Water per pound of grain for mash?

[Snotpoodle]

I have seen some interesting numbers around how much water to add per pound of grain for the mash.

I helped with a brew at a 500 litre brewery last week (test brew for a large commercial brewery), and the number was around 3.5 litres per kilogram of grain.

Converted, thats around (3.5litres) 0.9 gallons of water to (1kg) 2.2lbs of grain.

I have tried several different methods, and I have found it a lot easier to go higher on mash water volume in the beginning, to give me better circulation, clearer wort and a larger first runnings.

Thoughts?

 

[bullinachinashop]

1.25 Quarts per pound. +/-

 

[mburnett274]

I do 2 quarts per pound for most recipies.
Mash thickness has little effect on the final taste. It effects the brewing process.
In my opinion

 

[heckels]

1.25 quarts per pound. +/-

+ 1

 

[emjay]

1.25L/lb

Because the two units are so close, that's only about 5% more water than the guys measuring it in quarts.

IIRC, as long as you leave it long enough to fully convert (which requires even being ABLE to do so), a thicker mash can get you higher efficiency, especially if batch sparging, because it lets you sparge with more water to really get at all the residual sugars.

 

[Coolmac]

According to Brewing Science and Practice, you can get up to 7 l/kg without any negative effects to the amount extracted. So really anything from 2.6l/kg upwards seems okay, and really just up to the brewer.

 

[Snotpoodle]

Thanks lads.

I guess Coolmac addressed my concern - i.e. could you ever mash with too much water.

I'll continue to go high on my mash volumes.

Thanks.

 

[emetcalf]

I have no personal experience to back this up, but from what I have read "too much water" is around 1 gallon per pound. I don't remember what kind of problems it causes, but thats also A LOT of water to be mashing with.

 

[erikhild59]

1.33 qt/lb.

 

[MBasile]

1.25 Quarts per pound. +/-

+/- anything (within reason). It doesn't matter a whole lot as long as you actually have some water in there :rockin:

 

[JonK331]

1.25 Quarts per pound. +/-

But I've read you really don't want to go over 3 Quarts per pound.

 

[PurpleJeepXJ]

Am I wrong but couldn't you mash with as much water as you wanted as long as you had the capability to boil it down? I follow Beersmith but I am just asking 'in theory'.

 

[Yooper]

Am I wrong but couldn't you mash with as much water as you wanted as long as you had the capability to boil it down? I follow Beersmith but I am just asking 'in theory'.

Well, no.

I mean, sure you could. But the idea of a mash is for starch conversion. This requires enzymatic activity, and since it requires a specific pH to activate/optimize the enzymes required for this to happen. The more water, the higher the pH, generally speaking. There's a lot more to it that my simplistic version, but that's the basic premise behind mashing.

 

[MBasile]

Am I wrong but couldn't you mash with as much water as you wanted as long as you had the capability to boil it down? I follow Beersmith but I am just asking 'in theory'.

Well there is also the limits of your mash tun that need to be taken into consideration. for instance, if I mashed with 10gallons/lb I'd only have a pound of grain

There are those people that use a constant volume of strike water regardless of the amour of grain, as supposedly most commercial breweries do.

 

[Snotpoodle]

MBasile - the figure I gave is from a (massive) commercial brewery.So its not a constant, rather a ratio.

 

[ChillWill]

A local brewery uses 2.5l per kg grain, pretty much 2.5x as much water as grain.

I've found that was too much and my efficiency suffered as a result so I'm down to 2.1x at the moment and seeing better results.

 

[Bradinator]

I am still a beginner when it comes to all grain but some of my findings were that you can mash with a low (1qt/lbs) ratio and get a very good conversion BUT only if its a small grain bill (like under 7lbs). Larger grain bills just won't get covered in enough water and will never convert fully.

After reading this thread it seems that slightly more is better than slightly less as you can just boil off the additional water if required. Is this a correct assumption?

 

[Misplaced_Canuck]

I am still a beginner when it comes to all grain but some of my findings were that you can mash with a low (1qt/lbs) ratio and get a very good conversion BUT only if its a small grain bill (like under 7lbs). Larger grain bills just won't get covered in enough water and will never convert fully.

