Water Chemistry for IPA's

[lilbova3]

I've been homebrewing now for about 8 months and haven't really tapped into water chemistry. I want to start looking at it to make better beer, hopefully. I love making IPA's and I'm looking for a little advice with water chemistry. I've read up a lot on Homebrewtalk and other various websites about the perfect water chemistry for IPA's but I want to see what others are saying right now. Here's my water at the moment, I live in Bluffton, SC.
Ca: 14
Mg: 2
SO4: 36
Na: 23
Cl: 20

With additions of salts, would you say getting as close to this water chemistry would be good for IPA's (below)?
Ca: 100
Mg: 2
SO4: 180
Na: 16
Cl: 60

I know a good general rule of thumb for hoppy, IPA, beers is to have a sulfide:chloride ratio of 3:1. I've ready John Palmer's info. I even printed out the information about pH to figure how much calcium I should add to get to that pH. Which brings me to another question, what do you like to see your pH at for IPA's, SRM's 7.5 or lower? pH between 5.2 and 5.5?

Thanks for the help and advice in advance.

 

[bobbrews]

If you have read John Palmer's info, then I'm sure you have seen this chart:

http://www.howtobrew.com/section3/chapter15-3.html


I would simply look into accurate additions of Gypsum and Calcium Chloride... you might not even need Cal Chloride. There are numerous calculators out there that tell you how much is required for an IPA (given your water profile).

Gypsum / CaSO4

• 4.0 grams per level teaspoon
• Minimally decreases pH and moderately increases alkalinity
• More soluble in cold water
• Use to add crispness to the hop bitterness

Calcium Chloride / CaCl2

• 3.4 grams per level teaspoon
• Minimally decreases pH and moderately increases alkalinity
• Useful for adding calcium if the water is low in chlorides

 

[ajdelange]

I've read up a lot on Homebrewtalk and other various websites about the perfect water chemistry for IPA's

The perfect water chemistry for IPA's (or any other style) is the water chemistry that works with your other materials to give you the beer that is best by whatever your criterion of goodness is. Note that 'winning a ribbon' and 'producing a beer my SO likes' and 'selling lots of beer' are but three of several possible goodness criteria.

..but I want to see what others are saying right now.

Reasonable, but you will have to experiment. You will certainly find plenty of people willing to tell you what the perfect profile is.

Here's my water at the moment, I live in Bluffton, SC.
Ca: 14
Mg: 2
SO4: 36
Na: 23
Cl: 20

You don't list the most important parameter for the brewer: alkalinity. Looking at the other numbers it probably isn't too bad. You are fortunate in this regard.

With additions of salts, would you say getting as close to this water chemistry would be good for IPA's (below)?
Ca: 100
Mg: 2
SO4: 180
Na: 16
Cl: 60

Could be. Depends on what you or your 'customers' like.

I know a good general rule of thumb for hoppy, IPA, beers is to have a sulfide:chloride ratio of 3:1.

The rule is to use the level of chloride and the level of sulfate that produce a beer with the desired taste characteristics. The ratio of chloride to sulfate has little to do with this. I advocate a measured approach in which you would brew the beer with the water you have (no additions -except for pH adjusting additions and we'll get to that) and then taste it. Next add, in the glass, small amounts of gypsum and taste again. Keep adding gypsum until the best addition level is found. Then use that as the basis for your next brew. Do the same with the sulfates.

I've ready John Palmer's info. I even printed out the information about pH to figure how much calcium I should add to get to that pH.

Calcium does have an effect on pH but not a large one so don't rely on calcium for pH adjustment. If you wind up liking lots of sulfate (which many IPA fans do) then you will be getting it from calcium sulfate which, of course, introduces lots of calcium and the pH reducing effect must be considered. Most brewers rely on phosphoric or lactic acid for pH control.

Which brings me to another question, what do you like to see your pH at for IPA's, SRM's 7.5 or lower? pH between 5.2 and 5.5?

Color has very little to do with either the mash pH or the underlying water chemistry. Mash pH should be between, say, 5.4 and 5.6 as measured at room temperature.


Many beginners have found the info at https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f128/brewing-water-chemistry-primer-198460/ useful.

 

[GCBrewery]

Since AJ jumped in and I just finished "Water" and like you I also am working on an IPA, here is what I have going. Thoughts? (sorry if I'm hijacking).

