Wee Heavy Tastes Like Solvent, Now What

[kkimmes]

I am a newbie to All-grain brewing. I did my 4th batch the other day. I do not have an immersion chiller yet and I am still relying on the ice water in our laundry room sink for cooling the wort. I also just began learning the importance of using a yeast starter.

Long story short, I made a wee heavy about 8 weeks ago. The OG was 1.086. I was very happy about my OG given my rookie status with All-Grain.

Unfortunately, it took about 45 minutes to cool my wort and I only pitched on back of Wyeast into the wort. The LHBS was out of Scotch Ale Wyeast and they recommended I use the ESB Wyeast as they felt it was nearly the same.

I kegged the brew last week and it has very strong solvent notes and is almost undrinkable.

Do I leave it kegged for another 5 months and hope for the best or do I scrap this batch?

 

[keesh]

Well 2 months is pretty young, so I'd let it mature. The solvent-y properties will probably go away with time. For next time, you need a starter for a wort that big!

 

[Irrenarzt]

Sit on it. Time may resolve it somewhat.

 

[kkimmes]

For next time, you need a starter for a wort that big!

Lessoned learned, I have a stirplate mixing my starter as I type this.

 

[Gameface]

I am a newbie to All-grain brewing. I did my 4th batch the other day. I do not have an immersion chiller yet and I am still relying on the ice water in our laundry room sink for cooling the wort. I also just began learning the importance of using a yeast starter.

Long story short, I made a wee heavy about 8 weeks ago. The OG was 1.086. I was very happy about my OG given my rookie status with All-Grain.

Unfortunately, it took about 45 minutes to cool my wort and I only pitched on back of Wyeast into the wort. The LHBS was out of Scotch Ale Wyeast and they recommended I use the ESB Wyeast as they felt it was nearly the same.

I kegged the brew last week and it has very strong solvent notes and is almost undrinkable.

Do I leave it kegged for another 5 months and hope for the best or do I scrap this batch?

I make a lot of ESBs (pretty much 10g a month for the last few years). I just made my first Scottish Ale. Mine was an 80 shilling with an O.G. of 1.045 and I used the Wyeast Scottish Ale yeast.

Anyway, my point. I don't have it kegged and carbed yet but from the sample I can say that the Scottish Ale yeast made a big difference. The ingredients are very similar between it and the ESBs I make, but the Scottish has a slightly smokey aroma (I didn't use any smoked malt) that is NOT present in my ESBs. It's my understanding that this smokey character is the signature of a Scottish Ale and I don't think you'll get it from an ESB yeast.

 

[keesh]

Lessoned learned, I have a stirplate mixing my starter as I type this.

Good, make sure to aerate as much as possible as well (the only way to over-aerate is if you're using pure O2) and to regulate your fermentation temps. The latter is just as, if not more, important than pitching rates IMO.

 

[kkimmes]

I stir the heck out of my cooled wort using a sterlized whisk. I usually get a good response on the CO2 activity in the fermenter. My other all-grains have turned out really well, this is my first failure.
Also, I have a very nice cool basement and a temp gauge on my fermenter. I hold a very solid 66 F during fermenting.

 

[kkimmes]

Another note, my LHBS insisted that there would be no taste difference between the scotch ale yeast versus the ESB yeast. I trusted him, but question if I should have.

 

[Slipgate]

Scotch Ale yeast is tough. The only batch I ever gave away in its entirety was a Scotch Ale. Too bad you can't distill it.

 

[PapsD]

I'd say just wait. The flavor will improve in a few months.

I've brewed a few high gravity brews one had an OG of 1.086 and had a solvent/boozy flavor for 6 months. But was kegged after 2 months. and the other had an OG of 1.1 and had a distinct solvent/boozy flavor for about the first 4 months but was legged after a 1 month primary and 3 months in secondary @ fermentation temperatures. Both were made with US-05. But I pitched onto yeast cakes from a previous batch.

 

[Gameface]

Another note, my LHBS insisted that there would be no taste difference between the scotch ale yeast versus the ESB yeast. I trusted him, but question if I should have.

Both yeasts create malt forward beers with some esters and such.

