Warm Fermented Lager Thread

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Yesfan

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I judge beer totally on the "would I pay $1 for a bottle of this" metric. :D I might ought to up that to $1.50 the way inflation is going......


Nah, go $2.50. That way when it gets to $1.87/bottle, you can say "well, at least it's not $2.50!" as you throw one back.


Future proof..............
 

Miraculix

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I judge beer totally on the "would I pay $1 for a bottle of this" metric. :D I might ought to up that to $1.50 the way inflation is going. I think style guidelines are useful, but I'm not entering anything into competition so it really doesn't matter.
I'm not talking about style guidelines. I don't get these either, waste of time imo. What I meant was that lutra has nothing to do with how lager tastes, it's an ale or kveik or however one would want to call it but it is certainly not a lager.

But if you really got temperature problems, that's your yeast. 37 degrees in the house? No problem! I've made good beers with lutra! I just had a 15% mead yesterday that I brewed with it two or three months ago which already tastes really good. I like this yeast, it is just not lager-ish at all. Clean APA type of yeast with a bit of kveik twang I would say.
 

Miraculix

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I am a fan of Voss Kveik. And I have used T-58 in a wheat beer in the summer with no temperature control and that was good. But both are totally wrong for this beer. I'm also going to try "Jovaru" farmhouse ale yeast this weekend to make a saison; wish me luck. That one also likes the heat.

I'll make a starter with the 34/70 since the packets are a couple of years old and use that. Ferment it as cool as I can and not worry about it 🙃
Tried that jovaru, still have some bottles left. It's a unique flavour, and it really pushes the sweetness, although it gets a really low fg. You might want to add a bit more hops than you would for a saison like this.
 

Beermeister32

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Time after time, brewers want that lager characteristic in their beers. Home brewers go through all sorts of brewing gymnastics to try to get there without a temperature controlled fermenting chamber. Always wanting shortcuts or workarounds…

Your mind will completely change after you begin fermenting in a cold environment. Convince yourself to go find an old $75 mini refrigerator on Craigslist and order yourself an Inkbird temperature controller. Ferment at 50F with lager yeast. DO IT ..!!!!!!
 
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Miraculix

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Time after time, brewers want that lager characteristic in their beers. Home brewers go through all sorts of brewing gymnastics to try to get there without a temperature controlled fermenting chamber. Always wanting shortcuts or workarounds…

Your mind will completely change after you begin fermenting in a cold environment. Convince yourself to go find an old $75 mini refrigerator on Craigslist and order yourself an Inkbird temperature controller. Ferment at 50F with lager yeast. DO IT ..!!!!!!
Could be also a fine example of confirmation bias.

I've had good warm fermented lagers and good cold fermented ones as well. And I wasn't actually expecting warm fermentation to work at the beginning. It's all about choosing the right yeast for it.
 

Beermeister32

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Could be also a fine example of confirmation bias.

I've had good warm fermented lagers and good cold fermented ones as well. And I wasn't actually expecting warm fermentation to work at the beginning. It's all about choosing the right yeast for it.
Yes, I have too. It is just so much easier, with all the styles of lagers brewed to have that one variable, fermentation temperature, eliminated from the equation.

First true temperature controlled lagers I made were like getting hit in the head with a beer-awakening wooden 2”x4”. What a difference, THIS is what I was looking for! What was I thinking???
 

z-bob

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Tried that jovaru, still have some bottles left. It's a unique flavour, and it really pushes the sweetness, although it gets a really low fg. You might want to add a bit more hops than you would for a saison like this.
Thanks for the heads-up. I'll be using pilsner malt and a bunch of wheat flour like you mentioned in another thread, but I don't trust the diastatic power of my malt because it's a couple of years old so I'm only going to go 50/50 with it, not push it to 60% wheat. I also might add just a little aromatic malt because I've got so much of it; I haven't decided about that. I was going to shoot for about 28 IBU, but maybe 35 is a better target. I don't think I wanna go much higher than that. (I'll be using hop tea for bittering, so it's a crap shoot anyway)
 

