Water, sanitizer, or vodka
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Because over the course of three weeks fermentation and after several blow offs the vessel will become filled with a water and krausen mixture, this will lead to bacteria growth in the vessel. In fact bacteria will grow just in water even if it was boiled first.
This increases the risk of contamination in two ways, either solution can get drawn back into the fermenter if there is an significant cooling and secondly motile organism can move up the hose if there is a continuous stream of fluid.
Though the risk is low, for the sake of a little starsan it worth it eliminating it all togther. Its also not nice pouring way a vessel containing bacteria spoilage.
This increases the risk of contamination in two ways, either solution can get drawn back into the fermenter if there is an significant cooling and secondly motile organism can move up the hose if there is a continuous stream of fluid.
Though the risk is low, for the sake of a little starsan it worth it eliminating it all togther. Its also not nice pouring way a vessel containing bacteria spoilage.
Vodka, just because I can do one for the airlock and one for me… post brew ritual.
I use cheap vodka in my airlocks,but Starsan in blow off jugs. One scientist type member came on here a month or so ago & said cheap grocery store vodka doesn't have enough alcohol. So I thought about the grain alcohol liquor stores sell. According to him,that would do a better job.
+1 to cheap vodka in airlocks and StarSan in blow off jugs. On brew day, I always have a bucket of StarSan for things like pump hoses, etc. I just fill the blow off jug from that bucket when putting things in the fermenchamber.
Same here except I use StarSan in the s-airlocks as well.
fuelish
Well-Known Member
I suppose if one is going to use a blowoff tube in place for the entire ferment, one might want to sanitize it with something, but as soon as krausen starts to fall, I have always replaced the tube with an airlock...but then again, I've never bothered to put anything other than water in my airlocks, has never been an issue even with meads in a carboy for months....a lot of folks seem to stress out over the most trivial stuff. The only concern I would have would be if there's a chance of suck back, which ain't gonna happen with active fermentation. Extreme temp change, such as cold crashing, yeah, put vodka in the airlock.....but under normal fermenting conditions, water is fine....ymmv
Johnnyhitch1
Well-Known Member
Well i would hope any "vodka" sold at 80 proof will have plenty of alcohol to sterlize...grocery store or liquor store the cheap stuff is always grain.
Grain alcohol is 180 proof stuff. That's what the other guy's claiming is needed. Might try it to see when it sucks back if there's no infections starting vs the cheap vodka.
I pretty much use water in all of my airlocks, but if I happen to have an airlock filled with star-san while I'm sanitizing my gear, I'll use it that way.
TheCanisDirus
Well-Known Member
This.
unionrdr:
I am that scientist-type other guy. Since that post I found later info on alcohol sterilants: The alc. concentration must be between 60 and 80%, or 120 to 160 proof. Buuuutttt, the airlock is to exclude air, not microbes. So, for the MILLIONTH time:
1) Change the entire airlock periodically. You wouldn't wear filthy clothes, would you?
2) Use a non-evaporating sterilant which is safe if sucked back: StarSan. Vodka is useless, as is all alcohol, as exiting CO2 undoubtedly flushes out the more-volatile alcohol out into the air.
3) Follow the airlock with a cotton-filled filter tube, like a 1" i.d. poly tube.
4) Put the airlock and filter into a poly bag, attach with several rubber bands(around the carboy neck), deflate the bag, and allow it to fill with the CO2.
5) Needless to say (?), all this stuff should be sanitized prior to use.
So, can you guys see where all this is going?
Now, the only way microbes can get in is, if you give them a few billion years, they could possibly evolve from simpler organic molecules. Before then, your beer should be finished.
I am that scientist-type other guy. Since that post I found later info on alcohol sterilants: The alc. concentration must be between 60 and 80%, or 120 to 160 proof. Buuuutttt, the airlock is to exclude air, not microbes. So, for the MILLIONTH time:
1) Change the entire airlock periodically. You wouldn't wear filthy clothes, would you?
2) Use a non-evaporating sterilant which is safe if sucked back: StarSan. Vodka is useless, as is all alcohol, as exiting CO2 undoubtedly flushes out the more-volatile alcohol out into the air.
3) Follow the airlock with a cotton-filled filter tube, like a 1" i.d. poly tube.
