Vorlauf Vessel

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caskconditioned

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Does anyone use a vorlauf vessel in their system? I'm talking about a vessel that is used to collect liquid from the Mash Tun. Then a pump is attached to the vessel and the wort is returned to the MT. They are used to help balance/regulate the out-flow from the MT and the input to the pump. Akin to what many large breweries use.

I use a HERMS and recirculate during almost the entire mash. Using a vorlauf vessel would help regulate the out-flow from the MT without worrying about compacting the grain bed. I'm also planning on wiring up a float switch so that my pump will turn on/off based on the liquid level in the vorlauf vessel. As the grain bed gets settled, I could open the valve on the MT a little more and the rest would stay in balance (pump would just cycle on more often). Hope I'm making sense.

I've searched but couldn't find anything on the board - maybe I'm using the wrong search term?
 
Yes, it's called a grant and yes, you are making sense. It should work just as you describe and so will the float switch. I don't do it that way, but quite a few others do and it works for them.
 
So, the "grant" acts as a buffer chamber to keep the pump from running dry?

:confused:

ETA: I guess so:

"When using a pump to move wort from the lauter tun to the kettle, it is easy to pull liquid from the tun faster than the grain bed wants it to flow, compacting the bed and causing a stuck runoff. Aside from being a large pain, a stuck runoff can also damage the pump (magnetically coupled pumps can be damaged if run dry).

One solution to this problem is to purchase a speed controller for your pump, but these are expensive. Another option is to install a ball valve on the outlet side of a centrifugal pump to restrict flow, but ball valves can be difficult to use for fine-tuning liquid flow. A lauter grant represents another possibility.

A lauter grant is simply a vessel that collects the wort from the lauter tun. The pump is plumbed directly to the lauter grant instead of the lauter tun. Gravity gently pulls the wort from the lauter tun, thus minimizing compression of the grain bed. A float switch can be used to turn the pump on when the grant is full, thus freeing the brewer to tend to other things."

http://brewadvice.com/questions/1157/what-is-a-grant
 
Yup....I don't see too many homebrewers do it, but on a bigger scale it's feasible. There's pluses and minuses, mainly heat loss. But the plus side is that you can usually also use a grant as a hopback if it's built for it.
 
I have only seen one home brewer use a grant, but my local brewpub uses one and pumps from there to the boil kettle. I'm pretty sure he doesn't do a RIMS
 
Yup....I don't see too many homebrewers do it, but on a bigger scale it's feasible. There's pluses and minuses, mainly heat loss. But the plus side is that you can usually also use a grant as a hopback if it's built for it.
In my application the wort will be traveling through the HERMS after the grant so it can help keep temps in check. I love the dual-function idea of using it both as a vorlauf grant and a hopback!

I'm thinking of buying one of those SS canisters with a glass lid at one of the big stores and then using weld-less fittings to convert it. I will try to remember to post my results here once I have it built and operational.
 
I don't vorlauf back to the mt, I have a 1/2 gallon measuring cup set in the bottom of the boil kettle and vorlauf into that. When the runoff goes clear I move the runoff to the bk, after the grain settles out in the measuring cup I pour it into the bk through a tea strainer
 
I kind of use a grant I guess... I too knew that word but had long since forgotten it.

I use a large super-fine mesh nylon bag and stick the 1/2" hose coming out of my mash tun into it.

I do happen to have an extra 15-gallon Polarware stainless mash tun laying around. And, I have thought about fitting the false bottom with a fine-filter screen.

Our system here is gravity fed (no pumps) I couldn't see why I couldn't collect my wort in grant (the extra mash tun) before transferring it to the boiler.


EDIT: Just learned from Revvy that this setup is called an 'underback' as it sits below the mash tun.
 
I use a grant and pump for vorlaufing and kettle filling. I like to gravity drain out of the mash tun and I can catch if grain starts to come through on the way to the boil kettle and just recirc it back to the mash until clear again. The wort in the kettle is crystal clear.

Grant:




Kettle filling:


Recirc/sparge manifold:


I used to use a smaller grant (was too small) and a pump down relay with sensors but prefer to do it manually now.

Asparagus steamer grant:


In action during recirc:
 
dstar26t - looks pretty awesome (SS is just plain sexy).