Miraculix

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Thanks for the heads-up. I'll be using pilsner malt and a bunch of wheat flour like you mentioned in another thread, but I don't trust the diastatic power of my malt because it's a couple of years old so I'm only going to go 50/50 with it, not push it to 60% wheat. I also might add just a little aromatic malt because I've got so much of it; I haven't decided about that. I was going to shoot for about 28 IBU, but maybe 35 is a better target. I don't think I wanna go much higher than that. (I'll be using hop tea for bittering, so it's a crap shoot anyway)
Sounds good to me! I think 30 would be also ok, depending on your personal preference. It's just not as bone dry as other saison yeast's beers are with the same fg.
 

aceluby

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I’ve got a California common that will be bottled next week and used the other half of the yeast for a smash Pilsner/pearle that I made last night, both single gallon brews with 34/70. Next week I should get some MJ yeast in the mail, so I’ll try my hand again at the smash beer and an Oktoberfest. Will be real interesting to compare the 34/70, MJ, and Lutra beers with similar grain/hop profiles
 

CaddyWampus

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It’s been awhile since I’ve contributed to this thread. I’ve currently got a batch going that is mostly 2 row with some corn and Munich in the mix. Decent charge of centennial at 60 minutes and a huge shot at flameout.

34/70 that’s been cooking right along at 70F under 12psi in a corny keg.

Hoping to try my first pour this weekend. I’ll report back!

So I have been drinking on this beer for a few weeks now.

I’ve fermented more than a few beers with 34/70 at room temp or slightly lower and the resulting fermentation character was always clean. I’ve even done a few batches under pressure with not necessarily better, but quicker results.

This beer was fermented in a corner of my house under 12psi and then being the radical scallywag that I am I have even been serving it from the same keg. This is by far the best beer I’ve ever made. I’m not saying the recipe couldn’t have been better, but it is so crisp and flavorful I just get so much joy drinking it.

I contribute that more so to the fact that oxygen has never touched this beer post yeast pitch than to fermentation temp or pressure or whatever else. Now, if I could only get it to clear. That’s a first for me as 34/70 has always dropped with no issues in my experience.

CE822773-5EB2-43CD-B7AC-902B7CD547DE.jpeg


Obviously, home brewers are a very opinionated bunch but I’m probably going to give away my fermentation fridge. I see no reason to let it keep taking up room in my garage. :bigmug:
 

CaddyWampus

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Clarifying - Go make yourself a gelatin injector. BBQ section at Lowes meat injector and some JB Weld.

Bloom your gelatin 5 mins, heat to 165 to Pasteurize. Best results into a chilled keg. Beer is never exposed to oxygen.
View attachment 775989
That’s a cool set up, but I’m not worried enough about appearance to put in that effort.

You could call my brewing style pretty “laissez-faire”.
 

VikeMan

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Clarifying - Go make yourself a gelatin injector. BBQ section at Lowes meat injector and some JB Weld.

Bloom your gelatin 5 mins, heat to 165 to Pasteurize. Best results into a chilled keg. Beer is never exposed to oxygen.

Except for the oxygen dissolved in the gelatin solution. That said, I use a similar rig when I need to use gelatin (not very often). Brewing is chock full of tradeoffs.
 

aceluby

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First taste of my California common during bottling was delicious. No off flavors or esters, just a really clean beer. I’ll let it condition for a week, then throw it into the fridge for a week and see how it blooms.

Also upgrading my system this weekend from my (multiple) 1 gallon setups to an Anvil Foundry, and my first brew is going to be an Oktoberfest where we’re gonna throw a party with that beer, and a few flavors of hefe (regular, apricot, mango, and blueberry). I’m very excited based on these first results
 

balrog

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Clarifying - Go make yourself a gelatin injector. BBQ section at Lowes meat injector and some JB Weld.

Bloom your gelatin 5 mins, heat to 165 to Pasteurize. Best results into a chilled keg. Beer is never exposed to oxygen.
View attachment 775989

My first thought, of course, is "How cool that! I must make one!"
My second thought was, "JBWeld?! Ack. Surely there is a way to find the right threaded coupler or adapters."
My next thought was all the misspent hours of my distant youth, rummaging thought Radio Shack desperately trying to get couplers between two different cable endings, in fewer than 5 stupid different adapters.

Then I decided to have a beer.
 

Beer666

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Pressure fermented a rice lager at 18c using very little el dorado hops, Started at 18c then went up to 20c. A little fruit from the hops but very clean and crisp. Used crossmyloof helles 2 packs for a 26l 1037 wort. Finished at 1004.
 

