We have beer!

[Michele Craft]

Hi all,

Thanks to all the help from great, knowledgeable people here, I now have Sam Porch Rocker on draft at home.

I'll post a keezer build picture when it's totally complete but for now some quick pictures. I have to do the trim to cover the pocket holes and paint the bolts in the floor flanges for the tap but we poured our first beer tonite!

We used Eva lines and I have them at 10' long with 10psi. I know that's long for Eva and I'm debating between leaving them a bit long like this or raising the pressure just a hair. Pour was about 8 to 10 seconds and we're in no hurry. Had a nice head when I poured it, just under 2 fingers. Inkbird is set to 38F with a 2F differential. A few minutes after pouring I had 44F in the cup and that was in a warm garage with no AC and no fan in the keezer yet. We put foam pipe insulation up in rhe legs of the tower and then 1" copper in that with the copper dropping down into the keezer body to act as a heat sink and it seems to work. No insulation in the horizontal piece of the tower at all. Faucet actually had condensation on it after 3 pours. I'm going to pour tomorrow morning to see how it is. First pour did have a lot of foam that settled out but I don't know if that's because of temp or just the first run thru after I cleared the bit of rinse water out from sanitizing the lines. Didnt realize how much the faucets had to be tightened down. Had a bit of dripping from the front "nut" but I cranked it down a bit with the tap wrench and all was good.

All in all I think it's a success. I have a hefeweissen from a local brewery coming Thursday too.

 

[day_trippr]

Very nice job - that is one hella handsome system
Do not "raise pressure" to compensate for excessive line length, just trim the lines down: maybe lop off a foot a week until you get close to 6 feet like the rest of us I have no problem taking 10 seconds for a 12 ounce pour with a finger of head as I know it'll do it consistently year 'round no matter what the ambient temperature is...,

Cheers!

 

[DuncB]

Nice job

What a relief before I enlarged the thumbnail to see that red cup I thought you'd poured some red cherryade to christen the kegerator.

 

[day_trippr]

I just realized what those contrasting "darts" on the top deck are. As a huge fan and major user of the Kreg System I like it

Cheers!

 

[Michele Craft]

Do not "raise pressure" to compensate for excessive line length, just trim the lines down: maybe lop off a foot a week until you get close to 6 feet like the rest of us I have no problem taking 10 seconds for a 12 ounce pour with a finger of head as I know it'll do it consistently year 'round no matter what the ambient temperature is...,

I'd really like to just take 3 or 4 feet off in one shot if but nothing else to help control "stuff" in the cabinet since I have the copper pipes coming down from the tower plus water and drain lines for the drip tray and then I could use that overage for the other gas lines I'll need but don't have the guts to do it. Maybe I'll do it bit by bit on this first keg before I just whack the other 3. That way I could "test" like was suggested to me in another thread. Definitely want to figure out a better pump system so I can clean 4 lines at once if at all possible VS the recirc one by one. Albeit at 20 minutes per line it's not the worst thing ever but then the rehooking up for the rinse etc. Series or parallel doesn't much matter to me. Just things to figure out as I go but all the great tips here help a ton.

As a huge fan and major user of the Kreg System I like it

Everything including the rolling dolly is built with kreg screws except the 1/4" panels, I just shot those in the the air nailer. Trim will go on with wood glue and maybe a few brads but hoping to not need those.

 

[Michele Craft]

Did a test pour this morning after it sat all nite. Cooler set at 38, reading 38.8, poured a16oz solo cup in 14 or 15 seconds to 43.3 degrees and had about a finger of head but it almost dissipated too quickly for my liking. I think I'll take 2' off the lines to start and then dial it in. I can't believe I'm saying this but I'd like a little more foam lol! But I don't even have a fan running in there yet and it seems like the taps will stay sufficiently cool even on first pour as eventually the keezer will be in our basement which runs about 65 degrees all the time vs the garage right now for this weekend's use at 67 degrees and more humid so a good test of conditions.

Kind of weird to be drinking a full beer at 8:30 in the morning but I wasn't about to waste it!

 

[DuncB]

It wouldn't keep that's for sure, don't make a habit of it though!

 

[Michele Craft]

It wouldn't keep that's for sure, don't make a habit of it though!

