Warming A Fermenter

[kyoun1e]

So I just dumped my Tank 7 clone in the carboy. I tried to put it in the warmest place in my house -- the garage. It's the only place where central AC doesn't hit anything.

The recipe kit says that the temp should stay between 65-77 F. When I talked to the homebrew store guys they indicated that "saisons LOVE heat" and that temps in the 80s are fine.

So, what seems like a reasonable temperature to shoot for? The temp in the garage is currently 67-68.

How can I warm it up? Wrap blankets around it??

My first batch was all about cooling. This is the opposite.

Thanks!

 

[flars]

Saisons may love heat but does the yeast you are using love heat. Saying a saison should be fermented hot is too general of a statement. I would go with the instructions and not let the active fermentation go over 77°F.

As the active fermentation slows the temperature of the beer will begin dropping towards the ambient. An aquarium heater and water bath may be the simplest method of keeping the beer as warm as the active fermentation temperature to finish. Avoiding fluctuating temperatures will give you the best chance of a good finished product. The aquarium heater I use at times is preset for 75°F. A temp controller is used for lower temperatures.

What was your OG and the yeast being used?

 

[kyoun1e]

Saisons may love heat but does the yeast you are using love heat. Saying a saison should be fermented hot is too general of a statement. I would go with the instructions and not let the active fermentation go over 77°F.

As the active fermentation slows the temperature of the beer will begin dropping towards the ambient. An aquarium heater and water bath may be the simplest method of keeping the beer as warm as the active fermentation temperature to finish. Avoiding fluctuating temperatures will give you the best chance of a good finished product. The aquarium heater I use at times is preset for 75°F. A temp controller is used for lower temperatures.

What was your OG and the yeast being used?

I'm using 3787 Trappist yeast from Wyeast. The homebrew store guy talked to the Tank 7 brewmaster and that's what they used so...bam.

As for OG gravity reading...um...well, that was kind of a problem. I read it the first time and it was WAY low. Something like 1.050 when it calls for 1.07-1.08. I then took it again and it looked like 1.090! There were too many damn bubbles in it from foam after topping off the water.

So aside from OG, what do you think on temp?

Thanks

 

[flars]

I wouldn't go over 78°F but don't let the temperature drop. Yeast is finicky and needs to be kept warm. This yeast can take over a week to finish off the last few gravity points after it seems to have hit the final gravity.

 

[kyoun1e]

Saisons may love heat but does the yeast you are using love heat. Saying a saison should be fermented hot is too general of a statement. I would go with the instructions and not let the active fermentation go over 77°F.

As the active fermentation slows the temperature of the beer will begin dropping towards the ambient. An aquarium heater and water bath may be the simplest method of keeping the beer as warm as the active fermentation temperature to finish. Avoiding fluctuating temperatures will give you the best chance of a good finished product. The aquarium heater I use at times is preset for 75°F. A temp controller is used for lower temperatures.

What was your OG and the yeast being used?

Doubt an aquarium heater is in the cards for this one.

So maybe using a tub and constantly refilling with warm water? Would think as that water cools and then gets warm again this works against the consistent temp that you're looking for.

What if I wrapped the carboy in sweaters/shirts/jackets??

 

[kh54s10]

If you use the warm water bath technique you don't let the temperature swing so much. When it drops a few degrees you add a bottle with hot water in it. The temperature will rise a little. You have to do it often enough so the temperature swings are not too big.

Sweaters/shirts/jackets will insulate from the cold temperatures. But, since fermentation is mostly done it will not raise the temperature.

If the low temperature in the garage is 67 but is getting warmer during the day, I think it is OK.

 

[65C]

where are you located? - everything I've read says Saison should be good at room temp if in US/UK/EU in summer

 

[kyoun1e]

where are you located? - everything I've read says Saison should be good at room temp if in US/UK/EU in summer

Boston area. It's summer. 80s and 90s.

But that doesn't really matter. We have central AC and our house is is sub 70 most of the time. That's why I'm sticking it in the garage where there is no central ac and it's still only 67-68.

 

[flars]

Boston area. It's summer. 80s and 90s.

But that doesn't really matter. We have central AC and our house is is sub 70 most of the time. That's why I'm sticking it in the garage where there is no central ac and it's still only 67-68.

I just ordered two more STC 1000's at $13.99 apiece and a 5 pack of NTC 10k submersible probes at $5.99. Having only one temperature controlled fermentor going at a time is boring. The 5 pack of probes is just in case something happens. The controllers will be used for aquarium heaters for now. Might use one for a hot box to bottle condition at warmer than ambient.

