Victory vs Munich malt for IPA

[rwing7486]

Hey guys I am trying a new recipe I put together and wanted to change it up a bit. I usually use munich in my IPA's but wanted to try something different and was thinking of using victory malt. Anyone have any experience using victory in an IPA? I dont want to come off with too much of a nutty flavor but I think the right amount could give the hops a nice background. Recipe is listed below....please let me know what you guys think!!! Thanks!

Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
12 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 1 83.5 %
1 lbs Victory Malt (25.0 SRM) Grain 2 7.0 %
12.0 oz Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM) Grain 3 5.2 %
10.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 20L (20.0 SRM) Grain 4 4.3 %
1.00 oz Chinook [13.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 5 38.9 IBUs
0.50 oz Chinook [13.00 %] - Boil 30.0 min Hop 6 14.9 IBUs
0.50 oz Cascade [5.50 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 7 4.1 IBUs
0.50 oz Chinook [13.00 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 8 7.1 IBUs
0.50 oz Cascade [5.50 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 9 1.6 IBUs
1.00 oz Chinook [13.00 %] - Dry Hop 14.0 Days Hop 10 0.0 IBUs
1.00 oz Citra [12.00 %] - Dry Hop 14.0 Days Hop 11 0.0 IBUs

 

[Flipadelphia]

It will definitely give a biscuity flavor to your IPA. If you want to switch from Munich, try Vienna. Just depends on what you want the final flavor profile to end up as.

 

[Falcon3]

I agree on the Vienna- I think Victory lends itself well to a number of styles, just not an american IPA like your hop schedule indicates.
Vienna even in large quantities leaves a nice clean, but rounded malt taste- I had GoodLife Brewing's SweetAs Pacific Ale- mostly Vienna Malt and only 18IBU's but it tastes much like an APA of around 40IBU-

Or try Victory and let us know how it ends up!

 

[Yooper]

I have a few beers that use almost that same grainbill! (Not carapils, though- I almost never use it as I rarely have any on hand).

I like it, but I'd consider going with 5% victory for the first use just to see how "dry" it comes out for your taste and with your water chemistry.

 

[stpug]

IMO,
Victory would be kind of crackery and crisp, whereas munich is more doughy and fresh bread. I think the sub would be great, but I don't think you'd need a pound for pound substitution. I think a half pound of victory would be enough to start with, maybe up to 10-12 ounces (per 5 gallons) if you want it to stand out a bit more.

 

[rwing7486]

Thanks for the feedback guys! I think I will drop the victory malt as suggested to a 0.5lbs (~4-5% of grainbill), add another 0.5lb to my 2row and also thinking of going from 20L to 40L crystal at 4%. If this helps below is the water profile I plan to use.

 

[philosofool]

Rule of Homebrewing No. 2: If it sounds interesting and cool, give it a try once. Repeat as success demands. (First rule: DWRHAHB)

I would say that a half pound of victory adds something nice to an IPA; I tried that many years ago when I first started brewing and I liked the beer a lot. (Charlie Papazian has a victory malt addition in an IPA recipe that I used.) This moderates the sweetness derived from base malts and increases the perception of dryness in the beer. I like that in an IPA. I'm definitely a San Diego style IPA guy and don't like sweetness in my IPA, so there something to let you know how much you care about my opinion.

For what it's worth: I love the hop bill and I won't brew an IPA in the same room as carapils. I like my IPA as light bodied as 1.069 can get.

 

[Nagorg]

Go into your LHBS and ask to taste a grain of both. (Malted barley actually tastes good! ) Imagine what you taste being carried into your beer. Let your taste buds be your guide.

 

[Yooper]

Thanks for the feedback guys! I think I will drop the victory malt as suggested to a 0.5lbs (~4-5% of grainbill), add another 0.5lb to my 2row and also thinking of going from 20L to 40L crystal at 4%. If this helps below is the water profile I plan to use.

I can't see that very well (old eyes) but do you have any acid in there? I'm surprised that you'd need lime in that grainbill at all, but if you have acid in there as well I'd definitely drop the lime and then see how much you can reduce the acid.

 

[mblanks2]

I have a few beers that use almost that same grainbill! (Not carapils, though- I almost never use it as I rarely have any on hand).

I like it, but I'd consider going with 5% victory for the first use just to see how "dry" it comes out for your taste and with your water chemistry.

I make an 11 gallon house IPA with a 3.8% Victory/5.7% Caramel 40L combination and it has been received very well from friends. My next batch will be with a reversal of each to see what the outcome will be.
I use a Burtonized water profile. Makes the hops shine and instead of using Cara-Pils consider flaked wheat.

