to me since Monday - and I have asked him to confirm his intent of resolving this situation.

So - I am venting a bit, so my apologies....

This is serving as his last opportunity to make this right - refund me the remaining dollars and call this quits.
Click to expand...

If you get your money back and you want to try this again, go to Kegglebrewing.com. Terry's price will be a lot less, his welds are of good quality and he will not rip you off.
 
Yes - I learned alot during this process. Unfortunately, an expensive lesson to learn - not to mention the level of frustration. I tried to work this out - he tried as well, but consistently failed to execute his end of the bargain in a timely manner.

I really do not want to expose him - the guy makes some nice stuff here as well; primarily stands and such. In those cases - I am sure the weld quality is not such an issue. Regardless - the business practices is a whole other issue.

Maybe I should not have gone down this path to begin with...hopefully by tomorrow this will be worked out and I will have all of my money in hand.
 
I know from personal experience that it is hard to expose someone but it is really important. If you save one other person the headache and BS that you had to go through how would that make you feel?? In my case I saw someone else get burned and then opened up. I felt bad that the second person was even involved. I could have prevented it.
 
wow, coming from the offroad industry desert racing seen we would see hack jobs like this all the time with some fly by night shop or DGAF Brah claiming to build your bumper, cage your truck, build Long Travel suspension etc.

bumpers would look like doo doo butter, cab cage extremely unsafe, suspension breaking first time in the dirt. etc. all while these guys are LEARNING ON YOUR DIME.

I hope you end up with kegs that look great and make amazing beer.

-=Jason=-
 
What has he done to help you with this situation? Why would you help him by not exposing who the vendor is? I'm just saying you don't owe him anything considering how things have played out.
 
Scut_Monkey said:
What has he done to help you with this situation? Why would you help him by not exposing who the vendor is? I'm just saying you don't owe him anything considering how things have played out.
Click to expand...

in the fab industry this could break a business, and in IMHO anyone charging for the abomination that the OP got deserves to be outed so others know to steer clear.

-=Jason=-
 

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