W-34/70 Phenolic?

[konofaye]

I used 34/70 for a Pilsener (Pils, Vienna, Carafoam, Biscuit; Saaz and Pacific Jade) I brewed before Thanksgiving and am now getting a strong phenolic character in the beer. It was clean for several months, scored high 30s in a local competition, and had a nice lager character for that time.

I fermented at 52 for 3 weeks and moved to 60 for 4 more weeks, since then it's been about 65 or so in bottles in the basement. I brew 2-3 times a month and this is the first beer that's gone in this direction, so although it could be my equipment, I suspect it may be the yeast itself.

Has anyone else encountered this issue with the yeast?

Fortunately the grain bill, hop selection and hopping rate all work for a Belgian-style beer, so I just have a case of Patersbier instead of lager. Would like to quash this issue, if there is one, though, before it ruins a batch in the future.

Thanks!

 

[beerlover77]

I've used it lots, ferment around 10c and have always ended up with clean Lagers

 

[konofaye]

I've used it lots, ferment around 10c and have always ended up with clean Lagers

Yeah, I've had many beers - including others I've made - with this strain and all came out clean. Pleasant mistake, but making me wonder if it's time for a deep clean. Stout made before and hefeweizen made after came out without any issues.

 

[waldoar15]

I've never had it happen, but my beer never sees temps that high except for a few days of D-rest.

 

[Sammy86]

I use the brulosophy quick lager method with 34/70 and I’ve never been able to detect phenols in my beer...always crisp and clean...maybe and I’m just spit balling here but could the carbonation from the bottles be the culprit as they eat the sugar to make CO2?

 

[waldoar15]

BTW, does every bottle have this? Just asking because back when I bottled I missed some smutz now and then cleaning them and would get an infected bottle.

 

[dmtaylor]

This yeast is not phenolic at all. Must be contamination.

 

[FVillatoro]

Sounds like contamination.

34/70 has always been a clean fermenter, with the exception that I detect a tart-lemon-like flavor in some brews.

 

[Mutant]

I made three lagers with 34/70. Two were Gold (Am Lager) and Silver (Light Am Lager) at CA State Fair. The third was a 1st stab at a Peroni Clone. The only change was the yeast from Czech Lager. All three had a lemon-flavor and none would medal at any competition.

 

[dmtaylor]

I made three lagers with 34/70. Two were Gold (Am Lager) and Silver (Light Am Lager) at CA State Fair. The third was a 1st stab at a Peroni Clone. The only change was the yeast from Czech Lager. All three had a lemon-flavor and none would medal at any competition.

Lemon more likely comes from your hops, and could be a terroir thing. I guess it's possible it's from the yeast. I wonder how many others detect lemon with W-34/70.

 

[brewbama]

The higher the OG and lower the temp dictates more yeast. Insufficient pitch rate can create stress. Stress can cause funny reactions.

 

[rtstrider]

I got this many times with w34/70. Never gave up though and eventually found the culprit. Chloramines! So it wasn't the yeast after all

 

[Gusso]

I've used 34/70 about 5 times so far. I ferment in the upper 60's, low 70's under pressure. No issues to date.

 

[Beermeister32]

If it is happening months later after being good for several months, probably is some bacterial infection I would guess. Might take several months to take over.

 

[Dland]

Have used 34/70 dozens of times, even experimented w under pitched rates, (1 pk to 10 gallons, though did oxygenate), to adding new wort to full active yeast cake, (which is technically over pitched), run it at temps between 52F and 65F. Have not detected any off flavors. Any citrus notes in resulting beers came from hops and was intentional.

Might get off flavors at higher temps though.

 

[thehaze]

The yeast is POF-, so it cannot possibly develop phenolics. What you are describing ressembles contamination with a wild/diastaticus yeast.

Pacific Jade hops can showcase citrus, but also notes of " crushed black pepper ". The description is on the " nzhops "website. From using this hop, I can attest to their black pepper aroma and flavour. It melds well with the esters and phenolics from Belgian yeast and also goes well in lighter Golden/Pales, when mixed with other hops. Could it be that the peppery flavour is now more pronounced? You could be perceiving that as phenolic. Maybe.

 

[Bohern]

Lemon more likely comes from your hops, and could be a terroir thing. I guess it's possible it's from the yeast. I wonder how many others detect lemon with W-34/70.

I got one on tap now with a lemon like taste in the finish and was done with 34/70. I was searching to see if it was just me but from reading thread I guess not now. Hmmmm

 

[rburrelli]

I seem to recall that 34/70 is POF negative so phenols are almost impossible.

 

[dmtaylor]

IIRC, lemon is a terpene, not a phenol.

 

[Mutant]

Lemon is there. I'm not happy that I dumped 3 kegs of beer. Now it is just too hot to want to make beer. Today 112F. Bought a 12-pack of Victoria yesterday. Don't remember the last time I bought any beer.

 

[lablover]

No, it's one of the cleanest yeasts out there if you keep it mid-60's or lower.

 

[Mutant]

No, it's one of the cleanest yeasts out there if you keep it mid-60's or lower.

I have five kegerators and use them to manage temperatures of fermentation, lagering, yeast storage, and consumption. Never had such an off-flavor with any other yeast. I can only report what occurred for me.

 

[Bohern]

No, it's one of the cleanest yeasts out there if you keep it mid-60's or lower.

I did mine @ 65 under pressure and not under pressure. I know everyone swears by it and I want to use it for a lager but I keep coming up with results. I just changed the yeast to see if I get the same result.

 

[Beermeister32]

How about blending it into a Lemon Shandy or a Radler?

.....as the old saying goes.... “When life gives you lemons, you make lemonade...!!!”

 

[Granite03]

Yeah I just did a Maibock with this yeast at 53F and got green apple.

 

[Bohern]

How about blending it into a Lemon Shandy or a Radler?

.....as the old saying goes.... “When life gives you lemons, you make lemonade...!!!”

I have to admit I thought it may be a great choice to use for a Citra to add some complexity...

 

[Beermeister32]

Is anyone aware of a POF+ and POF- yeast chart available to brewers? Something that shows most of the currently available yeasts?

 

[ThatVideoKid]

I can't think of a chart per say, but its pretty easy to tell. If the yeast is known for its phenolics, its POF+, almost every other strain is POF- as thats what's been selected for over time.

So its breaks down to pretty much every English, Lager, American, Kveik, and most German ale yeasts being POF-. Most Belgians, Wilds, and Hefeweizen yeasts being POF+.

Edit: Oh and wine yeasts are a mixed bag since the phenols are largely malt derived, so the selective pressure isn't as strong there.

 

[dmtaylor]

There are tables out there, I don’t have access to it at the moment but I’ll have to try to remember to go look for it later.