4) Put the airlock and filter into a poly bag, attach with several rubber bands(around the carboy neck), deflate the bag, and allow it to fill with the CO2.
5) Needless to say (?), all this stuff should be sanitized prior to use.
So, can you guys see where all this is going?
Now, the only way microbes can get in is, if you give them a few billion years, they could possibly evolve from simpler organic molecules. Before then, your beer should be finished.
BrewKnurd
Well-Known Member
vodka folks - what do you perceive as the advantages of using vodka vs starsan?
OK,thanks for the clarifications. I should've figured I'd forget something. The cheap vodka has been working better than plain water. And it doesn't foam out & empty the airlock like Starsan does. Maybe I'll try a 50/50 mix of both & see how that works? Maybe the vodka will keep the Starsan from foaming out so quickly?
I disagree. Air can not ingress into a fermenter because it is at positive pressure. Even when fermentation ceases degassing of wort still keeps the fermenter at positive pressure.
As soon as you lose positive pressure ( or more accurately have negative pressure) air will flow into the fermenter, airlock or no airlock.
As for the contents of the airlock, I don't think starsan or vodka do anything to aid an aspetic fermenter. The S bend in the airlock coupled with the positive pressure will do enough to keep microbes out. Airbourne microbial contamination will simply settle at the bottle on the S bend (assuming no cap, if you cap it you even prevent that). It would do this even at ambient pressure. It only at negative pressure could air and microbes be drawn around the S bend.
The only advantage of solution in the airlock is in the event of negative pressure and suck back. In such a case any microbial contamination that has settled in the airlock is killed and not draw back into the fermenter. However new contamination can still be draw in afterwards once the airlock is empty.
The biggest thing that keeps your fermentation contamination free is the positive pressure it generates (keeping air out) and the S bend and cap(keeping heavy particulates out)
You only have to look out an 90mm agar plate works, he lid over laps the base and creates a bend just like the airlock does. At my former place of work we must have incubated over 10,000 plates a year with no contamination issues and they were at ambient pressure and in the same incubator as subcultures.
The only way to stop contamination risk completely once you have negative pressure is with a vent filter
Ditto. No infections to date.
SoonerDoc
Well-Known Member
Water in my airlock, water or StarSan in my blow-off jar.
patthebrewer
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Star san in a blowoff bucket or jug....in the usual concentration. Nuff Said
I use extra diluted (1:1 "sanitizing ratio starsan":water) in my airlocks. Why? Regular strength starsan bubbles out of the airlock far too much for my liking. Water has no effective bacterial barrier. It provides a happy medium for me, and until I encounter an issue from doing so I will continue in this manner.
I always like to think back to the ancient days when sanitation was virtually non-existent apart from the boil. They made beer that was good enough to warrant continuing production.
I always like to think back to the ancient days when sanitation was virtually non-existent apart from the boil. They made beer that was good enough to warrant continuing production.
As another 'scientist type member:'
You don't even need an airlock until fermentation is slowing down since so much CO2 is being produced (I still use a blow off tube though). This being said, I always use starsan in my airlocks/blowoff receptacles. I do this because it doesn't evaporate as quickly as ethanol and because it probably won't effect flavor as much if it gets sucked back into the beer.
40% EtOH (80 proof) is not perfect at killing nasties, but it is good enough for beer (in my opinion). We use 70% ethanol or 10% bleach in the lab if we need to sterilize stuff that we cant put in an autoclave.
Take home point: I use starsan for everything. Don't put bleach in your airlock because it will ruin your beer if it is sucked back in. Vodka will probably be just fine but will evaporate more quickly than starsan.
You don't even need an airlock until fermentation is slowing down since so much CO2 is being produced (I still use a blow off tube though). This being said, I always use starsan in my airlocks/blowoff receptacles. I do this because it doesn't evaporate as quickly as ethanol and because it probably won't effect flavor as much if it gets sucked back into the beer.
40% EtOH (80 proof) is not perfect at killing nasties, but it is good enough for beer (in my opinion). We use 70% ethanol or 10% bleach in the lab if we need to sterilize stuff that we cant put in an autoclave.
Take home point: I use starsan for everything. Don't put bleach in your airlock because it will ruin your beer if it is sucked back in. Vodka will probably be just fine but will evaporate more quickly than starsan.
patthebrewer
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