Slim M

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Lutra is not even close to a lager. Can be a good beer, but these three ones i have mentioned produce far superior beers, if you judge them only on lager-ish taste.
I agree I tried it once and was super cloudy, strangely tangy, & not very lager like. With the right hop combination it’s probably pretty interesting.

Been warm fermenting with CellarScience German or W-34/70 at 62f for 3 days and jumping the temp up to 67f for 4 days then keging, carbing, & storing a couple weeks and it turns out goods results. Been wondering about s-23, never used it but seems like it gets a lot of hate around the web.
 

seatazzz

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I just got five packets of 34/70 from Amazon (very good dating, actually), as my S23 slurry is ready to retire. Haven't used 34/70 in a couple of years since I had a bad batch from a 3rd gen slurry, which was probably my fault anyway. Going to use 34/70 in an all-pilsner batch next weekend with some Hallertau Blanc.
 

Sam_92

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I love 34/70 and I'm also a sucker for ordering off Amazon five or six at a time. I don't remember what generation my current 34/70 is on but it's got to be 5 or 6. The dunkel that was the last beer I brewed with it is still in the fermenter because I've been very busy getting ready for my wife's family to come to town and stay with us and now they're here so I probably won't bottle until next weekend, 34/70 has been my go to yeast all summer and has made some really fantastic pilsners and other lagers even as the temperatures in my basement have risen from 55 degrees to 75.
 

aceluby

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Had a cali common that I brewed w/ 34/70 last night and while it still had that unfinished smell to it, the taste was great. Gonna give the rest some time to finish out and I'm sure it'll be a great beer.

Tomorrow I bottle up some Oktoberfest I brewed with MJ California Lager yeast. I'll likely just pitch the helles I'm planning right on top of the yeast cake on Saturday. Should make for a fun Oktoberfest party in September :)
 

CaddyWampus

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I’ve been enjoying the pressure fermentation lifestyle but my tap is already reserved for another brew. I was wanting a fall lager in inventory so I decided I’d just bottle it after fermenting.

Since I am a godless heathen, I brewed a batch of Vienna Lager up and got the wort chilled down to somewhere between 75°F and 80°F and pitched my 34/70. It will be sitting in my house that averages around 70°F for the next 10 days or so. From my past experiences, I’m betting it will still be tasty. Although, I’ve never actually let a non-pressure fermented batch go over 65°F with 34/70.

E899A999-4B82-46E3-B0D3-4E4FCDEEFFAC.jpeg
 

dmtaylor

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This is very interesting!


Thanks for that link! What I've gathered so far regarding warm-fermented lagers:
  • Rehydration is not needed, just pitch directly.
  • Pitch rate is same as an ale.
  • Diacetyl rest is not needed.
  • Don't reduce temperature until you are sure the fermentation is finished for ~3 days.
All things that I knew already, so far, but still nice to hear it directly from the mouth of an expert.

I'll watch more later.

Cheers.
 
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aceluby

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AC8BD5CE-8359-4384-8786-81DF71D417E9.jpeg


Here’s my warm fermented lager using 34/70. Just a one gallon batch, but dang if this isn’t gonna go fast. Now that I have a good comparison to Lutra, I can definitely say I prefer a warm fermented lager. Kveik makes a really clean ale, but it just doesn’t compare to this beauty. Fermentables are just Pilsner malt and a quarter cup of white sugar to dry it out.
 

Immocles

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I'm mostly on board with this whole warm ferment idea now. I've had really solid results on my last three lagers. While I'm sure I will ferment cold when I can ( basement gets down to the high 40s in the winter anyway, might as well utilize that), I will definitely not hesitate to warm fermenter in the hotter times of the year when I really just want a damn nice lager.
 

Beer666

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Clarifying - Go make yourself a gelatin injector. BBQ section at Lowes meat injector and some JB Weld.

Bloom your gelatin 5 mins, heat to 165 to Pasteurize. Best results into a chilled keg. Beer is never exposed to oxygen.
View attachment 775989
Will this work under 20psi pressure? Have to like the simplicity. Did you use a barb post?
 

Beermeister32

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Yes it was a barbed post. Trim the needle on the injector back a bit and it slides into the barb. Butter it up with JB Weld and add some around the outside.

