We no need no stinking beer gun...

[ba-brewer]

This may have been covered in the 132 pages but I noticed in a separate (pro-beer gun) thread, that this method might cause issues with high pressure beers...

Now here's the issue. I make a lot of berliner Weiss treatments that I keep at high psi (16-18). The other thread I mentioned suggests that this method may not be a good option for high pressure styles. What say you all?

Might be helpful to state the issue or include a link to the other thread.

I would think this method of bottle filling would preserve more carbonation then the blickman style beer gun as the back pressure helps to keep the carbonation in solution. Just get the beer and bottles real cold(freeze them) and take your time doing the transfer, bottle as soon as filled.

I dont know your storage temp so I dont know what the (16-18)psi pressure translate to volumes of CO2 but that might be close to the limit of a standard bottle.

 

[BrianDorry55]

Might be helpful to state the issue or include a link to the other thread.

I would think this method of bottle filling would preserve more carbonation then the blickman style beer gun as the back pressure helps to keep the carbonation in solution. Just get the beer and bottles real cold(freeze them) and take your time doing the transfer, bottle as soon as filled.

I dont know your storage temp so I dont know what the (16-18)psi pressure translate to volumes of CO2 but that might be close to the limit of a standard bottle.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=126884&page=4

That is the thread I was referring to. There are a couple of people who mentioned issues with high carb beers. One of them mentioned that its really difficult to bottle anything over 3 volumes on the homebrew level. I'm not sure how to convert psi to volumes, but I don't think many beers are carbed above 16-18 psi - I keep mine at about 35 degrees. I was thinking it might be hard to do without them gushing everywhere when opened for judging.

I guess the only thing I can do is try. I was just trying to determine if bottling beers that are high carbonation is going to doable at home or if I need to connect with a local brewery to use their equipment to get my beer out to competition.

Thanks for the help.

 

[TexasWine]

I was just trying to determine if bottling beers that are high carbonation is going to doable at home

It's very doable. Just bottle condition those highly carbonated beers.

Also, you should look at lengthening your liquid line on the beer gun, from 10 feet to maybe 20 feet. This will allow you to maintain a higher pressure on the keg as you bottle, and should reduce foaming in the bottle.

 

[ba-brewer]

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=126884&page=4

That is the thread I was referring to. There are a couple of people who mentioned issues with high carb beers. One of them mentioned that its really difficult to bottle anything over 3 volumes on the homebrew level. I'm not sure how to convert psi to volumes, but I don't think many beers are carbed above 16-18 psi - I keep mine at about 35 degrees. I was thinking it might be hard to do without them gushing everywhere when opened for judging.

I guess the only thing I can do is try. I was just trying to determine if bottling beers that are high carbonation is going to doable at home or if I need to connect with a local brewery to use their equipment to get my beer out to competition.

Thanks for the help.

http://www.kegerators.com/carbonation-table.php

18psi @ 35F gives about 3.3volumes. I looked once to see how much pressure a standard 12oz bottle could take and it seemed most people felt 3 volumes was the upper limit. Above that level heavy duty belgian style bottles where recommended. I dont know if this just for naturally carbonated beers or also forced carbed and transferred one too.

If you use an appropriate bottle I think you should be able to fill from the keg. I serve all of my beer at about 2.5volumes as I only have a single regulator, but I did goose up a couple close to 3volumes for a contest and they seemed to do OK.

One thing that happens to me with transferred bottles is that they dont make a big hiss on opening, but they are still carbonated correctly. That can confuse some people in thinking the bottle/beer is flat.

 

[BierMuncher]

Now here's the issue. I make a lot of berliner Weiss treatments that I keep at high psi (16-18). The other thread I mentioned suggests that this method may not be a good option for high pressure styles. What say you all?

A few things that helped my carbonation scores on the higher carb'd beers.

