Warm, pressure ferment a Kölsch?

[Tony B]

Has anyone tried it with decent results?
I don’t have ferm temp control. I did a google search which led to several threads here, but not seeing any that share results of a kolsch fermented warm (70-75F) under pressure.
Truth told, I’m probably going to give it a go and will happily share the results here. But I wanted to see if anyone here has tried it.
I will be using WLP-029. I will cool wort to 68F-70F and pitch. The ambient temp in my house right now is about 75F. I plan to wet towel it and try to keep it in the low 70’s. I think I’ll run it with an airlock for the first 24 hours and then spund at 12psi.
I’ve got a couple brews in line ahead of this, so may be a few weeks or a month before I brew it.

 

[fluketamer]

pressure fermented 34/70 worked very well for me. finished in 4 days and super clean at 70 degrees and 12 psi.

pressure fermented lallemand kolsch koln ( not available anymore) stressed the yeast and produced some sulfer and wasnt as clean as kolcsh koln without pressure .

same with 2565 pressure seemed to stress this yeast a little also.

several weeks ago i had an extra 4 liters of wort from my kolsch that wouldnt fit in the FV so i tossed it in an oxebar 4 l with some so5. i just capped it and burped it every once in a while then capped it when the kreusen fell. it made a respectable crisp yellow beer . but it took a LONG time to clean up like 8 weeks as opposed to 3-4 with traditional kolsch or lager yeast.

The difference between kolsch yeast/ ale yeast and lager yeasts under pressure was so striking that it has caused me to shy away from ale yeast under pressure and going forward i will only ferment lager yeasts under pressure.

ymmv

i am thinking up a wc pale ale right now with bry 97 and have decided not to go with pressure.

this has just been my experience however and i have come to learn that many other factors in my process may be responsible for failed or not great beers. my experience are the result of very small sample sizes and hopefully you have better luck.


please let us know how it turns out.

 

[dmtaylor]

Forgive me, I'm still not understanding the fascination with pressure fermentation...

WLP029 is quite clean whether you ferment under pressure or not. That's my experience. No pressure.

 

[HighVoltageMan!]

Forgive me, I'm still not understanding the fascination with pressure fermentation...

It works really well for lagers and mimics the tall conical fermenters, reducing esters and high alcohols. I pressure ferment at lager temperatures. The beers are the cleanest I have ever fermented and have gone on the win at the NHC.

But the fascination with pressure fermenting ales is a misunderstanding of yeast. Ales turn out better without pressure, the esters make ales taste like.....ales. As mentioned above, not all yeast work well under pressure, Weihenstephan lager yeast strains are excellent under pressure.

 

[wdavis2003]

I have pressure fermented Kolsch yeast warm and the beer was awful. The yeast was stressed. Never doing it again. In fact, never pressure fermenting any Ale yeast again.

 

[Rich1234]

I've PF'ed several (4?-5?) 15 gal batches of kolsch with omega yeast 044 and they've turned out great. In fact, so well that I've only made my summer go-to beer once this year. They do need a few extra weeks before consumption. I've thought a few were going to be dumpers from the early samples, but they just needed some time.
Slight variations of the recipe using either weyermann pilsner or barke pilsner. The straight pilsner is little drier wine taste and the barke more sweet. Tettnang and hallertau mittelfruh hops.

They have received rave reviews. I brought a 2.5 gal corney to a party and that thing didn't stand a chance. In fact, one of the local cider makers told me, "This is good beer and I don't even like beer." lol

This beer may just push my liver to the brink...

 

[Tony B]

Hmmm. Maybe not a great idea. I usually brew about every other weekend and would hate to lose the time more than anything for a dumper batch.
A couple of the first batches I ever brewed were Kolsch with wlp-029 and at room temp, which during the winter was around 68F. I thought they were pretty good and figured I could get away with a bit warmer with some pressure.
Maybe I’ll check out some of the Omega 044 and give it a go. I have a hard time waiting for them to condition, but for a decent Kolsch it would be worth the wait.
I appreciate all the input.

