Viability of Using a Dishwasher’s Sanitize Setting

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VikingBrewer

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I know the sanitize setting on dishwashers have been around for a while and older dishwashers may have had questionable results. With the newer dishwashers on the market (We have a newer all stainless interior BOSH) how well do you all think they actually “sanitize” (even inside).


I was thinking these two options;

1. With no additional cleaning, sanitizer or Jet Dry spot remover products, just the sanitize setting.

2. Using/adding StarSan n the dishwasher during cycle.

With option (1), would it still be recommended to StarSan after? It would seem pointless to sanitize in the dishwasher if you still needed to StarSan.

Any other scenarios?

E536325D-71E5-4250-BF8A-D1B7C6CD2563.jpeg
 
Ive read that to have it say sanitize it passes a govt test to ensure that. Ive done put them in but give it a dunk in sanitizer before i bottle. I wouldn't do that with the bottle caps though since they will dry before using and possibly ruin the oxygen absorption. I actually have that same dishwasher I think
 
Looks just like my dishwasher, too. I don't bottle, but I do use the sanitize setting to clean the parts on my stainless steel conical fermenter: ball valves, lid, tri-clover fittings, gaskets, etc. I started doing that after I had back to back infections and haven't had a problem since. I do not use starsan or anything other than a dishwasher pod.
 
Looks just like my dishwasher, too. I don't bottle, but I do use the sanitize setting to clean the parts on my stainless steel conical fermenter: ball valves, lid, tri-clover fittings, gaskets, etc. I started doing that after I had back to back infections and haven't had a problem since. I do not use starsan or anything other than a dishwasher pod.

Everything I wash is done by hand. I haven’t used the dishwasher to wash anything and my Cooper’s 23L fermenter will definitely not fit! 😜

I try and not use actual soap and if I did, I would rinse feverishly as when using bleach to sanitize. I have recently discovered using OXY Powder as a cleanser and I find it amazing.

I have thought about using the OXY in the dishwasher for bottles and small parts cleaning before using the sanitation setting.
 
Considering how small a bottleneck is you'll be leaving it up entirely to chance whether each bottle gets sprayed on the inside at all. I definitely wouldn't trust such a process to be in the least bit effective etiher at washing or sanitizing.
 
Considering how small a bottleneck is you'll be leaving it up entirely to chance whether each bottle gets sprayed on the inside at all. I definitely wouldn't trust such a process to be in the least bit effective etiher at washing or sanitizing.

That is quite a valid point. Maybe I should do a test and let some milk dry for a few days in the bottom of a few bottles and see how well the jets reach the bottom of them.
 
Whatever you do, do NOT put star-san in the dishwasher!!!!!!
I remember a thread a few years ago where a brewer did it. There is a reason that they say "Don't fear the foam!" when you use star-san.
I do believe her entire kitchen was sanitized once it escaped her dishwasher.
 
From Brittanica:
Pasteurization, heat-treatment process that destroys pathogenic microorganisms in certain foods and beverages. It is named for the French scientist Louis Pasteur, who in the 1860s demonstrated that abnormal fermentation of wine and beer could be prevented by heating the beverages to about 57° C (135° F) for a few minutes. Pasteurization of milk, widely practiced in several countries, notably the United States, requires temperatures of about 63° C (145° F) maintained for 30 minutes
While most new dishwashers no longer have a heating element in the dishwasher tub itself, they do heat the water directly. From Bosch's web page:
All Bosch dishwashers have the PureDry™ system which features a Sanitize Option that ends each cycle with an extra hot wash, heating the water to 162˚F which helps thoroughly clean, sanitize, and dry dishes.
IMHO, a dishwasher will not clean bottles, but it will sterilize your long-stored rack of clean bottles. Heat doesn't care if the neck is narrow - the whole bottle heats up which is what does the work.

I leave the dishwasher closed until I am about to bottle, then I open the door and fill them one at a time right there on the door. It's a nice shelf, and cleanup is just closing the door again.
 
I have tried using the sanitize feature on my Bosch dishwasher. It did not sanitize the bottles, and my whole batch was contaminated. I recommend using star San to sanitize before bottling.
Edit: my dishwasher is not the same model as yours but similar and is about 2.5 years old.
 
Inside of your dishwasher is in better shape than mine, still I wouldn't trust it. Yes the sanitization cycle will probably kill wild yeast and bacteria that are capable of spoiling beer but just because water is sanitary doesn't mean it is clean. At minimum probably left over dishwasher soap residue, but probably also bits of (sanitized) food particles and what not residue. Due to water efficiency mandates these things try to re-use so much water now that the dishes don't reach "beer clean". Also did OP mention using a soap pod? NO NO NO if you are going to use the dishwasher no dish soap. Put clean bottles in there and let the steam from the sterilization cycle do what it will.

