Quantcast

Want to Build Single Vessel Electric BIAB System

HomeBrewTalk.com - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Community.

Help Support Homebrew Talk:

Paul_Aris

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 22, 2009
Messages
312
Reaction score
59
Location
Michigan
I want to build one that is simple. I really like something like the brewboss where I an remove the element. I am thinking just a simple PID controller with a switch for the pump. I am wondering if anyone has a parts list of a cost effective solution one can do themselves. Like where can it get the COFI style filter and what pot would I buy to fit it etc? I would like to do 10 gallon batches and sometimes double IPA's would I need a 20 gallon pot then?
 

doug293cz

BIABer, Beer Math Nerd, ePanel Designer, Pilot
Staff member
Mod
Lifetime Supporter
Joined
May 14, 2014
Messages
10,989
Reaction score
7,120
Location
Renton
A "simple" e-BIAB system is just a bag in a pot with an element, but no recirculation. A pump would only be used for wort transfer or whirlpooling/chilling. Nothing wrong with adding recirc if that's what you want, but it is no longer a simple system (although it is still simpler than a multi-vessel recirc system.)

I'd recommend an Auber EZBoil controller over a generic PID. They don't have to be tuned (so they tend to be more stable), they're more intuitive for setting boil power, and the higher end models can to automatic step mashing.

You looking to DIY a control panel, or buy a turn-key system?

Depending on grain absorption, and conversion efficiency, mash volume for a 1.080 OG beer could be upwards of 18 gal for a 10 gal batch. So, a 25 gal pot might be more appropriate for 10 gal batches of big beers. You could get by with a smaller pot for big beers if you were willing to do a little sparging instead of full volume mashing.

Brew on :mug:
 
OP
Paul_Aris

Paul_Aris

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 22, 2009
Messages
312
Reaction score
59
Location
Michigan
A "simple" e-BIAB system is just a bag in a pot with an element, but no recirculation. A pump would only be used for wort transfer or whirlpooling/chilling. Nothing wrong with adding recirc if that's what you want, but it is no longer a simple system (although it is still simpler than a multi-vessel recirc system.)

I'd recommend an Auber EZBoil controller over a generic PID. They don't have to be tuned (so they tend to be more stable), they're more intuitive for setting boil power, and the higher end models can to automatic step mashing.

You looking to DIY a control panel, or buy a turn-key system?

Depending on grain absorption, and conversion efficiency, mash volume for a 1.080 OG beer could be upwards of 18 gal for a 10 gal batch. So, a 25 gal pot might be more appropriate for 10 gal batches of big beers. You could get by with a smaller pot for big beers if you were willing to do a little sparging instead of full volume mashing.

Brew on :mug:

Ok maybe not simple then. Recirculation really doesn't seem that complicated. I like the idea of the EZBoil Controller. I was thinking I would build my own control panel.
 

doug293cz

BIABer, Beer Math Nerd, ePanel Designer, Pilot
Staff member
Mod
Lifetime Supporter
Joined
May 14, 2014
Messages
10,989
Reaction score
7,120
Location
Renton
Do you have a design for the panel, or are you capable of designing your own? If not, I can help.

Brew on :mug:
 
OP
Paul_Aris

Paul_Aris

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 22, 2009
Messages
312
Reaction score
59
Location
Michigan
Do you have a design for the panel, or are you capable of designing your own? If not, I can help.

Brew on :mug:
No design right now. I would like to follow someone elses design that is proven to work. Shouldn't be too bad for one pot?
 

doug293cz

BIABer, Beer Math Nerd, ePanel Designer, Pilot
Staff member
Mod
Lifetime Supporter
Joined
May 14, 2014
Messages
10,989
Reaction score
7,120
Location
Renton
No design right now. I would like to follow someone elses design that is proven to work. Shouldn't be too bad for one pot?
No, I have several designs for single kettle. With and w/o pump switch, ugly main power switch vs. more aesthetic power switch, etc. Do you know what you want included in your control panel?

Brew on :mug:
 
OP
Paul_Aris

Paul_Aris

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 22, 2009
Messages
312
Reaction score
59
Location
Michigan
No, I have several designs for single kettle. With and w/o pump switch, ugly main power switch vs. more aesthetic power switch, etc. Do you know what you want included in your control panel?