 

[SkyPilot]

Hmmm. Maybe not a great idea. I usually brew about every other weekend and would hate to lose the time more than anything for a dumper batch.
A couple of the first batches I ever brewed were Kolsch with wlp-029 and at room temp, which during the winter was around 68F. I thought they were pretty good and figured I could get away with a bit warmer with some pressure.
Maybe I’ll check out some of the Omega 044 and give it a go. I have a hard time waiting for them to condition, but for a decent Kolsch it would be worth the wait.
I appreciate all the

pressure fermented 34/70 worked very well for me. finished in 4 days and super clean at 70 degrees and 12 psi.

pressure fermented lallemand kolsch koln ( not available anymore) stressed the yeast and produced some sulfer and wasnt as clean as kolcsh koln without pressure .

same with 2565 pressure seemed to stress this yeast a little also.

several weeks ago i had an extra 4 liters of wort from my kolsch that wouldnt fit in the FV so i tossed it in an oxebar 4 l with some so5. i just capped it and burped it every once in a while then capped it when the kreusen fell. it made a respectable crisp yellow beer . but it took a LONG time to clean up like 8 weeks as opposed to 3-4 with traditional kolsch or lager yeast.

The difference between kolsch yeast/ ale yeast and lager yeasts under pressure was so striking that it has caused me to shy away from ale yeast under pressure and going forward i will only ferment lager yeasts under pressure.

ymmv

i am thinking up a wc pale ale right now with bry 97 and have decided not to go with pressure.

this has just been my experience however and i have come to learn that many other factors in my process may be responsible for failed or not great beers. my experience are the result of very small sample sizes and hopefully you have better luck.


please let us know how it turns out.

Like fluketamer I too made a great Klosch in an Fermzilla allrounder. Used 34/70 and I ran mine at 15psi and ambient temp of about 70 degrees. Fermented quickly, kegged it and had a great clear beer.

 

[odie]

My general rule...and probably the general consensus of pressure fermentation...

Ales...no...until mostly finished...ale yeast needs to "express itself" at the beginning.

Lagers...yes...and can run them at ale temps under pressure as well.

A Kolsch is an ale, but fermented as a lager (both temperature wise and the lagering period after fermentation). So under pressure is probably just fine. especially if you are going to use Kolsch yeast at typical ale temps.

I am in the middle of a Kolsch. 60 degrees but should be colder. My ferm chamber controller only goes to 60. But I capped it with a 10 psi PRV so it's under pressure from basically the start. Will see how it turns out.

 

[Hoppy2bmerry]

Forgive me, I'm still not understanding the fascination with pressure fermentation...

WLP029 is quite clean whether you ferment under pressure or not. That's my experience. No pressure.

You are correct, the yeast is known to be clean. This is about temperature and getting away with fermenting warm.

 

[wdavis2003]

Like fluketamer I too made a great Klosch in an Fermzilla allrounder. Used 34/70 and I ran mine at 15psi and ambient temp of about 70 degrees. Fermented quickly, kegged it and had a great clear beer.

You made a lager, not a Kolsch. Pressure fermenting 34/70 has given me great results as well

 

[wdavis2003]

Hmmm. Maybe not a great idea. I usually brew about every other weekend and would hate to lose the time more than anything for a dumper batch.
A couple of the first batches I ever brewed were Kolsch with wlp-029 and at room temp, which during the winter was around 68F. I thought they were pretty good and figured I could get away with a bit warmer with some pressure.
Maybe I’ll check out some of the Omega 044 and give it a go. I have a hard time waiting for them to condition, but for a decent Kolsch it would be worth the wait.
I appreciate all the input.

If you can manage to ferment it without pressure, that's what I would do. But @Rich1234 has had great results. Maybe try that yeast out. I don't remember what Kolsch yeast I used.

But I will add, the beauty (to me) of Kolsch yeast is that red apple character you get from the yeast. You will likely not get that with PF

 

[Rich1234]

If you can manage to ferment it without pressure, that's what I would do. But @Rich1234 has had great results. Maybe try that yeast out. I don't remember what Kolsch yeast I used.

But I will add, the beauty (to me) of Kolsch yeast is that red apple character you get from the yeast. You will likely not get that with PF

I should've mentioned. I just put enough co2 on it to start for a positive pressure. Maybe 0.5-1 psi. I let the yeast build the pressure so as to allow it to express itself early. FWIW, mine (-044) has a more pear/white wine character.

If you drink it too early, you're going to get a banana bomb. Maybe even some clove. Like I said, I thought it was a dumper on a couple of batches, but it cleans itself up very nicely. 2 weeks in the FV at 65-70 deg F, and 3 weeks in the corney at ~38 deg F.