 

[ericbw]

First, keep it off the floor of the garage. That absorbs heat.

Supplies:
A seedling mat or reptile heater

Cheap plug in timer like for lights

Stick on brew thermometer.

You want to be careful not to overheat, so set the timer for 30 minutes on, 1-2 hours off. Liquid changes temperature slowly.

You'll see if that gets the temp up where you want it and keeps it stable. Then you can adjust to leave it on longer or change the cool time longer or shorter.

Eventually, an STC-1000 or pre-made thermostat will complete the rig.

 

[kyoun1e]

Saisons may love heat but does the yeast you are using love heat. Saying a saison should be fermented hot is too general of a statement. I would go with the instructions and not let the active fermentation go over 77°F.

As the active fermentation slows the temperature of the beer will begin dropping towards the ambient. An aquarium heater and water bath may be the simplest method of keeping the beer as warm as the active fermentation temperature to finish. Avoiding fluctuating temperatures will give you the best chance of a good finished product. The aquarium heater I use at times is preset for 75°F. A temp controller is used for lower temperatures.

What was your OG and the yeast being used?

Ok, so far so good. After about 30 hours the bubbling started so the yeast are doing their thing. The temp has been in the low 70s in the garage, but it is going to get colder end of the week and then I'm potentially away for a week. Think I need to control temp and thinking about this aquarium heater.

Will either of these do the trick:

1. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B06XCW2NY4/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

2. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000OQO69Q/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

The first one has adjustable temp setting. Second one I think is preset at 76 degrees F.

My setup: I currently have the plastic carboy in a bucket with 2 gallons of water in it. Assume that a heater in a plastic tub with a plastic carboy will not do any damage.

Will that do the trick? Keep in mid 70s temp maybe with one of those bad boys?

Thanks

 

[flars]

Ok, so far so good. After about 30 hours the bubbling started so the yeast are doing their thing. The temp has been in the low 70s in the garage, but it is going to get colder end of the week and then I'm potentially away for a week. Think I need to control temp and thinking about this aquarium heater.

Will either of these do the trick:

1. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B06XCW2NY4/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

2. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000OQO69Q/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

The first one has adjustable temp setting. Second one I think is preset at 76 degrees F.

My setup: I currently have the plastic carboy in a bucket with 2 gallons of water in it. Assume that a heater in a plastic tub with a plastic carboy will not do any damage.

Will that do the trick? Keep in mid 70s temp maybe with one of those bad boys?

Thanks

The first heater being adjustable may be the best. You would need an accurate thermometer to set the correct temperature. This could be done in a separate bucket to get it ready for when the the fermentation temperature begins dropping. Check the units length. Will it stay fully submerged even if there is some evaporation of the water?

The second unit looks like the one I use. My units temperature is controlled with a STC-1000 though. Maximum temperature is still 76°F despite using the controller.. This would rule out high temperature fermentations with kveik yeasts.

 

[mongoose33]

I'm going to add this to get you thinking about the next step.

I have both a FermWrap from Morebeer (heated mat) as well as a reptile-type heating mat purchased from Amazon.

Both I wrap around the fermenter and keep in place either using the lifting straps or by using bungee cords. The fermwrap is warm enough that it can work w/o something insulating it from ambient, the reptile heater works but works best if something like a towel is held over it to direct the warmth to the fermenter.

Both are controlled with an Inkbird controller which controls both the refrigeration and heating for me.

[BTW, today, Prime Day on Amazon is today. Inkbird is having a 20-percent off Prime Day sale on the 308T (what I use). $28 delivered with Prime. If ever there was a day to buy one, today's the day. Here's the link, and you have to put in the code: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=631337 ]

Currently you're more concerned w/ heat but you may find that you can control fermentation in the winter in the garage if it gets fairly cool in there. The Inkbird controller will do that very well for you, plus if you ever get a cheapo used refrigerator, there's your fermentation chamber.

Here's a pic showing me using the Fermwrap inside the refrigerator; the blue foam is holding the temp probe against the fermenter so it reads the temp of the fermenting beer, and the foam insulates it from ambient temp:

 

[ericbw]

I'm not sure how much you want to spend on this, but it is better to buy something that can be expanded on later rather than something that's a quick fix for now. The heaters suggested, with a thermostat, are ideal for that rather than an aquarium heater. ANd as you discovered, it is more likely to need to fight the heat than fight the cold. Most of the time.

 

[kyoun1e]

I'm going to add this to get you thinking about the next step.