• Chill, but don't freeze the bottles. Frosty bottles are like frosty mugs and in my experience tend foster foamy transfers.
• I also give my cold bottles a quick cold water rinse. The water tends to "lube" the inner walls of the bottle and this made a big difference in preserving carbonation.
• I find with each bottling session, the first 4-5 bottles are the foamiest. Once the line is chilled and the beer flowing, things settle down. For this reason I count on submitting the latter bottles into any comp I may be entering.
• And finally, I will bottle higher carb'd beers several weeks in advance of a comp and allow them to sit at room (71 degrees) temp for a week or two and allow any residual sugars to ferment and put that little extra pop in the beer.

These are things that helped me at least.

 

[BrianDorry55]

Thanks for those tips BierMuncher! Have you been alright using standard bottles for bottling beers at this volume?

@ Ba-Brewer, thanks for that information. Maybe I'll just need to bite the bullet and buy some belgian 375's for competitions to be safe.

 

[Bacon488]

I have bottled beers carbonated into the 3+ volumes range using this method. I do everything BierMuncher said, basically*, and I also keep the stopper in the bottle neck pretty tight. I fill until the counterpressure stops the flow, then veeeeeeeery slightly crack the stopper with my thumb so the bottles fill really slowly. I stop when there's beer (not foam) spilling out the top. Wastes a tiny amount but a small price to pay. I haven't had any carbonation problems that way. Standard 12 oz bottles.

* Instead of a cold water rinse my bottles get a couple squirts of Star-San swished around, which I dump out immediately before each bottle gets filled.

 

[Justin4444]

Has anyone else had any issues with #2 stopper being too small? Tried this method for the first time recently and #2 kept falling in bottle. Also, racking cane was not very tight in stopper.

 

[user 141939]

Has anyone else had any issues with #2 stopper being too small? Tried this method for the first time recently and #2 kept falling in bottle. Also, racking cane was not very tight in stopper.

I had issues with the #2 stopper I bought from LHBS with the racking cane not being tight. I bought one online and it fit better. I think depending on who makes them the holes might be different?

 

[cod3ck]

This method has worked great for me --

Only issue I had is I would run into carb issues since my taps are flow control which lets me cheat a little bit on the beer line length. This hack consequently falls through when I have to connect the picnic tap directly to the keg...

Then I found this:

https://www.williamsbrewing.com/INTERTAP-BALL-LOCK-ADAPTER--P4215.aspx

Problem solved!

 

[qldaussie]

Sorry my ignorance but what is the reason of the bottle lock plug?

 

[Bacon488]

Sorry my ignorance but what is the reason of the bottle lock plug?

It keeps the pressure up in the bottle to prevent foaming. More of a problem with higher carbonation. Without a stopper, you can just accept some foam and stop filling after the foam overflows. But that just wastes perfectly good beer.

 

[TANSTAAFB]

Since I didn't get a beer gun for Christmas it looks like I'm trying the no stinking beer gun method this weekend for a club competition. Without reading through the entire thread are there any updates/ modifications/ tricks etc to add to @BierMuncher 's original post?

 

[ba-brewer]

Yes, the step in the first post will do the trick. Look up a few post for his latest comments.

I cap as soon as I fill one instead of waiting until the end. If you get a lot of foam at first wait a little bit to allow pressure to push it down to save on wasted beer.

 

[TANSTAAFB]

Thank you sir! I use swing tops so I'll cap immediately. I think I'll flush bottles with co2 as well...I figured out a bottle filler wand attached to my co2 line holds pressure and I can just move it to the next bottle while I fill the one I just flushed[emoji16]

 

[TANSTAAFB]