Brew on :mug:
Note really, I'm open to suggestions. I am thinking a the heater cole controller, on off swtihc pump sithc and may be an indicator light that the pump in on. What about a a Pot or something to turn heater coil up quick?
 

doug293cz

BIABer, Beer Math Nerd, ePanel Designer, Pilot
Staff member
Mod
Lifetime Supporter
Joined
May 14, 2014
Messages
10,989
Reaction score
7,120
Location
Renton
The EZBoil controllers have the "accelerated heat up" function built in. That's one of the handy features. What about any alarms, or interlocks to prevent power on when pumps or elements are "on"?

Brew on :mug:
 
OP
Paul_Aris

Paul_Aris

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 22, 2009
Messages
312
Reaction score
59
Location
Michigan
The EZBoil controllers have the "accelerated heat up" function built in. That's one of the handy features. What about any alarms, or interlocks to prevent power on when pumps or elements are "on"?

Brew on :mug:
An alarm when we reach temperature would be handy. What alarms do you use?
 

doug293cz

BIABer, Beer Math Nerd, ePanel Designer, Pilot
Staff member
Mod
Lifetime Supporter
Joined
May 14, 2014
Messages
10,989
Reaction score
7,120
Location
Renton
I just set timers on my phone - don't use temp alarms myself. An alarm on reaching a temp is within the capability of EZBoils and most PID's. It's not about what I use or want, it's about what you want (and can afford.)

Brew on :mug:
 
OP
Paul_Aris

Paul_Aris

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 22, 2009
Messages
312
Reaction score
59
Location
Michigan
I just set timers on my phone - don't use temp alarms myself. An alarm on reaching a temp is within the capability of EZBoils and most PID's. It's not about what I use or want, it's about what you want (and can afford.)

Brew on :mug:
OK, probably no need for timers or alarms then. I don't need to do it on the cheap but want to go cheaper than simply purchasing a $1600 already built system. I don't see the need to add additional cost for things I don't need or may not use. With that said I would like to recirculate during my mash and probably do a screen metal type filter that can be lifted out after the mash. Bags can get messy. I think for the pump ports at the bottom and at the top of kettle going with a stainless shut off at the bottom of kettle and the 1/2" High Flow Type C Camlock connectors
 
Last edited:

Bobby_M

Vendor and Brewer
HBT Sponsor
Joined
Aug 3, 2006
Messages
25,064
Reaction score
3,915
Location
Whitehouse Station
Since the ezboil has timers and alarms built in, the only other function that really matters is a switch for element enable/disable along with either an indicator light or lighted switch. Finally, a red indicator that shows element "firing". Pump switch if using a pump.
 
OP
Paul_Aris

Paul_Aris

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 22, 2009
Messages
312
Reaction score
59
Location
Michigan
Since the ezboil has timers and alarms built in, the only other function that really matters is a switch for element enable/disable along with either an indicator light or lighted switch. Finally, a red indicator that shows element "firing". Pump switch if using a pump.
Sounds like that is all I need a ports to plug everything in. As far as the temp probe would you recommend going down low to the bottom so its under grain basket? As far as recirculation I've seen it down a couple of ways. I see a nozzle that sprays a nice pattern from lid and I have seen a side port up high where you attach a hose and lay it in there so it almost whirlpools. I have used this method with the sabco brew magic. What does everyone prefer?
 
OP
Paul_Aris

Paul_Aris

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 22, 2009
Messages
312
Reaction score
59
Location
Michigan
Anyone have a simple control panel diagram with what I talked about wiht an EZboil in it?
 

Bobby_M

Vendor and Brewer
HBT Sponsor
Joined
Aug 3, 2006
Messages
25,064
Reaction score
3,915
Location
Whitehouse Station
Sounds like that is all I need a ports to plug everything in. As far as the temp probe would you recommend going down low to the bottom so its under grain basket? As far as recirculation I've seen it down a couple of ways. I see a nozzle that sprays a nice pattern from lid and I have seen a side port up high where you attach a hose and lay it in there so it almost whirlpools. I have used this method with the sabco brew magic. What does everyone prefer?
Yes, I recommend the probe go under the grain bag/basket. I do not recommend spraying hot wort. I use locline installed through the lid which allows you to perfectly position the outflow at the top of the grainbed.
 