I have both a FermWrap from Morebeer (heated mat) as well as a reptile-type heating mat purchased from Amazon.

Both I wrap around the fermenter and keep in place either using the lifting straps or by using bungee cords. The fermwrap is warm enough that it can work w/o something insulating it from ambient, the reptile heater works but works best if something like a towel is held over it to direct the warmth to the fermenter.

Both are controlled with an Inkbird controller which controls both the refrigeration and heating for me.

[BTW, today, Prime Day on Amazon is today. Inkbird is having a 20-percent off Prime Day sale on the 308T (what I use). $28 delivered with Prime. If ever there was a day to buy one, today's the day. Here's the link, and you have to put in the code: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=631337 ]

Currently you're more concerned w/ heat but you may find that you can control fermentation in the winter in the garage if it gets fairly cool in there. The Inkbird controller will do that very well for you, plus if you ever get a cheapo used refrigerator, there's your fermentation chamber.

Here's a pic showing me using the Fermwrap inside the refrigerator; the blue foam is holding the temp probe against the fermenter so it reads the temp of the fermenting beer, and the foam insulates it from ambient temp:

View attachment 407062

Ok, this seems more of where I need to go long term.

I like the idea of the wrap and if I really need the temperature control...both hot and warm...I guess this other device would work.

So, if I amazon it and get these two I should be good to go right? I want this for NOW and for Later.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00TP9MLFE/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01MDSWXY4/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

 

[mongoose33]

Ok, this seems more of where I need to go long term.

I like the idea of the wrap and if I really need the temperature control...both hot and warm...I guess this other device would work.

So, if I amazon it and get these two I should be good to go right? I want this for NOW and for Later.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00TP9MLFE/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01MDSWXY4/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

That's what I've done. I like the fermwrap in that it has double the wattage of the lizard cage warmer. And don't forget to use the discount code to buy that Inkbird. Good only today (and maybe tomorrow) I think.

 

[kyoun1e]

That's what I've done. I like the fermwrap in that it has double the wattage of the lizard cage warmer. And don't forget to use the discount code to buy that Inkbird. Good only today (and maybe tomorrow) I think.

Done.

This will be timed perfectly. It's humid till Thursday. Should get this Wednesday. Can set up and then take off for a week on vaca and let it sit.

 

[kyoun1e]

Wishing I had looked into this a week ago. Per my thermometer in the garage, the range of air temperature has been 67-76. Think that's reasonable, but as I understand it, the temp needs to be constant.

I've been pouring 2 gallons of hot water in my tub every night thinking that's when the overall temp drops to the low of 67.

Not much I can do here until the cavalry arrives Wednesday via Amazon.

 

[mongoose33]

Wishing I had looked into this a week ago. Per my thermometer in the garage, the range of air temperature has been 67-76. Think that's reasonable, but as I understand it, the temp needs to be constant.

I've been pouring 2 gallons of hot water in my tub every night thinking that's when the overall temp drops to the low of 67.

Not much I can do here until the cavalry arrives Wednesday via Amazon.

Maybe, maybe not.

Don't know if you're familiar w/ the Brulosophy website; they do "exbeeriments" there where they allow a single variable to change in brewing two batches, and then compare the results. Sometimes it makes a difference, sometimes now.

Here's a recent exbeeriment where the author allowed two temperature regimes, one variable, one constant. Not the same yeast, not the same recipe, not the same temperature regime.....and yet, if you read through all the brulosophy exbeeriments, you find a lot of things don't seem to matter much.

http://brulosophy.com/2017/05/08/fe...-pt-7-stable-vs-variable-exbeeriment-results/

I suspect w/ a saison this isn't going to matter much.

BTW, you may find some other interesting things among all the exbeeriments. My favorite is the one that compares Maris Otter malt w/ standard 2-row malt. The result showed that a significant number of tasters could tell the difference between the malts....but when asked which they preferred, they were split exactly 50-50.

 

[kh54s10]

I live about 60 miles south. Granted I have only brewed one Saison, but in 6 years I have yet to heat any brew.. The Saison I did I just had in my air-conditioned room at about 70 degrees. It turned out fine. I guess limiting temperature swings would be good. But why is the garage so cold. With temperatures in the upper 70s and lower 80s you must have a very well insulated garage.

 

[ericbw]

Wishing I had looked into this a week ago. Per my thermometer in the garage, the range of air temperature has been 67-76. Think that's reasonable, but as I understand it, the temp needs to be constant.

I've been pouring 2 gallons of hot water in my tub every night thinking that's when the overall temp drops to the low of 67.