Bottled about 2 cases off 3 kegs. Successful and learned a few things. I used 2 different bottling wands-the gravity type and the spring type w/ tip and spring removed as suggested by my LHBS owner. Mixed success but I think it had to do more w/ carbonation levels of the kegged beer than the wand or length of the beverage tubing. My stout bottled beautifully at perfect carbonation, turned down to 4psi and keg purged. My Amber was a little overcarbed and gave me the most foaming problems. I think I'll just use the spring loaded wand w/ spring removed. It does drain out but doesn't cause extra foaming.
The #2 stopper leaked around the wand which was ok for the stout, just filled nice and slow. For the Amber it prevented me from using the pressure to reduce head in the bottle. I tried a very short line--ball lock, 6-8" line, picnic tap--and a longer line--ball lock, 5' line, picnic tap--and didn't really notice any change in foaming but the longer line was easier to manage. Lots of dripping/ leaking, nothing a pitcher and a few towels couldn't handle, but overall successful.
Bottling is a PITA, whether from the bottling bucket or from the keg [emoji6]

 

[divrack]

Thanks. I don't notice more or less foam without the stopper. Again, that's given a chilled bottle, long output tubing, and low psi during bottle fills.

I thought that the stopper may have contained the (IPA) hop aroma during a bottle fill, but that didn't make much sense since the stopper is removed to cap the bottle anyhow.

Foaming equates to escaped CO2. Would the stopper make that small difference in keeping CO2 contained in the beer?

im pretty sure all these questions have been answered a billion times but for what its worth... i made something similar back when i had only a short length of hose and it was pretty much impossible to keep fizz while bottling, and it worked good with a bit of finesse. however now ive got a real long hose on the tap and so long as its reasonably cool and youve just rinsed the bottles youre filling it works pretty much fine just filling from the tap, unless youre doing something at like 3 vols. for ale and stuff its fine from the tap.
however it gets a bit long if youre doing a lot of bottles waiting for them all to fill at low psi so sometimes i use the wand and fill at high pressure and despite a bit of beer to the face sometimes it works nice and you can do it quicker, which is good when youre standing out in the shed in winter with freezing nuts

 

[TANSTAAFB]

Just installed my Intertap tower. The ball lock adapter makes bottling a breeze!

 

[Nebraskan]

Very similar to this guy (German) and he and I use a Soda Stream to purge the air out of the bottle.


Long hose is better at reducing foam?

I also have a ball lock to ball lock that goes with my Carbonator that fits pop bottles. You can buy 500 ml beer PET bottles and per-pressurize them with about 15 psi and then attach to your keg. Open the Carbonator slightly from the bottle (and also put on a small length of hose to reach the bottom of the bottle), and it will equalize and then start filling. keep it slow. At the end, when the beer is at the top of the bottle merely tighten the Carbonator back on the bottle, and pull the ball lock off and the Carbonator has a built in spring, like the kegs, and keep the beer at that pressure. Then, all you need to do is remove the Carbonator and replace with a screw on cap and get on with bottling the next. PET bottles have a burst pressure of 150 psi, so my gauges don't even go that high.

 

[BobBailey]

Here's a proven method for bottling your beer from the keg without an expensive beergun. I've been doing this for over a year and bottled dozens of cases this way. Every beer I've ever entered into a competition has received consistently high scores for carbonation.

Go ahead and keg the entire batch and get it to your desired carbonation.

To do this, you'll need a liquid hose with a picnic (cheap plastic) tap attached. The longer the liquid hose the better. I use about 7 feet. This provides adequate pressure to prevent foaming. The end of a racking cane fits very snuggly into the picnic tap nozzle. (Make sure the cane is pushed all the way into the nozzle of the tap) Go to your local HBS and buy a drilled stopper (I think it is a #2) that will fit over the other end of your racking cane. The end tip of the racking cane should be cut at an angle to allow free flow of the beer.

You now have a racking cane extending from your picnic tap with a stopper about midway up the cane. The idea is that this racking will go to the bottom of your bottle and the stopper will slide down snug onto the neck of the bottle.

It will help to chill your bottles ahead of time. Giving them a quick rinse in cold water will also keep foaming down. Recently, I've taken to just rinsing the bottels and have zero foaming problems.

