Vienna Lager Recommendations?

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naorb

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Hello all,
as you can probably tell im new to the forum. ive brewed once with some success with a coopers lager kit and am ready to move on to brew something with a more favored flavor.

i want to try brewing a vienna lager beer, similar to a dos equis amber. my question is can i use a:
mr. beer vienna lager extract as the base
and for the sugar Coopers Amber Malt Extract?

lastly, i read on this forum that people did not recommend the yeast that comes with the kit so would you recommend buying a seperate lager yeast?

im ultimately trying to make a beer similar to dos equis. if you guys have any different suggestions please dont hesitate

glad to be a part of this forum :)
 
Welcome to the fourm. I would not recomend using a lager yeast unless you can maintain 50 degree fermentation temps. The yeast that comes with the kit is probably an Ale yeast.
 
If you're interested in brewing a vienna lager, do some research before hand.These are the sources I used for my award winning vienna lager.

December 29, 2005 - Vienna Lagers
We talk to Chris Colby of Brew Your Own magazine about Vienna Lagers, a style favored south of the border. Chris takes us through the style and how to make great Vienna lagers at home.

Click to listen-MP3

There's also some good articles as well.

Brew Your Own: The How-To Homebrew Beer Magazine - Vienna Lager: Tips from the Pros - Issues

Brew Your Own: The How-To Homebrew Beer Magazine - Vienna Lager in Exile - Issues

Although it's all grain, you can look at my recipe here.

I followed the suggestions in the podcast and articles.

Sketerbuck's right, unless you are setup for lagering, you should use a clean tasting ale yeast and try to keep the fermentation temp in the low 60's. I would recommend US-o5 and use a swamp cooler/waterbath to keep it cool for the first week.
 
And the latest article in this months mag:
Brew Your Own: The How-To Homebrew Beer Magazine - The Big Chill
 
I wouldn't call the commercial version of Dos Equis Amber a very good example of a Vienna Lager. If you want to make something similar to that, take a Vienna Lager recipe and water it down.

Have you ever had a Blue Point Toasted Lager or Sam Adams Boston Lager? Both very good Vienna Lager beers.

Lots of Sam Adams BL clones out there that you would probably enjoy. Here's one:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/sam-adams-boston-lager-ale-all-extract-clone-132786/

Your Mr. Beer extract would sub for the listed liquid malt extract (LIQ ME).
 
Have you ever had a Blue Point Toasted Lager or Sam Adams Boston Lager? Both very good Vienna Lager beers.
.

Not to be a pr!#& and I do see this a lot and do not know where it originated but Sam Adams Boston Lager is not a Vienna style beer. Perhaps the confusion comes from the color, which is fairly close, but the beer is way too hoppy for a Vienna and it doesn't have any Vienna malt.

Dos Equis Amber and Modelo Negro are at least descended from the original Vienna style and while they do have the somewhat watered down profile of a North American mega brew they do have more than a vestigial resemblance to a Vienna lager. :mug:

P.S. IMO the Sam Lager does not fit properly into any beer style category. Aside from color it's a German Pils, although one with a big dose of medium crystal malt to give it that deep amber color.
 
Made a batch of the Mr. Beer Oktoberfest Vienna Lager, with a couple of deviations from the standard recipe, in September and bottled it at the beginning of October. Have sampled one or two bottles in the last week or so and have to say I'm really proud of this batch. Great flavour, colour, aroma, perfectly carbed:ban:, only problem with it is that I only did a MR. Beer sized(ish) batch (2.5 gallons). Would have been a good move to make a full sized 5 gallon batch.

Anyway, for the 2.5 gallon batch I used two cans of the Oktoberfest HME, one pack of booster, about 4 Oz of honey and 1 packet of Fermentis safale s-04 dry ale yeast.

Double the quantities, other than the yeast, for a 5 gallon batch and you'll be very happy with the results, IMHO:mug:
 
What quantities of the Vienna Lager HME and Amber LME are you planning on using for the batch?? I reckon that if you had 3, or even better 4, cans of HME and 2 lbs, or 3 lbs depending on HME quantity, amber malt extract and about 1 lb of dark brown sugar you'd end up with a great tasting beer:ban::mug:
 
Not to be a pr!#& and I do see this a lot and do not know where it originated but Sam Adams Boston Lager is not a Vienna style beer.

The Sam Adams Web site states that Sam Adams Boston Lager is a Vienna Lager:

Samuel Adams - America's World Class Beer

As does Beer Advocate (Samuel Adams Boston Lager - Boston Beer Company (Samuel Adams) - Boston, MA - BeerAdvocate) and almost every other reference I can find. I've also had quite a few in my day, and it fits the style.

