Welch's 100% FGJC unavailable...enhance flavor?...convert recipes?

[Intheswamp]

Most of the Welch's Juice wine recipes call for cans of FGJC, whereas liquid amounts (jugs) of juice are less frequently stated. The problem that I have is that it appears that the frozen concentrates are basically non-existent in my area, though plenty of jugs of juice can be found. I've checked the usual suspects...Wallyworld, Publix, local grocery stores, etc.,. Nada.

I'm figuring on using my hydrometer to get to the desired OG so will probably be heating up some of the jug juice to dissolve sugar into. But, the only way to get a more concentrated presence of the fruit is to "reduce" the juice by boiling it down to a smaller volume. I'm not sure about the procedure to do this reducing without hurting the juice. Is a more rigorous boiling preferred to "get it done" quickly, or a more "gentle boil" that takes longer? Does it really matter? Any pointers on this?

When a recipe calls for 3 cans of FGJC and "enough water to make a gallon" and I'm sitting here with two 64oz jugs of juice...how would I arrive at the flavor intensity of the frozen concentrate?

It just seems that if using only 100% liquid juice and without an over-application of FGJC to enhance the fruit presence that the resulting wine will have less flavor. Naturally, throwing some frozen fruit in the must could enhance the flavor some but then you add the aspect of gross lees and possible clearing issues. I'm looking at the White Grape & Peach recipes.

Maybe what I'm asking is "How do you get increased flavor in a Welch's Juice recipe when all you have to work with is the liquid versions of the juice and no FGJC? ...and you don't want to add any solid fruit? I figure later, after a jug or two of pure Welch's Juice wine, I'll tinker with some solid fruits, but first I'd like to get the base wine figured out.

For some reason I'm having trouble putting the above into words, so I hope somebody understands what I'm getting at. I *can* be a bit "out there" at times.

 

[S-Met]

Granted, I've never tried this, but have you tried evaporation concentration. I don't think sugar wil evaporate, but you may run into oxidation issues.

What I have done and does work is freeze Concentrate. Get the plastic jug. Pour out about 12oz and save because ice expands. Once it freezes solid, invert into a container until 50-70% of the volume has melted. Sugar water has a lower melting point than the water. You do lose a little inthe process as its not the most efficient method, but I drink the low sugar leftovers (or make cocktails with it).

 

[Intheswamp]

Thanks for the feedback, S-Met. You got me running down an interesting rabbit trail!!! Freeze concentration sounds interesting. I've got some more reading to do!!!!

 

[S-Met]

Its the same concept as apple jack or whatever its called.

I did it with a few watermelons a couple years ago. Think I did 4 runs per gal and turned 12 gal into about 1.25 gal. A taste of the final run was sweeter than a jolly rancher bordering on sickeningly sweet for me. One quart into 5gal made a great summer wheat ale.

 

[Blacksmith1]

Publix should have old orchard brand concord grape juice concentrate. That's where I get mine. If yours doesnt carry it talk to the manager, they will be more than happy to order it for you.

 

[Intheswamp]

I'll have to recheck Publix when I'm in the area again...they're about 30 miles from me. I've got to make a trip up to Montgomery this week, though, so if I have the time I might explore a few of the places there...Publix, Costco, etc.,. I did an online look-up of stores that handle Welch's White Grape & Peach concentrate and they show a couple of chain groceries having it in stock...that's about 50 miles to the east of Montgomery.<sigh> I'll come up with something or go with the juice (which I have on hand). I'd like to have some concentrate to easily "up" the flavor a bit. We'll see what we come up with. I've been trying to prepare an area to work in, a room in a trailer/mobile home that has been vacant going on five years....what a mess.

 

[S-Met]

If you have a freezer and time... consider freezer concentrating. I don't support or have any affiliation with the site below, but it seems to outline the process well.

However, I froze in bottle as mentioned above. Then inverted the bottle into a funnel and set the funnel into another bottle. Then leaned the bottle into a corner on my counter and left it undisturbed.

https://abarabove.com/juice-concentrate/

 

[501irishred]

Not that freeze concentrating your own juice wouldn’t be a neat experiment, but a 12oz can of concentrate comes out to the same as 48oz of juice (or there about). The only difference is you need to be a little more selective on the juice as more preservatives may be used in the “fresh” juice.

 

[Blacksmith1]

The idea of the concentrate, homemade or store bought, is to add it to your plain juice making both the flavor and the sugar level stronger. Doing a freeze concentrate at home just to add water back to it would be compleately useless.

 

[Intheswamp]

Thanks everybody for the continued feedback.

@Blacksmith1 , I understand what you are saying about it being a useless procedure (and would be wasteful) *if* water was going to be added. But, if you're going to use a base of fruit juice with no water and you want to increase the flavor then adding the freeze concentrated juice would increase the flavor and SG (which might reduce the amount of white sugar needed), wouldn't it? Use juice to dissolve what sugar is required and add to the bucket.

@501irishred , that is a pretty big difference between store bought concentrate and jug juice. Something tells me I wouldn't be able to reduce the juice down to 25% volume. Hmm, I probably do need to keep looking for concentrate but the freeze concentrating might come in handy at times.

Thanks again for giving me some good food for thought, ya'll. I've got some more work to do before I start fermenting anything...gotta get a spot fixed to ferment in. Got a ways to go yet, but we will see. One thing that is a positive is that our heatwave broke today...the high today was 7 degrees cooler than yesterday's, that doesn't seem like a lot but man it that helps!