Usually I inject at around flat to 10 PSI. Give it a try at 20, you might need to hold back the plunger if the pressure is too high.
 

DuncB

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I'm intrigued but I don't think the link you linked linked like you think it linked.
Can't you guess the link then? that's part of the intrigue.

try this.
 

lumbergh

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I have Jamil's Munich Madness fermenting with MJ54. Going to keg soon. I got the Munich and 2 row percentages switched (oops, but who cares). My first lager ever
 

sfrisby

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Had a cali common that I brewed w/ 34/70 last night and while it still had that unfinished smell to it, the taste was great. Gonna give the rest some time to finish out and I'm sure it'll be a great beer.

Tomorrow I bottle up some Oktoberfest I brewed with MJ California Lager yeast. I'll likely just pitch the helles I'm planning right on top of the yeast cake on Saturday. Should make for a fun Oktoberfest party in September :)
Similar to what I did. Brewed a helles with 34/70 and then pitched an octoberfest on top of that yeast cake. We’ll find out next month.
 

aceluby

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Similar to what I did. Brewed a helles with 34/70 and then pitched an octoberfest on top of that yeast cake. We’ll find out next month.
I'm kegging the helles tonight, so we'll see how it goes. The Oktoberfest is nice and malty, it should be very nice by mid September.
 

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I had a really nice tasting, crystal clear and very light color, hoppy "Cold Pale Ale" at South Lake Brewing Company the other day. The brewer told me they use 34/70 at ale temperature for their "Cold" IPA and Pale Ale. There is another thread about Cold IPA, including, disparaging comments about why it is inappropriately named, but it is another application of warm fermented lager yeast in a beer a lot of people are liking.
 

11thStBrewing

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Had a go. 74% Pilsner 26% flaked maize with 10 IBUs Hallertau Mittlefruh. 1.042 OG. 4.6% W34/70 started at 20c @12psi throughout. Ramped after it slowed down and ended at 71F or so.

American lager water profile on Brewfather ,added 0.4g/liter Wyeast nutrient in the boil and Whirlfoc.

Overall very tasty. Way better than like Coor’s etc. too much corn, though. Will use rice or less corn next time. 60 minute boil and I’ve never gotten DMS even boiling this Pilsner malt for 30 minutes.

Threw some mad H2S during fermentation. Any way to mitigate this? I thought it went away and cold crashed on day 10 or so. Was done in 5 days.

Very stinky even after conditioning for a week or so. I got a solid copper piece of wire, but didn’t want to do that. Read that oxygen helps and usually would fine in a way that minimizes oxygen. Cracked the lid on the keg and dumped Biofine in instead.

No hint of oxidation(yet) and H2S is gone. Would love to figure out how to make it not do that if anyone knows.
 

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balrog

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I had a cream ale that never gave up all the sulfur in the keg. I did not try purging daily (with CO2 of course) over a week or so however.

I just poured each pint w copper tube swizzle stick in the glass. A clean copper tube.
 

VikeMan

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Corn has a lot of sulfur.

I may be misinterpreting what you mean by this, but corn actually contains less sulfur than barley or wheat. If I were having an issue with sulfur compounds in a beer with corn, I'd be looking at yeast nutrients. Corn has less FAN than barley malt, and a FAN deficiency can cause increased H2S.
 

11thStBrewing

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Corn has a lot of sulfur. Less corn might give you less sulfur. Anyway, H2S ages out on its own after about 3 weeks. All you need is patience and it will disappear.
Any idea how that works? Is there any chance people are cracking he lid when fining and oxygen is doing it?

I had a cream ale that never gave up all the sulfur in the keg. I did not try purging daily (with CO2 of course) over a week or so however.

I just poured each pint w copper tube swizzle stick in the glass. A clean copper tube.
I forgot, I blew it off a ton with CO2, but with a floating dip tube from the top. Didn’t seem to do anything. Seemed like it did at first, but was still there.
 

11thStBrewing

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I may be misinterpreting what you mean by this, but corn actually contains less sulfur than barley or wheat. If I were having an issue with sulfur compounds in a beer with corn, I'd be looking at yeast nutrients. Corn has less FAN than barley malt, and a FAN deficiency can cause increased H2S.
Maybe it just needs more nutrients then? I definitely want to brew more of these. Will try on the next one.
 
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