I absolutely love that I can have beer on draft but it doesn't have to be a full one like you get at a bar. Sometimes I just want 8oz or so. This is awesome!

 

[DuncB]

I put my first batch or two in bottles and then got some kegs. Spent ages with them in the cool room / cellar and a party tap and flow reducing ball lock.
Dawned on me I was making good beer served bad. Got myself a great keg fridge and realised beer even better than I thought before.
Difficult to reseal a pint bottle but the tap can close after a tablespoon.
I still think to myself this is brilliant when I pour a beer.
Adding the nitro pour for the stouts has been great as well, that feels like real luxury.

 

[Michele Craft]

I put my first batch or two in bottles and then got some kegs. Spent ages with them in the cool room / cellar and a party tap and flow reducing ball lock.
Dawned on me I was making good beer served bad. Got myself a great keg fridge and realised beer even better than I thought before.
Difficult to reseal a pint bottle but the tap can close after a tablespoon.
I still think to myself this is brilliant when I pour a beer.
Adding the nitro pour for the stouts has been great as well, that feels like real luxury.

I don't do any brewing tho I have a few friends that do so they can bring their stuff over since I have ball lock posts on my keg couplers/lines so I'm set to attach to them quickly.

I'd like to get Guiness on draft (we have a big St. Patrick's day party) but I'm not sure what all is involved in that. Different tap I know and then what mix of co2/nitrogen do you use? I could always just run that to one manifold and have my other manifold (I went with 2 manifolds, 3 posts each for flexibility) be the nitrogen one.

 

[DuncB]

Other stouts are available!

Normally 30 / 70 mix of CO2 and Nitrogen.

The stout should be carbed quite low about 1.4 vols, this means the regulator is about 30 + psi ( ie 9 psi of CO2 and the rest is nitrogen ).
You need separate regulator and line for this, can't quite tell if you have intertaps / nukataps or perlicks.
Nuka and inter you can just take spout off and put a stout spout on.
Bit more expense but I like the effect.
Other option I'd seriously consider would be from this company
https://nitrobrew.com/
in the long run this would pay for itself as no consumables. Not that easy for me to get my hands on one in NZ though.

 

[Michele Craft]

Thanks for that info. There definitely are other stouts, but for St. Patrick's day (which is a month long event for me), it's got to be Murphy's or Guinness lol! We have Perlick taps so it'd be a tap change but that's easy enough. The welding place I got the co2 from mentioned they can do the 30/70 or 40/60 and it can be the same type of tank but you need an adapter for it. Since I have the two manifolds, I'm assuming I can use one of them as it exists to just connect to the mixed bottle? No reason not to be able to use the 4mm EVA line I have, or is there some different kind of line needed?

 

[Dr_Jeff]

the eva will work just fine

 

[DuncB]

@Michele Craft
It depends, my gas place puts the 30/70 mix in a CO2 cylinder so I just use a normal CO2 regulator. Otherwise different regulator or stem change or adapter.
The EVA line is the best. Do you mean two regulators, a manifold splits up one gas supply so you couldn't have two different gases going into that.
Plenty of advice and previous threads on here to set up Nitro when you get round to it.

 

[Yooper]

Did a test pour this morning after it sat all nite. Cooler set at 38, reading 38.8, poured a16oz solo cup in 14 or 15 seconds to 43.3 degrees and had about a finger of head but it almost dissipated too quickly for my liking. I think I'll take 2' off the lines to start and then dial it in. I can't believe I'm saying this but I'd like a little more foam lol! But I don't even have a fan running in there yet and it seems like the taps will stay sufficiently cool even on first pour as eventually the keezer will be in our basement which runs about 65 degrees all the time vs the garage right now for this weekend's use at 67 degrees and more humid so a good test of conditions.

Kind of weird to be drinking a full beer at 8:30 in the morning but I wasn't about to waste it!

What's the psi set at, at 38.8 degrees? My first thought is to raise pressure slightly, and NOT shorten the lines. I use 1" of line for every psi on the regulator for great pours, at 39 degrees.

 

[Michele Craft]

@Michele Craft
It depends, my gas place puts the 30/70 mix in a CO2 cylinder so I just use a normal CO2 regulator. Otherwise different regulator or stem change or adapter.
The EVA line is the best. Do you mean two regulators, a manifold splits up one gas supply so you couldn't have two different gases going into that.
Plenty of advice and previous threads on here to set up Nitro when you get round to it.