As far as the advice your LHBS gave you, I'd say it's be like going ot the grocery store telling them you need turkey for thanksgiving and they tell you they don't have turkey but chicken is pretty much the same thing. Sure, they're sort of close, closer then steak vs turkey, but they aren't the same and will not provide the same results.

 

[Mongrel]

Yeah, you need a starter for a beer of this size if you're only pitching one pack. But, another issue I think you're facing is fermentation temperature, and here the difference in the yeast strains really comes into play. 1728 (low of 55°) can ferment a lot colder than the 1968 (low of 64°). The Scottish styles really benefit from a cold ferment, along with a lagering period.

 

[weirdboy]

Another note, my LHBS insisted that there would be no taste difference between the scotch ale yeast versus the ESB yeast. I trusted him, but question if I should have.

In addition to pitching a much higher amount of yeast (I would probably pitch a 2L starter) Scottish ales are typically fermented rather cool so they have a clean fermentation character...think high 50's or low 60's. If you are just letting this thing go at ambient temperatures, I can definitely see it building up some fusel alcohol character as well. But if you only pitched one or even two vials with no starter, that's going to be part of the problem as well. Really if you are pitching proper quantities and fermenting in the right range, I don't think an ESB yeast is going to give you that much of a different character to the beer. Not every Scottish ale (or wee heavy) has a smoky character; that is just some weird impression that people seem to be stuck on. The most important thing is the maltiness.

The good news is that the fusel does tend to fade over time. Stick that beer in the corner for a year or so and forget about it. Then when you come back it will taste better.


Also: An English ale yeast is perfectly capable of fermenting in the high 50's/low 60's without any trouble. I have done it many times. People get stuck on the numbers the yeast companies put on their packaging.

 

[Gameface]

In addition to pitching a much higher amount of yeast (I would probably pitch a 2L starter) Scottish ales are typically fermented rather cool so they have a clean fermentation character...think high 50's or low 60's. If you are just letting this thing go at ambient temperatures, I can definitely see it building up some fusel alcohol character as well. But if you only pitched one or even two vials with no starter, that's going to be part of the problem as well. Really if you are pitching proper quantities and fermenting in the right range, I don't think an ESB yeast is going to give you that much of a different character to the beer. Not every Scottish ale (or wee heavy) has a smoky character; that is just some weird impression that people seem to be stuck on. The most important thing is the maltiness.

The good news is that the fusel does tend to fade over time. Stick that beer in the corner for a year or so and forget about it. Then when you come back it will taste better.


Also: An English ale yeast is perfectly capable of fermenting in the high 50's/low 60's without any trouble. I have done it many times. People get stuck on the numbers the yeast companies put on their packaging.

My Scottish 80/- has a distinct smokey aroma. I added no smoked or peated malt. I fermented at 54F. None of my ESBs have the slightest hint of smokiness. I'm not stuck on smokiness but it seems to be a characteristic of the Scottish Ale yeast. At least for me it will be what differentiates this beer from my ESB.

 

[weirdboy]

My Scottish 80/- has a distinct smokey aroma. I added no smoked or peated malt. I fermented at 54F. None of my ESBs have the slightest hint of smokiness. I'm not stuck on smokiness but it seems to be a characteristic of the Scottish Ale yeast. At least for me it will be what differentiates this beer from my ESB.

I would assume the hops and bitterness levels are markedly different, too. Again, just to be clear I am not saying that Scottish ales shouldn't be smoky, I'm saying NOT ALL Scottish ales are smoky. It is not *the* distinguishing character of Scottish ales that many homebrewers make it out to be. They are stuck on that because they see the words "Scottish Ale Yeast" on the manufacturer's website, and somehow extrapolate that every ale in Scotland is fermented with that one strain.

 

[bja]

If by solvent, you mean paint thinner, dump it, it won't get any better. I made a stout that tasted like paint thinner and it never got any better even after a few months.

 

[kkimmes]

I wouldn't say it tastes like paint thinner, but it is has very strong alcohol tones.
I am bringing a sample to my homebrewing club this week to get their take, dump it or wait it out....l

 

[weirdboy]

It's just fusel alcohols. They will fade over time. I say stick it in the corner and forget about it for several months, then try it again.

 

[tedclev]

I agree with weirdboy; it's most likely just fusel from uncontrolled ferm temps. Let it sit at least 6 months and then get back to to it.