Mash thickness: 1.50 qt/lb
Overall Water Report:
Ca+2 143.3 ppm
Mg+2 9.4 ppm
Na+ 14.9 ppm
Cl- 84 ppm
SO4-2 200
Alkalinity 93.7
Residual Alkalinity -13.9

 

[lilbova3]

My Total Alkalinity is 23.

ajdelange: when you say add in gypsum to taste test, am I actually doing that during the mash or boil, or am I doing that with the finished product after it is carbonated? Is it safe to test then?

bobbrews: I have seen that chart and that was the chart I was referring to in my original post. I just wanted to see what people thought of it and if they believed it help turn out good/great beer.

Thanks.

 

[mabrungard]

I'll let someone else's words guide you as to what he thinks of the Palmer nomograph:

3-time Ninkasi winner, Gordon Strong told me that following that advice leads to 'alka seltzer' beer flavor. I tend to agree, but why would you listen to me?

 

[lilbova3]

I'll let someone else's words guide you as to what he thinks of the Palmer nomograph:

3-time Ninkasi winner, Gordon Strong told me that following that advice leads to 'alka seltzer' beer flavor. I tend to agree, but why would you listen to me?

So beware of Palmer's nomograph you think?

 

[ajdelange]

Yes.

Three pieces of dogma that have been more or less put aside in the last three or four years are:
1. You can determine what the water quality for a beer should be by its color.
2. A particular type of beer needs a particular range of residual alkalinity
3. Chalk can be used to add alkalinity to mash
4. There is a hoppiness/maltiness axis and you can position a beer anywhere you want along it by adjusting the sulfate to chloride ratio.

The thing is that there is some truth to all 4 of these. The problems come along when someone decides to brew a stout, used something like the nomograph to conclude that because of the deep color a high RA is required, attempts to achieve the high RA by dumping in tbsp of chalk and then, based on the notion that he wants 'balanced' maltiness/hopiness and that he has water with 300 mg/L sulfate thinks he can bring about balance increasing his chloride to 300 mg/L.

From today's perspective that all seems kind of foolish but a few years ago a lot of 'alka selzer' beers were being made by home brewers.

 

[lilbova3]

The perfect water chemistry for IPA's (or any other style) is the water chemistry that works with your other materials to give you the beer that is best by whatever your criterion of goodness is. Note that 'winning a ribbon' and 'producing a beer my SO likes' and 'selling lots of beer' are but three of several possible goodness criteria.

Reasonable, but you will have to experiment. You will certainly find plenty of people willing to tell you what the perfect profile is.


You don't list the most important parameter for the brewer: alkalinity. Looking at the other numbers it probably isn't too bad. You are fortunate in this regard.

Could be. Depends on what you or your 'customers' like.



The rule is to use the level of chloride and the level of sulfate that produce a beer with the desired taste characteristics. The ratio of chloride to sulfate has little to do with this. I advocate a measured approach in which you would brew the beer with the water you have (no additions -except for pH adjusting additions and we'll get to that) and then taste it. Next add, in the glass, small amounts of gypsum and taste again. Keep adding gypsum until the best addition level is found. Then use that as the basis for your next brew. Do the same with the sulfates.

Calcium does have an effect on pH but not a large one so don't rely on calcium for pH adjustment. If you wind up liking lots of sulfate (which many IPA fans do) then you will be getting it from calcium sulfate which, of course, introduces lots of calcium and the pH reducing effect must be considered. Most brewers rely on phosphoric or lactic acid for pH control.

Color has very little to do with either the mash pH or the underlying water chemistry. Mash pH should be between, say, 5.4 and 5.6 as measured at room temperature.


Many beginners have found the info at https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f128/brewing-water-chemistry-primer-198460/ useful.

aj, I'm still curious, would I add in the salts to the finished product or the mash or boil? I figure I'd get a better representation of what I want to do if I put it in the finished product but is that safe to consume not boiled? Sorry if it sounds like a dumb question but I have no idea!

 

[ajdelange]

In a taste test you brew the beer with a reasonable but minimal mineral content. The result would be a good but perhaps not the best beer. You taste this beer. You then add a bit of gypsum and taste again. If the beer tasted better with more gypsum you add still more and if that tastes better you add even more than that repeating until the improvement stops. You do the same with calcium chloride. When finished you have a rough idea of how much more gypsum and calcium chloride you want to add in the next brew.

Assuming that you are using food grade or USP gypsum and calcium chloride it is entirely safe to consume them without boiling.