Yeah the place mentioned that a regular co2 tank would just need an adapter, I believe because a nitro regulator has different threads than a co2 regulator. I have a dual body regular and 2 manifolds. So one tank, but I can set two different pressures and go to different manifolds. I did it this way in case I had say a wheat beer on with an ale or a lager in the mix because as I understand it wheat beers are in the 15 - 20psi range and lagers are slightly higher than ales so it gave me flexibility. With nitro on, I'd need a separate tank and regulator and then just go to one of my existing manifolds.

What's the psi set at, at 38.8 degrees? My first thought is to raise pressure slightly, and NOT shorten the lines. I use 1" of line for every psi on the regulator for great pours, at 39 degrees.

Set to right about 10. I'm assuming you mean 1 foot of line for every psi, not 1 inch? Since these are EVA lines, I believe that 1' / psi doesn't come into play as much from what I've read here. I am going to take my inkbird down to 37F vs 38F just to get it closer to 40 at the tap

 

[Yooper]

Yeah the place mentioned that a regular co2 tank would just need an adapter, I believe because a nitro regulator has different threads than a co2 regulator. I have a dual body regular and 2 manifolds. So one tank, but I can set two different pressures and go to different manifolds. I did it this way in case I had say a wheat beer on with an ale or a lager in the mix because as I understand it wheat beers are in the 15 - 20psi range and lagers are slightly higher than ales so it gave me flexibility. With nitro on, I'd need a separate tank and regulator and then just go to one of my existing manifolds.


Set to right about 10. I'm assuming you mean 1 foot of line for every psi, not 1 inch? Since these are EVA lines, I believe that 1' / psi doesn't come into play as much from what I've read here. I am going to take my inkbird down to 37F vs 38F just to get it closer to 40 at the tap

I'm using 1' (yes, foot, sorry!) but they are EVA lines. The worst thing that can happen if they are "too long" is a slower pour. A too short line can cause the co2 to come out of solution and give foam, but a seemingly undercarbonated liquid. so, it's quite literally a balancing act. The last thing I'd do is shorten the lines, after trying other things. Mine is at 12 psi, and I have 15' lines on a couple of them. If you ever have a beer that is more highly carbonated, say a hefeweizen or other wheat beer, you'll definitely want longer lines.

 

[day_trippr]

To be clear, EVABarrier tubing can be obtained in 4mm ID/8mm OD, 5mm ID/8mm OD, and 6mm ID/9.5mm OD.

The 5mm ID would be very close to conventional 3/16" ID solid PVC beer line (eg: the ubiquitous Bevlex 200) wrt line restriction, and so I would expect the 1' per PSI rule of thumb could be safely employed. Otoh, the 4mm ID line would pose a significant additional restriction, and I bet a survey of line lengths for that ID would settle around 5.5~6 feet.

fwiw, I run the 4mm ID line for beer and the 5mm ID for gas. I run 6' of the former plus another 10" on the other side of the flow meters per each faucet...

Cheers!

 

[Michele Craft]

I'm using 1' (yes, foot, sorry!) but they are EVA lines. The worst thing that can happen if they are "too long" is a slower pour. A too short line can cause the co2 to come out of solution and give foam, but a seemingly undercarbonated liquid. so, it's quite literally a balancing act. The last thing I'd do is shorten the lines, after trying other things. Mine is at 12 psi, and I have 15' lines on a couple of them. If you ever have a beer that is more highly carbonated, say a hefeweizen or other wheat beer, you'll definitely want longer lines.

How long do you expect a head to stay on a beer after the pour. So let's say I pour it, it takes 15 seconds or so for the 16oz pour, have a 1 to 2 finger head on it. Seems like mine is dissipating "too quickly" but I don't know what the standard is to be expected. Maybe my experience at bars has been bad and they actually have too much foam which by the time it gets to my seat looks like just enough.

 

[Michele Craft]

To be clear, EVABarrier tubing can be obtained in 4mm ID/8mm OD, 5mm ID/8mm OD, and 6mm ID/9.5mm OD.