According to BJCP standards, a Vienna Lager should be 18-30 IBUs, and according to the Sam Adams web site, Boston Lager has 30 IBUs.

BJCP standards, 4.5-5.7 ABV, Boston Lager is 4.75 ABV.

BJCP standards, Vienna Lager must use Vienna malts, Sam Adams Boston Lager uses Munich, Pilsner, dextrin, and Vienna malts.

BJCP standards, SRM should be between 10 and 16, Boston Lager is 9.0, so close enough.

Anyway, that's my body of evidence. Sam Adams Boston Lager is a Vienna Lager.
 
BJCP also lists Negra Modelo as a style reference, but not Sam Adams. I do sort of agree that Boston Lager is an interpretation of the style, but it isn't a completely accurate Vienna Lager. Brooklyn Lager makes the same claim, but I believe it falls under the same explanation as Sam.

I also vehemently disagree that Negr Modelo is 'watered down'. That is a near perfect Vienna Lager. Tossing out the BMC digs just because does no one any good.
 
Airborneguy said:
BJCP also lists Negra Modelo as a style reference, but not Sam Adams. I do sort of agree that Boston Lager is an interpretation of the style, but it isn't a completely accurate Vienna Lager. Brooklyn Lager makes the same claim, but I believe it falls under the same explanation as Sam.

I also vehemently disagree that Negr Modelo is 'watered down'. That is a near perfect Vienna Lager. Tossing out the BMC digs just because does no one any good.

Since you brought up the BJCP guidelines, check out the "Comments" section for Vienna Lager, particularly the second sentence...
 
Regardless of the arguments of the style of some commercial examples, I want to mention a couple of things.

First, a Vienna lager isn't done with extract (unless Vienna malt now comes in an extract) as you need Vienna malt. It's also usually done as a decoction, and of course as a lager.

A lager is fermented at 48-52 degrees for about 10 days, then a diacetyl rest is often done at 60 degrees for 48 hours, then the beer is racked and the lagering process begun. The beer is then kept at near freezing temperatures for about 6-10 weeks before packaging. This requires strict temperature control, and a certain strain of yeast.

What that all means is that a Vienna lager is NOT a beginner's beer. Any extract kits that use ale yeast, extract, "booster", etc, may give you a drinkable beer that you will enjoy. But it won't be comparable to a commercial Vienna lager.

You can make a very good beer as an ale, of course. But not a Vienna lager, in the truest sense of what the style is.
 
Since you brought up the BJCP guidelines, check out the "Comments" section for Vienna Lager, particularly the second sentence...

Its comments like those that make me take the BJCP with a grain of salt. The only reason I quoted it was because I was responding to a person who had quoted the BJCP numbers line by line. I wanted to point out the the discription disagreed with his conclusions.

I don't believe a supposedly "objective" listing of descriptors has any place for a description as subjective as the one you pointed out.
 
wow glad i started a heated debate (well, in a way)
so ive continued doing research and yes everyone thanks for the heads up. i definitely cant make a true vienna lager though i will substitute the lager for an ale yeast.

Revvy - i have looked and listened to the references you shared with me. (thanks a lot for them) but i havent found much use in them because theyre at a more advanced brewing level than me.

TopherM - thanks as well for the recommendation of that recipe. i really havent planned on using hops on this brew. do you think this will still be worth a try if i were to sacrifice those ingredients?
i was also looking at other similar recipes and came across this https://makebeer.net/Blog/PostID/101
with only 1 hop ingredient it looks more like what im prepared to do
 
Made a batch of the Mr. Beer Oktoberfest Vienna Lager, with a couple of deviations from the standard recipe, in September and bottled it at the beginning of October. Have sampled one or two bottles in the last week or so and have to say I'm really proud of this batch. Great flavour, colour, aroma, perfectly carbed:ban:, only problem with it is that I only did a MR. Beer sized(ish) batch (2.5 gallons). Would have been a good move to make a full sized 5 gallon batch.

Anyway, for the 2.5 gallon batch I used two cans of the Oktoberfest HME, one pack of booster, about 4 Oz of honey and 1 packet of Fermentis safale s-04 dry ale yeast.

Double the quantities, other than the yeast, for a 5 gallon batch and you'll be very happy with the results, IMHO:mug:

Ogri - thanks for the recommendation especially since youve brewed this yourself before. i was actually ready to buy it from the target site after this and go with your recipe but i just checked now and its out of stock. i may wait about a week to see if it comes back. anyone know how long it took last time to restock?

EDIT - im confused, i had another, separate reply earlier that when i tried posting said it will be checked by admin for approval. howcome this reply went straight through? maybe because this one was shorter??
 

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