OP
Paul_Aris

Paul_Aris

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 22, 2009
Messages
312
Reaction score
59
Location
Michigan
Yes, I recommend the probe go under the grain bag/basket. I do not recommend spraying hot wort. I use locline installed through the lid which allows you to perfectly position the outflow at the top of the grainbed.
Sounds good. Similar to the method I used on the Sabco Brew Magic. Just a hose you lay on the grain bed.
 

doug293cz

BIABer, Beer Math Nerd, ePanel Designer, Pilot
Staff member
Mod
Lifetime Supporter
Joined
May 14, 2014
Messages
10,989
Reaction score
7,120
Location
Renton
Ok, here is a design for a one element, one pump controller with a "Safe Start" interlock that prevents the control panel from powering up unless the pump and element switches are off.

DSPR300 1-Pump 1-Element 240V rev-2.PNG


Let me know if you have any questions.

Edit: updated with revises version. Improved "Safe Start" interlock.

Brew on :mug:
 
Last edited:
OP
Paul_Aris

Paul_Aris

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 22, 2009
Messages
312
Reaction score
59
Location
Michigan
Ok, here is a design for a one element, one pump controller with a "Safe Start" interlock that prevents the control panel from powering up unless the pump and element switches are off.

View attachment 676010

Let me know if you have any questions.

Brew on :mug:
Looks pretty simple and all I really need. Thanks.
 

doug293cz

BIABer, Beer Math Nerd, ePanel Designer, Pilot
Staff member
Mod
Lifetime Supporter
Joined
May 14, 2014
Messages
10,989
Reaction score
7,120
Location
Renton
Looks pretty simple and all I really need. Thanks.
Be sure to note that the pump and element power enable switches must be 1NO, 1NC DPST, and the main power switch is 2NO DPST. The front panel of the EZBoil provides a power on indication.

Brew on :mug:
 

kniper

Member
Joined
Jan 10, 2021
Messages
5
Reaction score
0
I updated the design in this post to improve the "Safe Start" interlock.

Brew on :mug:
First of all (since I'm a newbie on this forum), greetings to all forum members! You're doing a great job! Not to mention the work doug293 is doing, amazing indeed!

I'm planning to build the same electric system for me and have a question/dilemma regarding the SS interlock - namely, I would like to understand how does it work? (Since the level of my electric skills is next to nothing, this question most likely sounds bizarre, I'm aware of this.)
Also, I have to mention that I'm living in Europe so I'm using a 230V electricity with 3 power lines: line, neutral and ground. For that reason, some modifications have to be done in the scheme. For example: at both contactors and at the element receptacle, line 2 has to be replaced with neutral; and at the pump receptacle, line 2 is replaced with line 1, am I right?
Now the main question - functioning of the SS interlock. I do understand that the voltage for SS interlock is running through the blue power line, through NC ports of pump- and element switches before coming to one of the two NO ports of the main switch. When the main switch is turned on, voltage, provided by the blue line, reaches the coil of the contactor, resulting in the electricity being able to run through the contactor (namely through the "line" and "neutral" lines in my case) to the rest of the power circle, including the voltage to flow to the main switch through the line with 1 amp fuse (written at the right of the main switch). My concern is if there is no issue since now the electricity can run through the both NO ports of the main switch through two power lines simultaneously: throught the blue line and at the same time through the above mentioned line with 1 amp fuse, which is supplied with electricity, coming from the opened contactor, is that correct? Hopefully I described my concern correctly.

But since I'm sure this wiring scheme has been tested several times, I'm also sure I've missed something in my understanding so I would be grateful for the explanation.
 

doug293cz

BIABer, Beer Math Nerd, ePanel Designer, Pilot
Staff member
Mod
Lifetime Supporter
Joined
May 14, 2014
Messages
10,989
Reaction score
7,120
Location
Renton
First of all (since I'm a newbie on this forum), greetings to all forum members! You're doing a great job! Not to mention the work doug293 is doing, amazing indeed!