The 5mm ID would be very close to conventional 3/16" ID solid PVC beer line (eg: the ubiquitous Bevlex 200) wrt line restriction, and so I would expect the 1' per PSI rule of thumb could be safely employed. Otoh, the 4mm ID line would pose a significant additional restriction, and I bet a survey of line lengths for that ID would settle around 5.5~6 feet.

fwiw, I run the 4mm ID line for beer and the 5mm ID for gas. I run 6' of the former plus another 10" on the other side of the flow meters per each faucet...

Cheers!

4mm ID lines for beer and gas here which is why I'm thinking I should have no problem shortening things up even for wheats etc. given your advice way up in this thread. The "how long a head stays" (did I just say that??) question is still a question for me tho as I learn.

 

[day_trippr]

There is a lot that goes into head retention, and perfect carbonation is probably at the lower end of significance compared to what went into the beer and how it was treated...

Cheers!

 

[DuncB]

What about the fizz in the beer are there bubbles rising or has it poured with a head but nothing left?

 

[Michele Craft]

There is a lot that goes into head retention, and perfect carbonation is probably at the lower end of significance compared to what went into the beer and how it was treated...

Cheers!

Good to know, I won't worry about that aspect then.

What about the fizz in the beer are there bubbles rising or has it poured with a head but nothing left?

There are bubbles rising and it's definitely not flat. Took a timer and just did a pour. 17 seconds for a 16oz cup. Head gone in maybe 45 to 60 seconds (didn't time that part). I know some would say the 17 seconds is kind of long but I don't think I'm offended by it so I might just leave it alone and enjoy the beer. The world is in enough of a hurry, my beer doesn't need to be lol!

 

[day_trippr]

While that's a pretty decent looking pour when zoomed in tight the foam has a rather "coarse" look to it. How long has that beer been on gas?
As I said, there's a lot that goes into a rocky, persistent head, and even after ~17 years of brewing I'm still learning. I'm up to roughly 50/50 in creating beers with long life head

Cheers!

 

[DuncB]

That looks fine, blame your suppliers for the non durable head.
Perfection is the enemy of good.

 

[Michele Craft]

While that's a pretty decent looking pour when zoomed in tight the foam has a rather "coarse" look to it. How long has that beer been on gas?

I noticed the bigger bubbles in the head too but oddly, it's more on the top vs bottom I think and seems to present as it's dissipating. Picked up the keg from distributor yesterday and let it sit in the kegerator for about 5 hours to settle from the car ride and all (it was cold on pickup) so just about 24 hours since we tapped it.

That looks fine, blame your suppliers for the non durable head.
Perfection is the enemy of good.

That's so weird you said that "perfection is the enemy of good" as I just had someone on a team call use it at work.

 

[DuncB]

One other thing to say is that the plastic cup might contribute a bit to the head loss.

You want a really clean glass, no soap residue, no bits of tea towel fluff on it. Think that will make a dramatic difference as we see so many nucleation sites on the side of the " cup ".

 

[Michele Craft]

One other thing to say is that the plastic cup might contribute a bit to the head loss.

You want a really clean glass, no soap residue, no bits of tea towel fluff on it. Think that will make a dramatic difference as we see so many nucleation sites on the side of the " cup ".

I was actually starting to wonder about that. I mean when this goes downstairs into my bar, obviously proper glassware will be used but for this weekend, since it's in the garage with about 50 people coming over, plastic will be the vessel of choice lol!

 

[DuncB]

Do your personal tests in a glass so you have an idea of what the future holds and also at the party, that way you'll know your beer. Are they sprung loaded taps? ie they close when let go?
Most people know to close a tap running beer but if the keg runs out you just pour all of the CO2 away, something to watch for.

 

[Michele Craft]

Do your personal tests in a glass so you have an idea of what the future holds and also at the party, that way you'll know your beer. Are they sprung loaded taps? ie they close when let go?
Most people know to close a tap running beer but if the keg runs out you just pour all of the CO2 away, something to watch for.

I'll try a glass tomorrow and see what's what.
Nope, these are Perlick 630SS but given we'll have 1/4 and a sixtel of another kind plus a bunch in cans, it's EXTREMELY unlikely we'll kick a keg at the party.

 

[DuncB]

we'll have 1/4 and a sixtel of another kind

I'm not sure what that means with out any units.
I am familiar with cans though sizes from 150ml to 5 litres for beer.