Now follow these simple steps:

1. Shut off the gas to your keg momentarily and open the (keg) relief valve to bleed excess pressure from the the keg.
2. Turn the PSI on your regulator down to about 5. This needs to be a slow gentle process.
3. Go ahead and open the tap and drain some beer into a waste bucket. This will prime and cool the lines.
4. Now place the bottle filler into the bottle with the stopper pushed down snug onto the bottle neck. Open the picnic tap to the locked position.
5. The bottle will begin filling but slow to a stop as the pressure builds
6. Gently push the side of the stopper to allow the pressure to "burp" out of the bottle and the beer will begin to flow again.
7. Continue the fill until beer (not just foam) begins overflowing and turn off the tap.
8. Quickly move the rig to the next bottle and repeat.
9. When all the bottles are full, give each one a quick "burst" of beer from the tap to top off.
10. Move the bottles to your capping bench and place a cap on each bottle.
11. Before locking down the cap on each bottles...tip the bottle on its side and back (holding the cap on with your finger of course). This will cause the beer to begin to foam.
12. Place the capper on the cap loosely and as soon as the foam begins to overflow...lock down the cap.

This last step is important because capping on foam means you've purged the oxygen from the bottle and it will store much longer.

It will help to contain the mess if you load all of the bottles into a short five gallon bucket. I can usually fit about 13-15 bottles into one.

It sounds more complicated than it actually is. Very easy and you can get a sixer filled in about 5 minutes. Move the bottles to a fridge and open when ready. I just opened a porter this afternoon that I bottled this way about ten days ago and it was perfect.

From here on, I will keg everything and bottle off a twelve pack or so for keepsake and travel.


I recently (10/14/07) openned another Porter from my March bottling session and it was still just perfect. Nice puff of CO2 cloud in the neck of the bottle. Good foaming action during pour. Good thick head...and the beer laced nicely all the way through.

Notice the angled cut of the racking cane. Very important.
View attachment 2953

View attachment 2954

View attachment 2955

View attachment 2956

I disagree with your step 3. It should read in part, "drain some beer into a glass and drink"

 

[Rake_Rocko]

Hey guys, I stupidly started a new thread when I probably should have just posted my question here. Simply put, is this a viable method for bottling when you do it all at room temp? Carb at room temp, and fill at room temp. In other words, at no point in the process would any beer be refrigerated until after it is bottled. Anyone do this or even try it?

 

[geoffm33]

Hey guys, I stupidly started a new thread when I probably should have just posted my question here. Simply put, is this a viable method for bottling when you do it all at room temp? Carb at room temp, and fill at room temp. In other words, at no point in the process would any beer be refrigerated until after it is bottled. Anyone do this or even try it?

It would foam like crazy at room temperature.

 

[JDXX1971]

I disagree with your step 3. It should read in part, "drain some beer into a glass and drink"

This is what I do, also when I switch from one brew to the next when bottling. So I guess I should change my name to "Waste Bucket".

 

[Hondor06]

vintage shop #2 stoppers do not fit bottles such as sierra Nevada, bells, founders but fit bottles such as maine beer company and wicked weed. what size/brand fits the aforementioned bottles as that is my vast majority?!

 

[Hondor06]

I had issues with the #2 stopper I bought from LHBS with the racking cane not being tight. I bought one online and it fit better. I think depending on who makes them the holes might be different?

what/where did u end up purchasing. I am having the same issue

 

[seatazzz]

I just tried out my BMBF on three bottles of my APA. Got two good ones and the last one not so much. Put them in the fridge and will check the carbonation in a week. Instead of a racking cane I'm using my very first bottle filler (no valve) pushed into my picnic tap, with a standard #2 bung. Cut the end into an angle as well, that helped a lot with foaming. This beer is probably at 2.5 vol of carb like all of my beers. Was very easy to do and minimal mess. The beer I'm hoping to enter in a competition is almost done force carbing, if I can keep my hands (and mouth) off it will bottle three in a week for submission. Thanks Biermuncher for the great idea!!