I'm planning to build the same electric system for me and have a question/dilemma regarding the SS interlock - namely, I would like to understand how does it work? (Since the level of my electric skills is next to nothing, this question most likely sounds bizarre, I'm aware of this.)
Also, I have to mention that I'm living in Europe so I'm using a 230V electricity with 3 power lines: line, neutral and ground. For that reason, some modifications have to be done in the scheme. For example: at both contactors and at the element receptacle, line 2 has to be replaced with neutral; and at the pump receptacle, line 2 is replaced with line 1, am I right?
Now the main question - functioning of the SS interlock. I do understand that the voltage for SS interlock is running through the blue power line, through NC ports of pump- and element switches before coming to one of the two NO ports of the main switch. When the main switch is turned on, voltage, provided by the blue line, reaches the coil of the contactor, resulting in the electricity being able to run through the contactor (namely through the "line" and "neutral" lines in my case) to the rest of the power circle, including the voltage to flow to the main switch through the line with 1 amp fuse (written at the right of the main switch). My concern is if there is no issue since now the electricity can run through the both NO ports of the main switch through two power lines simultaneously: throught the blue line and at the same time through the above mentioned line with 1 amp fuse, which is supplied with electricity, coming from the opened contactor, is that correct? Hopefully I described my concern correctly.

But since I'm sure this wiring scheme has been tested several times, I'm also sure I've missed something in my understanding so I would be grateful for the explanation.
You are correct about the modifications required to convert this design to European single phase 230V power systems. I can provide a modified drawing if you would like.

There is no concern with having voltage on the blue wire during operation.

Brew on :mug:
 

kniper

Member
Joined
Jan 10, 2021
Messages
5
Reaction score
0
You are correct about the modifications required to convert this design to European single phase 230V power systems. I can provide a modified drawing if you would like.

There is no concern with having voltage on the blue wire during operation.

Brew on :mug:
If it's not too much of a problem for you to make an European drawing, I would be grateful.
Thank you anyways!
 

kniper

Member
Joined
Jan 10, 2021
Messages
5
Reaction score
0
@doug293cz I forgot to mention that I will be using a 3.500 W heating element. (This info most likely affects the wire- and breaker size, I suppose?)
 

doug293cz

BIABer, Beer Math Nerd, ePanel Designer, Pilot
Staff member
Mod
Lifetime Supporter
Joined
May 14, 2014
Messages
10,989
Reaction score
7,120
Location
Renton
@doug293cz I forgot to mention that I will be using a 3.500 W heating element. (This info most likely affects the wire- and breaker size, I suppose?)
Will you be using an existing circuit in your house, or installing a new circuit for brewing? If using an existing circuit, you size the wires based on the trip rating of the existing circuit breaker. If installing a new circuit, the wire and breaker are sized based on the current that your system will draw.

Breakers for the high current paths in the control panel are only needed if you want to downsize some of the wiring in the panel. For example, the main power source is 6AWG sourcing up to 50A, and you want to have branch circuits in the panel wired with 10AWG (much easier to work with than 6AWG) for your multiple elements.

Brew on :mug:
 

kniper

Member
Joined
Jan 10, 2021
Messages
5
Reaction score
0
Will you be using an existing circuit in your house, or installing a new circuit for brewing? If using an existing circuit, you size the wires based on the trip rating of the existing circuit breaker. If installing a new circuit, the wire and breaker are sized based on the current that your system will draw.

Breakers for the high current paths in the control panel are only needed if you want to downsize some of the wiring in the panel. For example, the main power source is 6AWG sourcing up to 50A, and you want to have branch circuits in the panel wired with 10AWG (much easier to work with than 6AWG) for your multiple elements.

Brew on :mug:
An existing house circuit will be used. Since there will be only one heating element (+ pump and PID with significantly lower power consumption), I was planning to use 2.5 mm2 wire (I believe that is 14 AWG) for the input and output wiring since the current shouldn't exceed 20 Amps. Wiring of PID and SS interlock would be done using smaller diameter wires, of course.
If I understand you correctly, you recommend using fuses instead of breakers? That is perfectly fine with me. So in my case the fuses remain 1 Amp and 10 Amps, as in your drawing above?
 

kniper

Member
Joined
Jan 10, 2021
Messages
5
Reaction score
0
@doug293cz I've just been drawing a primitive version of your scheme being modified for my needs. So in case you're still willing to draw a modified wiring, I would really appreciate it!
 
Top