 

[Michele Craft]

I'm not sure what that means with out any units.
I am familiar with cans though sizes from 150ml to 5 litres for beer.

Ah sorry, that's 1/4 of a keg and 1/6 of a keg. 1/4 is 7.75 US gallons and 1/6 is 5.2 US gallons. I swear I wish the US would just go metric like the rest of the world lol!

 

[Yooper]

Good to know, I won't worry about that aspect then.

There are bubbles rising and it's definitely not flat. Took a timer and just did a pour. 17 seconds for a 16oz cup. Head gone in maybe 45 to 60 seconds (didn't time that part). I know some would say the 17 seconds is kind of long but I don't think I'm offended by it so I might just leave it alone and enjoy the beer. The world is in enough of a hurry, my beer doesn't need to be lol!

Glassware is really important in head retention and lacing in the glass. If you use a beer glass, make sure it is "bar clean". One thing to do, especially if you have a dishwasher, is to moisten it and then sprinkle table salt in it. Rub that with your hand/fingers, like it's scouring powder. Rinse well, then pour a beer. The only way to really judge head and foam retention is to have a bar clean real beer glass!

 

[Michele Craft]

Glassware is really important in head retention and lacing in the glass. If you use a beer glass, make sure it is "bar clean". One thing to do, especially if you have a dishwasher, is to moisten it and then sprinkle table salt in it. Rub that with your hand/fingers, like it's scouring powder. Rinse well, then pour a beer. The only way to really judge head and foam retention is to have a bar clean real beer glass!

Ok I'll give that a try in the morning. We have some beer glasses we don't wash in the dishwasher but mainly because they have custom logos on them vs the pint glasses you just get randomly like in running race swag bags. Interesting trick with the salt, just like how we cleaned coffee pots when I worked in the restaurant as a kid. We also have bar keepers friend power, is that also an option?

 

[DuncB]

By my reckoning that less than 2 pints per guest, I'm sure you'll be whisking up cocktails and wine for a good few though.
You might be surprised how much goes.

PBW is good for glasses as well and a rinse in nice hot water and evaporate dry works for me. I would expect to get a beer glass clean glass after the dishwasher and a thorough hot water rinse and rub.

 

[Michele Craft]

By my reckoning that less than 2 pints per guest, I'm sure you'll be whisking up cocktails and wine for a good few though.
You might be surprised how much goes.

PBW is good for glasses as well and a rinse in nice hot water and evaporate dry works for me. I would expect to get a beer glass clean glass after the dishwasher and a thorough hot water rinse and rub.

That is true on pure math but we have many that aren't drinkers at all, a bunch of kids (which just increases how much beer I need to drink to deal lol!) and then we have a lot of beer in cans bottles and a bunch of guests that don't go anywhere without their cooler of miller light (ugh!) plus an amount of liquor bottles that beats most bars around us so I'm pretty sure we'll be good, and heck, if we kick a keg, just means it was a darn good party, right??

 

[DuncB]

It's got promise, might want the odd nibble thrown in, but the bar looks good to prop up.

 

[Michele Craft]

It's got promise, might want the odd nibble thrown in, but the bar looks good to prop up.

ok now it's my turn to ask... what's a "nibble" in NZ? I was there in 1990 but I was young and not of drinking age so maybe I missed "nibble"? Here that would be food, of which there'll be plenty.

 

[DuncB]

I'm a Brit so it's snacks with drinks to me, anything from vodka chilli soaked cherry tomatoes with a pea dip, to nachos, hotwings, sausages on sticks, the cheese and pineapple on a cocktail stick of my parents parties is not for me. Love a Hot cheese and artichoke baked dip. Sausage rolls, pork scratchings ( one for you to look up but amazing with a pint of hand pulled cask ale in an English pub or my back garden). Olives the black shrivelled slightly salty ones from Greece, tiny yorkshire puddings with a slither of roast beef and horseradish sauce on. Blinis with smoked salmon and a little bit of dill sauce, crustidos with half a cherry tomato and a half teaspoon of pesto. Crisps, nuts not sit down food though not necessarily canapes either.
@day_trippr would know a nibble as being half a byte I think and they aren't edible.

 

[day_trippr]

haha! A "nibble" is indeed half a byte, and entirely inedible

Gotta say your notion of "snacks" has me hankering for some of that

Cheers!