 

[JeepDiver]

It's just fusel alcohols. They will fade over time. I say stick it in the corner and forget about it for several months, then try it again.

In my experience fusels don't fade. Had a heffy that was fermented way too hot. A year latter it was still bad. Off flavors from the yeast will fade but the fusels aren't going anywhere

 

[weirdboy]

In my experience fusels don't fade. Had a heffy that was fermented way too hot. A year latter it was still bad. Off flavors from the yeast will fade but the fusels aren't going anywhere

OK, well we will just have to disagree then, because I have had several big beers where that stuff smoothed out nicely over time.

 

[JeepDiver]

OK, well we will just have to disagree then, because I have had several big beers where that stuff smoothed out nicely over time.

Maybe they do, not sure, but there is a difference in a hot alcohol taste, vs fusels. The hottness will fade over time.

 

[weirdboy]

but there is a difference in a hot alcohol taste, vs fusels

Everything I have ever studied on the subject says hot alcohol is from fusels. Please point me to a credible source that says otherwise.

 

[Irrenarzt]

Fusels definitely do not fade. Hot alcohol character will fade in time, but fusel is something that will never go away unless you distill or pass the beer through an activated carbon column.

 

[Irrenarzt]

I do not think hot alcohol and fusels are the same flavor. I do not have a source but I think they are separate as I have had beers that taste hot but do not taste fusel-ey...

I brewed an IPA once that got out of control during fermentation so I know what fusels are like. Awful flavor profile. I can't have a beer that has any fusels without nearly gagging anymore but I judged barleywines recently and had a few examples that were hot but not fuseled.

 

[JeepDiver]

I do not think hot alcohol and fusels are the same flavor. I do not have a source but I think they are separate as I have had beers that taste hot but do not taste fusel-ey...

I brewed an IPA once that got out of control during fermentation so I know what fusels are like. Awful flavor profile. I can't have a beer that has any fusels without nearly gagging anymore but I judged barleywines recently and had a few examples that were hot but not fuseled.

Also fusels will give me an almost instant headache. On mobile so can't get a source but fusels have a different molecular structure than ethnaol

 

[tedclev]

Basically, this is a question of degree... How bad is it? It could be just young hotness, or it could be fusels. If it's just young, then aging will definitely take care of it. If fusels, it is a matter of how fuselly? Mild fusels are worth aging out; they can deteriorate into esters via (R1)OH + (R2)COOH ---> (R2)COO(R1) + H2O. However, the beer in which this occurs will make a difference- how acidic is it? are there yeast or enzymes available? And it's a very very very slow process.

I can specifically recall a Belgain Quad that I let get out of control and it ended up with some higher fusel alcohols. It would pretty much give me a headache after one or two. I bottled it and let it bottle condition. Two years later, delicious, and no more headache. NOTE!!!!, however, that it was not intolerable to begin with. If I had a $hit ton of fusels and it tasted like paint thinner, I would have just dumped it, or used it to kill weeds

 

[iambeer]

If I had a $hit ton of fusels and it tasted like paint thinner, I would have just dumped it, or used it to kill weeds

Yeah-huh.. Or like, rooting out unsightly holes in the golf course. In the immortal words of Jean Paul Sartre, au revoir, gopher.

 

[anokiernan]

In my limited experience, Wee Heavy's benefit tremendously from the aging process. My drank my first batch of Wee Heavy over the course of about 9 months (roughly 13 months from brew day). The flavor profile changed radically throughout that time period, constantly becoming more smooth the older that it became. As others have said I would bottle/keg it and let it age atleast 2 months after it has left the carboy. Usually my Wee Heavy's have been roughly 3 weeks in primary and 2 months in secondary, then another 6 weeks minimum in bottles/kegs. It's well worth the wait

 

[kkimmes]

WOW WOW WOW
This is my first experience in long aging and a complete change in beer.

When I originally started this thread, it was after 8 weeks of aging my Wee Heavy and it was still undrinkable.

I had some today and it was awesome. Complete change in flavor profile. Very sweet with a hint of alcohol (what I would expect a wee heavy to taste like).

Thanks to everyone that convinced me to hang on and see how it ages. I am happy about how it ended up.

Cheers!!
Kevin