Question: why do you have not only a SS mesh false bottom, but also a strainer bag in your grant? Do you really end up catching a lot of material after vorlaufing and filling up the kettle? Do you have a manifold in your mashtun? Just seems a bit overkill, so I wanted your explanation. EDIT: it looks like that is for FWH from your pics. Do you only use the strainer bag when FWH?

Btw, the corny grant is a sweet idea. Finally give them pin-locks some real love.

Also, are you using purely steam to mash? I noticed your mashtun (its a keg, right?) is sitting on a table top and it doesn't look like their is a burner there.

Another question: in your wort chilling pic., are you pumping coldwater through your copper coil in the ice bath, or is that wort going through the coil after it leaves the CFC? Can't really tell from the pic (damn 2-D!).
 
The false bottom in the grant would clog with grain bits so I started using the bags (one inside the other). Using steam means lots of stirring (but very fast temp change), so I may get more grain through the false bottom in the mash tun than people that use RIMS or HERMS. In a 12 gallon batch, there's usually about a cup or two of grain in the bag at the end. That pic that looks like FWH'ing is the mash tun with mash hops added.
I don't use anything to heat the mash except for steam, yes the MLT is a keg.
Wort goes from the kettle to a pump to a CFC using hose water then into a coil immersed in an ice bath then into the fermenters. When that set-up is running full tilt (including a pond pump in the ice water to move the ice water around the coil), it cools from boiling to 45F (and less) in one pass.
This pic includes a hopback (Imperial Pilsner recipe), you can see the old smaller grant doubled as the hopback:
 
dstar - Nice. I will prolly ask some more questions about your setup soon.

I'm guessing you only use the copper coil in the ice bath when trying to drop down to lager pitching temps? Have you ever tried eliminating the CFC and just using the copper coil in the ice bath?

Have you ever had problems with tarnishing on the inside of the copper coil? What do you do to clean it (I'm guessing it involves the pumps)
 
The temp control with that chilling set-up is nice. If I don't want 42-45F wort (lagers), the pond pump gets turned off. That brings it up to around 55F eventually. If I want 60-65F, the CFC water gets throttled. Sometimes, I can shut the CFC water off completely and still get 65F, but the ice melts at a faster rate. The coil in the ice bath is very effective. It takes 40 lbs of ice (12 gallon batches) which I get for $6.50. Haven't tried using the coil without the CFC yet.
After transferring is finished, hot Oxiclean gets recirculated through the system and then 2 rinse cycles with clean water. When I use hop extract, I have to do 2 longer oxiclean cycles because the extract leaves an annoying residue on everything. A bottling bucket is used for the oxiclean and rinse water because the McMaster QD's conveniently slip right onto the spigot on the bucket.
Since I use steam to mash, the CFC and coil get blasted with it before use. I also recirculate boiling wort through them during the last 15 minutes of the boil. I use a hop stopper in the boil kettle.
 
So, you ALWAYS use the CFC w/ the copper coil in the ice. You just regulate the flow and/or the pond pump to control the output temp.?

Have you ever used just the CFC w/o the copper coil? What temp does that result in, and what temp is your ground water?
 
The post-chiller coil was originally introduced to help the CFC to chill to lager temp. I tried a lot of other things and that is what finally worked, just in May of this year.
Before implementing the post-chiller, I first tried running the hose water for the CFC through one and then two F150 heater cores in series submerged in the ice bath. That didn't work so then I tried pumping straight ice water through the CFC. Nothing worked as well as the post-chiller coil. Since then, I've kept it in line whether I'm brewing an ale, hybrid or lager.
Now that fall is here, I will go back to just using the CFC for ales (and maybe hybrids) since I don't have to buy ice for it. I will still use the post-chiller for lagers in the fall/winter since ground water can't take wort to 45F using the CFC alone.
 
Thanks for taking the time to explain the setup. I'm still in the ol' IC and manual labor phase of cooling my wort, but with 6 gal batches, it aint' too much work. But for my lagers I have to leave them in the ferm. fridge overnight before they reach pitching temps (I always pitch at ferm. temp.). I haven't noticed any ill affects from this longer cooling time before pitching yeast. But it would be nice to be done on the brew day.

I have thought about the copper coil in a ice bath. I mean, nothing is going to chill better than that (high surface area of wort exposed to really cold temps.). But I thought that sanitizing and keeping the coil clean would be a PITA. Btw, I don't have a pump, so I would def. need that before making the switch.

Its a slippery slope, b/c then I would want 10 gal batches, a grant, SS everything, etc. :)

Thanks again.
 
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