Now for my drinking glasses I will normally accept it isn't proper beer clean for the convenience of the dishwasher but there is always the option to clean one properly when desired.

When I bottled I used a bottle washer like this on my utility sink to clean bottles - if I did them same night they were poured I would no soap would be needed, 15 seconds hot water jet from this and the bottle was very clean and then it went onto tree or into case to dry upside down.
https://www.amazon.com/Stainless-St...ocphy=9004533&hvtargid=pla-433849838045&psc=1
Then on bottling day I sanitized with one of these:
https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/vinator.htmI'd sanitize a few bottles, fill them, cap them, then sanitize and fill a few more. Eventually the bowl part of my vinerator broke but I took it apart and put the squirt part in a kitchen bowl and it worked fine for years.
 
This sounds more like the entire batch was contaminated before it went into the bottles. It seems unlikely that 24 bottles all were uniformly contaminated by the dishwasher.

This is good point for new brewers. If your entire batch is contaminated it had to occur before the beer got to the bottle. I'd tend to bet if it tasted good going into the bottling bucket but then went bad in bottles that it was contaminated during the bottling process. There tend to be quite a few plastic and rubber parts that come in contact with the beer during bottling day. Autosiphon, bottling bucket, bottling bucket spigot, hoses and bottling wand...
 
You will always find people for or against X on the Internet. I've been brewing for 29 years and have been a judge for 26 years. Granted I keg a whole hell of a lot more than I bottle these days, but there's still a fair number of batches under my belt.

I have used a dishwasher since someone suggested it in the early 1990's on Compuserve. I have never had an infection issue that could be attributed to the dishwasher.

I think it's reasonable to say that a homebrewer should know whether his dishwasher is cleaning well or not. Most every homebrewer has an electronic thermometer with a temp probe on a cable that can be looped into the washer to see how hot it gets for how long. If a guy (or gal) wants to use a dishwasher to sanitize already clean bottles, I think that's going to be just fine. Someone else will not. That's the Internet and it's been this way since the beginning.
 
This sounds more like the entire batch was contaminated before it went into the bottles. It seems unlikely that 24 bottles all were uniformly contaminated by the dishwasher.
That is certainly a possibility, but I have not had another issue since returning to using star San on my bottles. Maybe my process has gotten better, but I don't trust the dishwasher to sanitize bottles anymore.
 
There is no way for the dish washer to clean the inside of the bottles. Even if you did a test on a few, you would need to test every position in the dishwasher as every unit has "dead spots" where the jets don't go vertically into the dishes. This would also be true of rinsing detergent. If you put detergent in there with them there is a chance some detergent will make it into the bottle but the rinse water wouldn't.

Sanitizing clean bottles could probably work if your machine can keep it hot enough for long enough, as was stated above.
 
Whatever you do, do NOT put star-san in the dishwasher!!!!!!
I remember a thread a few years ago where a brewer did it. There is a reason that they say "Don't fear the foam!" when you use star-san.
I do believe her entire kitchen was sanitized once it escaped her dishwasher.

😳😆 Good to know! Kinda like adding normal dish soap or laundry detergent in the dishwasher.
 
There's no way a dishwasher can clean beer bottle interiors. I rarely bottle nowadays, but I used dishwasher sanitizing for many years with fine results. First, I thoroughly clean (fill bottles with mild bleach or Oxiclean solution) and rinse before sanitizing. Then into the dishwasher sanitizer. Sometimes the bottles were still rather warm when the beer went in.
 
Most brewers are wasting a great deal of time on bottle management. This is what I do. I have done it for 53 batches now over at least a decade, so close to 2500 bottlings without a single sanitation issue. Not one. Same bottles over and over, by the way. When I drink I rinse the emptied bottle three times with hot water and visually inspect. If there is any residue apparent on the inside, I will pump with a bottle brush, rinse and set aside. There is sometimes a ring of residue close to the neck, I wipe it off prior to the last rinse. On bottling day, the bottles go into the dishwasher. I run two dry-only cycles. I check the bottle temperature with an IR thermometer to make sure it is over 180F. On this particular DW I have now, it takes two cycles. The DW in my last house had a sanitation cycle and only required one cycle. The bottles sit in the hot DW until they are pulled to bottle. Usually in about an hour, but I have sometimes put off bottling until the next day.
 
tl;dr
You can't sanitize something that isn't clean in the first place. IOW, you can't sanitize dirt or dirty bottles.