 

[jmcquesten]

#3 stoppers fit a lot tighter in a bottle. If the #2 goes too far in, try a #3. Also, you can get a tighter fit by using a solid stopper and boring a hole in it (drilling rubber stoppers doesn't work well).

 

[Sbe2]

I did four bottles using a picnic tap and 4’ of line off a keg. I bled the pressure down to 4 psi and bottled. It went very smooth, no foaming at all. I just cracked open a bottle and the beer was kinda flat, I couldn’t get a head on it no matter the pour. So I diceided to bottle it again at serving pressure (12 psi) and got wicked foaming when I pulled the wand out to cap leaving a lot of headspace in the bottle. My bottles have been pre chilled and dunked in star San before filling.

My question is what pressure are u all at when bottling?

 

[mongoose33]

Did you try the beer when you were bottling it? Even though you bled off pressure, it should have remained almost fully carbonated, no different than when you pour a beer to drink.

So maybe it wasn't really carbed at 12psi? Or maybe you didn't have a good seal on the bottle?

 

[ba-brewer]

I started with lower pressure then moved to serving pressure after forgetting to change the pressure back a couple time.

I think it is common to loose a carbonation level with this process but it should not be flat. You can get more aggressive with the pour to get more head as there is no sediment.

I have also had good luck without chilling the bottle using serving pressure, just go slow while filling.

 

[BobBailey]

I did four bottles using a picnic tap and 4’ of line off a keg. I bled the pressure down to 4 psi and bottled. It went very smooth, no foaming at all. I just cracked open a bottle and the beer was kinda flat, I couldn’t get a head on it no matter the pour. So I diceided to bottle it again at serving pressure (12 psi) and got wicked foaming when I pulled the wand out to cap leaving a lot of headspace in the bottle. My bottles have been pre chilled and dunked in star San before filling.

My question is what pressure are u all at when bottling?

I bottle at about 4 psi using a similar setup, but always chill the bottles well and pull a pint before bottling. The pint cools the lines and faucet and greatly reduces the amount of CO2 that comes out of solution in the process. If you know in advance that you will be bottling some, you can also over carb the beer a bit as insurance.

 

[Sbe2]

The beer has been fine, it’s been at 12 psi for three weeks after it was force carbed. It pours great off of the keg. My setup as of now is picnic taps on the kegs which I keep in the keezer at all times, so I would think the picnic tap lines are the same temp as the beer.

I would not say the beer was flat per say, but not as carbonated as on tap. I cranked up the regulator to 7 psi and bottled, then 12 psi and bottled. I didn’t lose any beer on the 7, but the 12 was foamy. Hopefully I can figure it out before my big fishing trip this weekend.

 

[jmcquesten]

I did four bottles using a picnic tap and 4’ of line off a keg. I bled the pressure down to 4 psi and bottled. It went very smooth, no foaming at all. I just cracked open a bottle and the beer was kinda flat, I couldn’t get a head on it no matter the pour. So I diceided to bottle it again at serving pressure (12 psi) and got wicked foaming when I pulled the wand out to cap leaving a lot of headspace in the bottle. My bottles have been pre chilled and dunked in star San before filling.

My question is what pressure are u all at when bottling?

I bottle at serving pressure (12 to 16 psi), but I built a counterpressure bottle filler in order to accomplish this.

The original method works ok, but I don't know that it will ever give you as good a quality bottled beer, with as good a shelf life as a co2 purged, counterpressure filled bottle. I'm sure there are plenty of people that have decent luck with it, but it won't get you the best bottled beer possible. Dropping dispensing pressure and releasing keg pressure are both contributing to the low carbonation in the bottled beer.

Here's my solution.

 

[Sbe2]

I bottle at serving pressure (12 to 16 psi), but I built a counterpressure bottle filler in order to accomplish this.

The original method works ok, but I don't know that it will ever give you as good a quality bottled beer, with as good a shelf life as a co2 purged, counterpressure filled bottle. I'm sure there are plenty of people that have decent luck with it, but it won't get you the best bottled beer possible. Dropping dispensing pressure and releasing keg pressure are both contributing to the low carbonation in the bottled beer.