Not much I can do here until the cavalry arrives Wednesday via Amazon.

When you're talking about temperature, is that the ambient temp of the air in your garage? Or is it the actual fermenter temperature?

I don't think a change of 67-76 is too great even if it is the fermenter, but if it's the air temp, then the fermenter is likely warmer and changes temp slowly. If it was dropping to the low 60s, I would worry that the yeast might drop out, but if at those temps, it's probably fine.

I suspect at this point, you have gotten or not gotten all the aroma and "character" that the yeast will give you.

 

[kyoun1e]

When you're talking about temperature, is that the ambient temp of the air in your garage? Or is it the actual fermenter temperature?

I don't think a change of 67-76 is too great even if it is the fermenter, but if it's the air temp, then the fermenter is likely warmer and changes temp slowly. If it was dropping to the low 60s, I would worry that the yeast might drop out, but if at those temps, it's probably fine.

I suspect at this point, you have gotten or not gotten all the aroma and "character" that the yeast will give you.

It's the temp of the air in the garage. Been in that consistent range of 67-76. Also, when adding the warm water to the bucket the water seems to settle in at 71-72.

Going to be super humid the next three days, but then temps are going to drop Friday big time. The new setup should arrive just in time.

 

[TungstenBeer]

It's the temp of the air in the garage. Been in that consistent range of 67-76. Also, when adding the warm water to the bucket the water seems to settle in at 71-72.

Going to be super humid the next three days, but then temps are going to drop Friday big time. The new setup should arrive just in time.

This will be the best investment in your entire process, believe me - maybe need to couple it with a chest freezer for cooling, but this is where you start to make leaps and bounds. Glad to see you're doing it on batch #2!

I suspect at this point, you have gotten or not gotten all the aroma and "character" that the yeast will give you.

Agree on the flavor, but full attenuation is going to be aided greatly by the fermwrap & controller he bought. May be tough to get proper attenuation without.

 

[ericbw]

Maybe it will help attenuation, but it's probably at 70 degrees and fairly consistent already.

Liquid changes temp slowly. By The time its cooling down, the air is heating again. It's not swinging from 67-76 every day.

 

[kyoun1e]

View attachment 407062

Ok, so both the fermwrap and the ITC-308 showed up today. I also got a couple of bungy chords to hook it up. I'm ready to go but a couple questions:

1. Plastic Carboy -- Any issue using the fermwrap directly on the plastic carboy? I'm going to be heading out for 10 days and I'm going to let this sit. I don't want to come back and see a melted carboy and beer all over.

2. Tank 7 Saison Temp Setting -- The kit calls for a wide range of 65-77. Odd. As I've mentioned, the ambient temp in my garage has been 67-77 (although maybe the liquid in the carboy doesn't swing as much) so maybe the average is low 70s. Now in reading an extensive Tank 7 clone thread, I've seen many really ramp up the temp into the 80s. Local homebrew guy said the same thing.

Any thoughts on what temp to set and forget this for 10 days? Was thinking 76 degrees. High end of kit instructions. Not sure I'm comfortable ramping up higher (after my IPA did just fine at 62 F).

Thanks!

 

[kyoun1e]

Ok, well I set it at 75 last night. Woke up and it looked like the low ambient temp last night was 68 F.

Also, plastic carboy wasn't on fire so I'm assuming this is safe to leave for 10 days.

Read this massive Tank 7 clone thread as well:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=250256

Best practice seems to be:

1. Pitch in the high 60s
2. Wait a few days and then let it run higher.
3. Mid 70s seems to be the consensus (although many go nuts and get the temps in the 80s and even 90s in the later stages of fermenting).

I figure when I get back, it's on week 3. I could leave it be at 75 or as others have done, ratchet even higher.

 

[ericbw]

This thread has a lot of info. People have mentioned that saison can run up into the 80s. People have mentioned that ambient and fermenter temp are different, with fermenter temperature typically higher. People (me) said liquid changes temp slower, so even large temp swings in the air mean less to the beer.

 

[kyoun1e]

This thread has a lot of info. People have mentioned that saison can run up into the 80s. People have mentioned that ambient and fermenter temp are different, with fermenter temperature typically higher. People (me) said liquid changes temp slower, so even large temp swings in the air mean less to the beer.

It's interesting. In my first batch, a white IPA, the process seemed pretty straightforward and controllable.

With a Tank 7 clone, a saison, and this Wyeast 3787, I feel like batch 2 is a wild uncontrollable beast! Kinda...not boring. I like it.