Vienna "lager" with Kolsch yeast?

[RedShirt]

My Cousin in Law is looking for something amber colored, relatively clean yeast profile, and balanced between hoppy and malty. A nice Vienna lager came to mind, but my chest freezer is doing full-time keezer duty these days, so I don't have the ability to hold temps in the low to mid 50's currently. The basement is steady at 56, but no real temp control is available right now.

Was thinking about brewing a Vienna lager, using Kolsch yeast and cold-conditioning in the keezer after fermentation is complete.

Has anyone tried this? Any tips? Thanks for any feedback!

 

[FarmerTed]

I've done a Vienna lager with san fran lager yeast that turned out well; I have another going as we speak. If you can get down to 56, you can easily use either the White Labs or Wyeast versions of it.

 

[RedShirt]

Hey now that's a great idea. Thanks!

 

[iijakii]

I think it'd be great. A lot of people do psuedolagers with kolsch yeast. Good thing is they're tasty pretty quick, but if you're wanting the lager-clarity than the kolsch takes a proper lagering.

 

[tonyc318]

I would go with the WLP029 Kolsch instead of the wyeast. I think it highlights the malts a little better. I think it will be great. Especially if you keep it in primary for 3-4 weeks then let it cold condition in a keg or something for another 3 weeks. I feel like the Kolsch yeast does better with a little bit of conditioning. I just kegged a Kolsch and I anticipate it hitting its stride at about 3 weeks in the keg. 4 weeks is even better. Very clean yeast. One of my favorites.

 

[tonyc318]

Oh, forgot to mention, I'm currently putting together a recipe to basically do what you're hoping to do. More or less making a red Kolsch, but with Vienna malt instead of pilsner.

 

[RedShirt]

Great info, thank you.

 

[ghpeel]

Dude I had pretty much this exact idea back a few years ago, and it turned into 1 of my favorite recipes to brew. THIS IS AN AWESOME/UNUSUAL STYLE, go for it!!

My 1st version

"Negra Kolschero" - Vienna Lager / Kolsch hybrid
5.5lb Vienna
1.0lb Flaked corn
1.0lb Munich (the base malt, not CaraMunich)
0.5lb Crystal 40 (or Carabohemian, if you can get it)
2.0oz Carafa III Special (go higher if you want it brown instead of amber)
1.5oz Hallertaur @ First wort hopping
WLP029 w/ 1qt starter
1.049 - 1.012
Ferment at 65F or so, then cold crash and lager for 4-8 weeks.

My notes indicate that the 1st couple pints were kind of corny and nasty, but it was prob just the yeast sediment, so don't freak out if you get that.

I've brewed it a few times since this one, and tweaked it. I use 34/70 lager yeast now (a bit crisper than the Kolsch), 7lb Vienna + 2lbs Munich, no corn, some darker crystal and some Aromatic. Both versions are really good, imho, but you should use the Kolsch if you can't lager less than 50F, in my opinion.

 

[RedShirt]

ghpeel: thanks for the recipe, and that is a fantastic beer name. How much Aromatic did you settle on in your revised recipe...like a 1/4 lb or so?

 

[ghpeel]

I've used 1/2lb twice now and I don't plan on changing the recipe anymore at this point (7lb Vienna, 2lb Munich, .5lb Carabohemian, .5lb Aromatic, 2oz Carafa III). This version is maltier/richer than the original Kolsch effort (I was shooting for Negra Modelo), so its somewhere in the middle of Vienna Lager - Dunkel - SchwarzBier.

My notes indicate that it tastes like a very-clean Brown Ale for the first 2-2.5 months of lagering, so resist the urge to start drinking it at this point, if you can.

A cool experiment would be to up the IBUs to 45 or so and keg-hop this beer after 2-3 months of lagering for a nice hoppy/rich lager. Maybe with Willamette, EKG, or Saaz as the keg hop. Mmmm....

 

[masonsjax]

I basically use 2 yeasts these days: Pacman and Kolsch. Kolsch is great for loads of different styles. It's my favorite yeast in wheat beers of all sorts. It doesn't floc out super fast though, so like mentioned before, you'll need to lager it if clarity is important.

 

[SpeedYellow]

Last time I used Wyeast Kolsch, the beer was very lager-like and I wouldn't have known it was an ale in a blind test. So it's great as a faux-lager, just ferment mid- to low-60s. And I didn't find it got any better with age. Tasted great after carbing in the keg for a mere week or so! Lagers taste a little rough for the first few weeks, but not this.

 

[RedShirt]

Thanks everyone! I have made one beer previously with WLP029 and was similarly impressed with the results. I'll be brewing something this weekend and the lines of the recipe above from ghpeel. Will try to remember to post some follow-ups. Thanks again.

 

[tonyc318]

I'm gonna try
10# Vienna
1# Munich
.5# melanoidin
.5# caramunich.
1oz tettnang @60
1oz tettnang @20
WLP029 with 1.6L starter and fermented @60f

Curious to hear how you rs turns out. I will post back on mine. This should make a great tasting beer. Rich, malty, clean, with a small hint of ale character

 

[eulipion2]

If you can find it, Mangrove Jack US West Coast Ale yeast is a dry version of Pacman. I brewed Jamil's recipe with it, and aside from over attenuating a bit (mash a little higher), it's pretty tasty. Fermented at 62 for 3 weeks, then conditioned in keg.

 

[ghpeel]

I've got that Mangrove Jack's West Coast Ale Yeast fermenting in a Pale Ale right now. Have you tried any of their other strains, eulipion2? This is my first time using them, but I am interested in the Workhorse and the Newcastle & Burton english strains too.

 

[eulipion2]

I've used the Workhorse, Newcastle, and Cider strains. My Workhorse brew was messed up, but not because of the yeast. The other brews turned out quite nice. Definitely give it a go!