After reading this thread it seems that slightly more is better than slightly less as you can just boil off the additional water if required. Is this a correct assumption?

1) That doesn't make sense unless you have a serious amount of deadspace in the mashtun. If you mash 1qt/lb, it's a ratio. The mix/stiffness will be the same throughout the mashtun (after stirring).

If you have deadspace (using a false bottom or similar), you need to figure out what amount of water is in the deadspace and adjust from that.

If you have a 2qt deadspace, a 10 lbs mash, and want 1.0 qt/lb you will need 10*1.0 + 2qt = 12qt.

2) You really don't want to waste time, effort and heat to boil down extra volume. So if mash with a higher water ratio (say 1.5 qt/lb), you'd adjust your sparge water DOWN to accommodate for the extra water used in the mash.

I'm along the lines of 1.1 to 1.2qt per lb. As long as I hit my mash temperature, I'm happy. I also "sparge to empty", which means that I will run all of my sparge water through the mash until the mashtun has been emptied.

I often adjust my mash water based on how much water I want to measure - ie., I will add more or less water (while still in the 1.1 to 1.2 range) until I can easily measure it. If the recipe calls for 23.6qt of water and gives me a 1.1 qt/lb, I will adjust to 24qt (easier to measure) and not worry about that the ratio is now 1.15qt/lb, as it's still in the range that I'm comfortable with.

M_C

 

[emetcalf]

I often adjust my mash water based on how much water I want to measure - ie., I will add more or less water (while still in the 1.1 to 1.2 range) until I can easily measure it. If the recipe calls for 23.6qt of water and gives me a 1.1 qt/lb, I will adjust to 24qt (easier to measure) and not worry about that the ratio is now 1.15qt/lb, as it's still in the range that I'm comfortable with.

M_C

I do that too, except I'm more flexible with my range. Anything from 1.1-1.5 is good enough for me, so I round to the nearest half gallon instead of quart.

 

[asterix404]

So there is some serious wiggle room with this. Grain will absorb about .6qt of water per pound so you need more than that. You also have to worry about the ph of the beer as previously mentioned, too much water will keep the ph high. I typically do for an infusion mash, 1-1.25qt per pound which keeps the amount of liquid down. I also batch sparge with the same amount of water.

I decoction mash with 1.5-2qt per pound because I can. Also some of the liquid will boil off during a decoction mash, not a lot, but some. So basically it's all about what you are looking for or want to do with your mash.

 

[stevedasleeve]

I was 1.25 for quite a long while, or there abouts. When I upped the water between 1.4 ans 1.7 qts per lb my efficiency went up a bit and I found it much easier to mix up the mash and eliminate dough balls. Now I do this ratio routinely targeting 1.5 qts/lb or so.

FWIW and YMMV

 

[azeeb]

I no-sparge and put all my grain and water in at the strike. For a mid size beer the mash thickness is usually around 3 qts / lb. I guess that works out to a little over 6 L / kg.

For a 1.050ish beer I usually get about 75% efficiency and the beer comes out great. I get my pH correct at the beginning of the mash, and don't have to worry about it changing during a sparge.

 

[Misplaced_Canuck]

I no-sparge and put all my grain and water in at the strike. For a mid size beer the mash thickness is usually around 3 qts / lb. I guess that works out to a little over 6 L / kg.

For a 1.050ish beer I usually get about 75% efficiency and the beer comes out great. I get my pH correct at the beginning of the mash, and don't have to worry about it changing during a sparge.

That's quite impressive to get 75% out of a no-sparge. Are you doing anything special?

M_C

 

[azeeb]

No, not really. I have a RIMS system and I recirculate. If I batch sparge I get around 85% on a 1.050ish beer. So I'm losing about 10% by no-sparging. I've been doing it this way for a couple years now, and am happy with the results. The no sparge effeciency really drops off fast on big beers, though.

 

[MBasile]

MBasile - the figure I gave is from a (massive) commercial brewery.So its not a constant, rather a ratio.

Didn't say all commercial breweries.