 

[Blacksmith1]

Yup that's how it works. Getting already done in a can is alot easier. And you can add the sugar straight into the bucket.

 

[Intheswamp]

I'll be in Montgomery this week and will try to hit a few grocery stores there and see what they've got. It appears in my area that Krogers carries the White Grape & Peach frozen concentrate, but the nearest Krogers is another 50 miles up I-85. I'll sniff around a bit and see what I can turn up...hope I remember to carry a cooler with me!!!

 

[Blacksmith1]

So how much does it cost to pipe in the sunlight where you are?

 

[501irishred]

Have you asked someone at your local stores? I guess stranger things have happened, but it’s hard to believe concentrates aren’t available. Perhaps they are just kept in a weird spot...... (and I know what I’m asking is nearly impossible at Walmart, but you might get lucky)

 

[Blacksmith1]

Most walmarts keep them with the frozen veggies below the bags of frozen fruit.

 

[501irishred]

And they usually keep employees to ask in the break room, right next to the vending machine and the time clock.

 

[bmd2k1]

Load the various stores apps & check product availability that way [emoji111] I do it all the time...to catch sales on my supplies.

Cheers [emoji16]

 

[S-Met]

The idea of the concentrate, homemade or store bought, is to add it to your plain juice making both the flavor and the sugar level stronger. Doing a freeze concentrate at home just to add water back to it would be compleately useless.

I agree that adding h2o back is useless, but why would you add h2o unless you overshoot your gravity and need to dilute. Though I would probably use undiluted juice if I overshot.

Something tells me I wouldn't be able to reduce the juice down to 25% volume.

Why not? I reduced 2 gal to a quart. Just takes several runs. Won't be a single pass, but 3-4 might do it.

I'm not suggesting that this is the best solution, but considering 30-50 miles to maybe get concentrate vs diy at the cost of time. If you're already in the area, its no prob, but a special trip makes me think about it's necessity and alternatives.

 

[Blacksmith1]

I usually do 1/2 to 1/3 concentrations when I do it. Depending on your straight juice amounts that can be variable.
One of my recipes is to freeze concentrate a gallon to one half and then add a half gallon straight juice. Makes a good cider, thinking about adding sugar to make a wine with it.

 

[Intheswamp]

So how much does it cost to pipe in the sunlight where you are?

You want that in Bitcoin or USD?

 

[Intheswamp]

I have looked in basically all of the coolers in the stores. Maybe we have some not-so-bright stockboys and I need to look on the shelves, too.<sigh> What I usually find are concentrates for lemonade, orange juice, and apple juice. Predominately lemonade and orange juice due to it maybe being more of a breakfast beverage or something? I did find some type of banana "blend" once at the nearest Publix. I haven't given up and will keep looking.

 

[Intheswamp]

I agree that adding h2o back is useless, but why would you add h2o unless you overshoot your gravity and need to dilute. Though I would probably use undiluted juice if I overshot.

Why not? I reduced 2 gal to a quart. Just takes several runs. Won't be a single pass, but 3-4 might do it.

I'm not suggesting that this is the best solution, but considering 30-50 miles to maybe get concentrate vs diy at the cost of time. If you're already in the area, its no prob, but a special trip makes me think about it's necessity and alternatives.

So, would that quart be more concentrated than a can of concentrate? Two gallons of juice will run $7 more or less. A can of concentrate makes 48oz of juice so it would require between 5 and 6 cans to equal two gallons of juice. I don't know how much a can of concentrate costs but I would imagine...$1.50-$2.00???? Looking at it that way it seems like the cost difference would pretty much be a washout. I'll see what I can find in Montgomery and go from there.

 

[Intheswamp]

And, yes, the distance to civilization(?) does work into the equation. I'm sure that I will eventually try the freeze concentrating.

 

[S-Met]

A quick web search of Welch's website...

There are 3 options, sugar(gram)/oz
Frozen concentrate 38g/2oz mix to 8oz
Canned concentrate 38g/2oz mix to 8oz
100% Juice 38g/8oz.

I can't tell you what the sugar content will be from freeze concentrating as it is variable, but use your hydrometer/refractometer to calculate.

 

[Blacksmith1]

Those numbers for the concentrate are after you add water. As they come they are much stronger.

 

[S-Met]

Those numbers for the concentrate are after you add water. As they come they are much stronger.

They are still 38g of sugar per 2oz - diluted or not. Divide by 2 and the concentrate is 19g per oz.

 

[Blacksmith1]

Gotcha. I had to read it again to get what you were saying.

 

[Intheswamp]

Ok, after visiting the Welch's Juice website a few times and seeing that the Welch's White Grape and Peach Concentrate was available at Kroger's Grocery stores in Auburn/Opelika, Alabama, my wife and I made a detour this past weekend coming home from a trip and stopped by a Kroger's in Opelika. Raining, dark, unfamiliar area, but we managed to get in and back out to the interstate. Naturally there was not a single can of any kind of Welch's Juice concentrate. Welch's and Krogers need to get their crap together...rather ticked me off as it was *very* inconvenient for us to go by there (could've been home 30 minutes earlier!). Ah well, scratch using concentrate...at least Welch's concentrate.