Vienna Lager very slow fermentation

[lb81larry23]

I brewed a Vienna Lager recipe on Thurs night 12/10. After wort cooled enough to take a gravity measurement, I was at 1.058 with a 4 gallon quantity. I wanted to maximize keg space (5 gal) but wanted to keep gravity at least 1.052. I added 16oz amber malt extract and 1 gal filtered water after the boil. After stirring profusely, SG measured 1.054, great right.
Not....after pitching White Labs Mex Lager and aerating, I still have almost no visible activity (glass carboy/airlock, krausen). Did the post boil malt extract addition ruin the fermentation ?

 

[boo boo]

Seeing you didn't pitch the ptoper amount of yeast, it is going to take a while for the little bit you did to take off. It may be a while before it shows any sign of fermentation.

How cold is your wort now? Below 42f and it will take a bit longer. Aim for 50f to 52f.

 

[Yooper]

Even though they say "pitchable" on the vials, one vial of yeast is underpitching for a lager. Even on the White Labs' website, they say "To brew a lager beer, starting fermentation 50-55F: 4 pints", referring to a starter. It's hidden at the bottom of this page:

http://www.whitelabs.com/beer/homebrew_starters.html

Your beer should be fine, but a starter should always be made with liquid yeast and most especially with lagers. You'll notice it might take 72 hours or more to get going.

I like mrmalty.com's yeast pitching calculator here: http://www.mrmalty.com/calc/calc.html

I assumed that your yeast was fresh, so I used a date of 11/15/09 for the manufacture date. With only one pack of yeast, you needed a starter of nearly 12 liters! (377 billion cells.) That of course is optimum, but you can see if you only used one vial (75-150 billion cells) that you underpitched by quite a lot!

Another item from White Lab's website:
White Labs Pitchable Yeast

Each vial of White Labs liquid yeast is designed to be used directly in 5 gallons, hence the term "pitchable yeast." Each vial is equivalent in cell count to a pint starter, or 75-150 billion cells. One vial will usually start fermentation in 5 gallons in 5-15 hours at 70°F. If a faster start is desired, or if initial gravity is over 1.070, we recommend a 1-2 pint starter be made.

Homebrewers who enjoy yeast culturing: If a starter is made from a fresh vial, one vial can be added directly to a 2 liter starter, which in 2 days will grow to approximately 240 billion cells, to achieve a pitching rate in 5 gallons of of 1 million cells/ml/degree Plato (with a 12 Plato beer).

 

[lb81larry23]

I asked the guy at the Homebrew shop if I should grab an extra vial of lager yeast for this batch due to previous slow fermentation, he assured me that one vial would be enough. I did put this yeast into a pint of water first, aerated, and then put into the cooled wort. It sounds like that is not enough of a "starter" in the time sense. I has been over 90 hours with no ferment activity. I dropped a packet of saflager23 dry lager yeast into the carboy late last night and put the carboy into the fridge to stabilize the temp down to the high 50's. I will keep my fingers crossed for when I get home from work, if I don't see anything by Wednesday I may brew another batch and actually poor this one out.

 

[Mattbastard]

My LHBS said the same thing about yeast. Apparently the concept of pitching rates eludes some people. He almost fell over when I said I pitched two activators into 5 gal of Hefe.

 

[Yooper]

I asked the guy at the Homebrew shop if I should grab an extra vial of lager yeast for this batch due to previous slow fermentation, he assured me that one vial would be enough. I did put this yeast into a pint of water first, aerated, and then put into the cooled wort. It sounds like that is not enough of a "starter" in the time sense. I has been over 90 hours with no ferment activity. I dropped a packet of saflager23 dry lager yeast into the carboy late last night and put the carboy into the fridge to stabilize the temp down to the high 50's. I will keep my fingers crossed for when I get home from work, if I don't see anything by Wednesday I may brew another batch and actually poor this one out.

Well, the guy at the homebrew shop was wrong! A "starter" though isn't adding water to the yeast (that's rehydrating, for dry yeast). A starter is taking a pint of water and 1/2 cup of dry malt extract, and boiling that up. Cool it, add it to a sanitized growler, and add the yeast and let it ferment out. Scale it up accordingly- if mrmalty says to do a 4 liter starter, make a 4 liter batch of wort, add the yeast and let it ferment out. That's a starter- making more yeast so the batch can ferment properly. It's not hard at all- and it should be done whenever liquid yeast is used.

 

[lb81larry23]

Thanks YooperBrew, lots of great info, especially regarding the "starter". I obviously was wrong about the yeast and should have grabbed a 2nd vial or done a proper starter for this lager. If this thing doesn't move by Wed., should I pitch another vial of liquid yeast, or do a starter to kickstart it ? Cause as of tonite it has no airlock movement, I'm 99% sure the glass carboy/airlock is tight.

 

[Yooper]

Thanks YooperBrew, lots of great info, especially regarding the "starter". I obviously was wrong about the yeast and should have grabbed a 2nd vial or done a proper starter for this lager. If this thing doesn't move by Wed., should I pitch another vial of liquid yeast, or do a starter to kickstart it ? Cause as of tonite it has no airlock movement, I'm 99% sure the glass carboy/airlock is tight.

I'd check the SG. If it's moving, then it's fermenting. It takes a while for the yeast to reproduce, so being patient is good. But it should be well on its way by now. If the SG hasn't changed, then you'll need to repitch tomorrow.

 

[lb81larry23]

Finally got airlock movement after 8+ days. The yeast was "after" its best-by date, don't know if that was the issue or not, maybe it was dormant. Its movin' now, a lot of sulphur aromas coming from the carboy.

 

[Mattbastard]

You're gonna be able to butter your popcorn with it. :cross:

 

[lb81larry23]

Lots of diacetyl ? I dont think this style should have any buttery taste according to style guidelines. Is the slow ferment going to lend more diacetyl ? Can I break and rest to let the yeast re-absorb diacetyl before carbination?

 

[Mattbastard]

I made a lager once. It was an extract, 5 gallons, and I pitched ONE PROPAGATOR!!

Needless to say, it eventually started fermenting about a week later, took about 2 weeks to finish up, and while it did make beer, it was by no means great. You'll make a drinkable beer, but I wouldn't go bragging about it. IMO, there's no way to save it now. You can try a diacetly rest, but the yeast is so stressed I don't think it will do any good. Remember next time, yeast multiply until their colony is dense enough to begin consuming sugar. This multiplication phase is where some off flavors come from. In my experience the shorter the lag phase the better the beer (without overpitching mind you)