 

[rwing7486]

I make an 11 gallon house IPA with a 3.8% Victory/5.7% Caramel 40L combination and it has been received very well from friends. My next batch will be with a reversal of each to see what the outcome will be.
I use a Burtonized water profile. Makes the hops shine and instead of using Cara-Pils consider flaked wheat.

I was considering ditching the carapils from what I have been reading. what % of flaked wheat you recommend for an IPA, ~1-2% of grain bill?

 

[rwing7486]

Also what temperature do you guys suggest for mashing? I plan to use US-05 to get a quick clean fermentation. I dont want the beer to be too light/dry/thin so I was thinking right around 152 degrees F would be good. any feedback/input is appreciated

 

[Yooper]

Also what temperature do you guys suggest for mashing? I plan to use US-05 to get a quick clean fermentation. I dont want the beer to be too light/dry/thin so I was thinking right around 152 degrees F would be good. any feedback/input is appreciated

Yes, 152 is great for an IPA.

 

[rwing7486]

Yes, 152 is great for an IPA.

thanks for the feedback yooper. I also appreciated your guidance on my water profile.

 

[mblanks2]

I was considering ditching the carapils from what I have been reading. what % of flaked wheat you recommend for an IPA, ~1-2% of grain bill?

My current recipe has 7.5% flaked wheat. Mash at 152* and ferment with US-05 at 62*F for 21 days. Then dry hop.

 

[rwing7486]

Thinking this might be the final recipe

Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
12 lbs 8.0 oz Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 1 88.5 %
10.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L (40.0 SRM) Grain 2 4.4 %
8.0 oz Victory Malt (25.0 SRM) Grain 3 3.5 %
8.0 oz Wheat, Flaked (1.6 SRM) Grain 4 3.5 %
1.00 oz Chinook [13.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 5 39.7 IBUs
0.50 oz Chinook [13.00 %] - Boil 30.0 min Hop 6 15.2 IBUs
0.50 oz Cascade [5.50 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 7 4.2 IBUs
0.50 oz Chinook [13.00 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 8 7.2 IBUs
0.50 oz Cascade [5.50 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 9 1.7 IBUs
1.0 pkg Safale American (DCL/Fermentis #US-05) Yeast 10 -
1.00 oz Chinook [13.00 %] - Dry Hop 14.0 Days Hop 11 0.0 IBUs
1.00 oz Citra [12.00 %] - Dry Hop 14.0 Days Hop 12 0.0 IBUs

 

[mblanks2]

Thinking this might be the final recipe

Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
12 lbs 8.0 oz Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 1 88.5 %
10.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L (40.0 SRM) Grain 2 4.4 %
8.0 oz Victory Malt (25.0 SRM) Grain 3 3.5 %
8.0 oz Wheat, Flaked (1.6 SRM) Grain 4 3.5 %
1.00 oz Chinook [13.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 5 39.7 IBUs
0.50 oz Chinook [13.00 %] - Boil 30.0 min Hop 6 15.2 IBUs
0.50 oz Cascade [5.50 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 7 4.2 IBUs
0.50 oz Chinook [13.00 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 8 7.2 IBUs
0.50 oz Cascade [5.50 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 9 1.7 IBUs
1.0 pkg Safale American (DCL/Fermentis #US-05) Yeast 10 -
1.00 oz Chinook [13.00 %] - Dry Hop 14.0 Days Hop 11 0.0 IBUs
1.00 oz Citra [12.00 %] - Dry Hop 14.0 Days Hop 12 0.0 IBUs

That looks nice. I typically use 2lbs of the flaked wheat per 10 gallon batch but I think 8oz. should do just fine in a 5 gallon. I would consider cutting back the 14 day dry hop to 7 max. though. I've never dry hopped over 7 days. If you keg you could toss in an ounce each prior to racking for a nice aroma/flavor.
I've got a Founders Centennial IPA Clone and a SN Torpedo Clone that have hops in the keg that have just finished carbing and taste unbelievable.

 

[philosofool]

Also what temperature do you guys suggest for mashing? I plan to use US-05 to get a quick clean fermentation. I dont want the beer to be too light/dry/thin so I was thinking right around 152 degrees F would be good. any feedback/input is appreciated

152 is a bit high for an IPA, which technically is a medium light to medium bodied beer. With an O.G. of 1.065 or so, you're going to get a pretty full beer from a 152 mash that includes a fair amount of crystal malt. However, the growing tendency of home brewers is to brew pretty full IPA and I would certainly tell you that you should brew the beer you want to drink, not limit yourself to some idea of what "IPA" means.