Here's my solution. View attachment 573571

Wow, very nice. If I were to go back to bottling I would definitely invest some more time in making a beer gun. I am not too concerned about the whole process as I will be drinking the case that I bottle within a week.

 

[jmcquesten]

Wow, very nice. If I were to go back to bottling I would definitely invest some more time in making a beer gun. I am not too concerned about the whole process as I will be drinking the case that I bottle within a week.

I don't bottle very much, but for the occasional competition or to empty a keg to make room for a new one, it's nice to have. I have an actual BeerGun too, but it just sits in the box.

 

[jmcquesten]

The beer has been fine, it’s been at 12 psi for three weeks after it was force carbed. It pours great off of the keg. My setup as of now is picnic taps on the kegs which I keep in the keezer at all times, so I would think the picnic tap lines are the same temp as the beer.

I would not say the beer was flat per say, but not as carbonated as on tap. I cranked up the regulator to 7 psi and bottled, then 12 psi and bottled. I didn’t lose any beer on the 7, but the 12 was foamy. Hopefully I can figure it out before my big fishing trip this weekend.

If you're using picnic taps already, there's a pretty easy fix but most people don't like hearing it... LONG beer line. And the longer the better. I don't know what length lines you're using for your system, but I'd use a longer one for bottling. This was how I got the best results with the beergun when I used it. If you can get a 20 ft piece of 3/16 beer line, use the whole length. DO NOT release the pressure in keg and DO NOT lower the pressure on regulator. The 20 ft will slow down the flow enough to eliminate most of the foam when filling. The pressure should remain at serving pressure to keep the co2 IN the beer rather than allowing it to rush out of solution (like when releasing keg prv). The long line will slow the flow causing it to take longer to fill the bottles (a few seconds), so be patient with that.

 

[tmendick]

If you're using picnic taps already, there's a pretty easy fix but most people don't like hearing it... LONG beer line. And the longer the better. I don't know what length lines you're using for your system, but I'd use a longer one for bottling. This was how I got the best results with the beergun when I used it. If you can get a 20 ft piece of 3/16 beer line, use the whole length. DO NOT release the pressure in keg and DO NOT lower the pressure on regulator. The 20 ft will slow down the flow enough to eliminate most of the foam when filling. The pressure should remain at serving pressure to keep the co2 IN the beer rather than allowing it to rush out of solution (like when releasing keg prv). The long line will slow the flow causing it to take longer to fill the bottles (a few seconds), so be patient with that.

Won't having too long of a line put beer out of solution due to the level of restriction? I have a 5ft line with a hollow bung that fits over the bottle rim. I've had a 42 point cider that took first in a comp over a year after I bottled (with this method) and stored at cellar/room temp for that time.

 

[jmcquesten]

Won't having too long of a line put beer out of solution due to the level of restriction? I have a 5ft line with a hollow bung that fits over the bottle rim. I've had a 42 point cider that took first in a comp over a year after I bottled (with this method) and stored at cellar/room temp for that time.

Not in my experience. Longer lines just slows down the flow. I guess if you went crazy with the length (and didn't increase pressure), you could have so much restriction that it wouldn't flow at all. But that wouldn't happen with 12 psi and 20 ft of line. After starting with 20 ft, the line could be shortened if desired but if there happened to be a 16 psi wheat beer down the road, you'd want that line back. If 20 ft is too ridiculous, go with 15.

This is based on the well known keg line balancing calculator, http://www.mikesoltys.com/2012/09/17/determining-proper-hose-length-for-your-kegerator/, and then adding a little to compensate for bottling vs filling a pint glass and planning for future higher carbonated beers.

 

[Sbe2]

15 psi on the left, 7 psi on the right. Looks like 7 psi wins for me.

 

[jmcquesten]

View attachment 573743 15 psi on the left, 7 psi on the right. Looks like 7 psi wins for me.

Are those from bottles?