The heat from the dishwasher may sanitize the bottles, as long as they were clean already.
It's very doubtful dishwasher jets can squirt detergent or hot water into each and every bottle and all the way up to the bottom with enough pressure and turbulence to clean them.
 
Inside of your dishwasher is in better shape than mine, still I wouldn't trust it. Yes the sanitization cycle will probably kill wild yeast and bacteria that are capable of spoiling beer but just because water is sanitary doesn't mean it is clean. At minimum probably left over dishwasher soap residue, but probably also bits of (sanitized) food particles and what not residue. Due to water efficiency mandates these things try to re-use so much water now that the dishes don't reach "beer clean". Also did OP mention using a soap pod? NO NO NO if you are going to use the dishwasher no dish soap. Put clean bottles in there and let the steam from the sterilization cycle do what it will.

Now for my drinking glasses I will normally accept it isn't proper beer clean for the convenience of the dishwasher but there is always the option to clean one properly when desired.

When I bottled I used a bottle washer like this on my utility sink to clean bottles - if I did them same night they were poured I would no soap would be needed, 15 seconds hot water jet from this and the bottle was very clean and then it went onto tree or into case to dry upside down.
https://www.amazon.com/Stainless-St...ocphy=9004533&hvtargid=pla-433849838045&psc=1
Then on bottling day I sanitized with one of these:
https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/vinator.htmI'd sanitize a few bottles, fill them, cap them, then sanitize and fill a few more. Eventually the bowl part of my vinerator broke but I took it apart and put the squirt part in a kitchen bowl and it worked fine for years.

I had actually said “with NO Pods”

1. With no additional cleaning, sanitizer or Jet Dry spot remover products, just the sanitize setting.

I do have one of those bottle washers that fit on the tap but it won’t fit on our modern kitchen faucet where I do all my brewing. I also have two Avvinatores and a bottle tree. But like the name of the tread states, I wanted to discuss the viability of sanitizing with the new dishwashers sanitation setting as we all want to make the process simpler and easier.
 
I have done it for 53 batches now over at least a decade, so close to 2500 bottlings without a single sanitation issue. Not one. [...] There is sometimes a ring of residue close to the neck
Sir, unless you are brewing with chocolate or something else which is expected to leave something behind on occasion, I think we may have spotted an error in your recordkeeping. ;)
I wanted to discuss the viability of sanitizing with the new dishwashers sanitation setting as we all want to make the process simpler and easier.
You have lots of opinions here. I think the part people are missing on is the ease of cleanup which I mentioned. Spills? Who cares. Drips? Gonna have them. Closing the door to clean up is about as simple as it gets.
 
This thread has been beaten into the dust, but I will add that I'm another of 'those guys' that have used a dishwasher sanitize and heated dry cycle for years now (actually on our 2nd dishwasher) and never had an infected bottle. I have had disastaticus contamination from saison yeast getting into my bottles from my transfer racking cane and causing bottle gushers but that's a whole 'nother topic.
 
fwiw, I tried the dishwasher thing with a couple dozen bottles riding the spikes on the bottom rack. Ran it through the sanitize cycle and all, but there were bottles with a haze inside that was actually harder to remove than what was in the bottle to begin with.
Just didn't feel like there was a win there for me, but if it works for others more power to 'em - cleaning bottles sucks, another reason why I went to kegging...

Cheers!
 
I’ve been brewing a long time and I rarely bottle anymore. But when I did, I used the dishwasher with great results. Like JimRausch said above, I immediately hot water rinsed 3 times and let dry. I would take some bleach and clean the inside of my dishwasher. Then visually inspect the inside of each bottle. Give them all a rinse then into the dishwasher for a sanitary cycle and heat dry. Not one infected bottle
 
No need to clean the inside of a dishwasher. You are running a dry cycle to disinfect. You could have a dead hedgehog in there and it would not matter one bit. The 180F dry heat will disinfect your bottles. I like to have my bottles visually clean, but even if you have some light residue in them, do not despair, the bottles are perfectly suitable to take your next batch. And another. And another. And another. Repeat 10 times. Or 1,000 times. Doesn't matter. 180F heat for an hour will leave any bottle suitable to take a fresh batch of beer. The Romans knew this 2000 years ago.
 
Lots to think about thanks to everyone’s contributions to this thread. I think I’ll try it on the next few batches and see what happens. Unfortunately my dishwasher does not hold enough bottles for an entire batch, so I can’t leave them in until I’m ready. I’ll have to do a couple of cycles to sanitize all.
 
Lots to think about thanks to everyone’s contributions to this thread. I think I’ll try it on the next few batches and see what happens. Unfortunately my dishwasher does not hold enough bottles for an entire batch, so I can’t leave them in until I’m ready. I’ll have to do a couple of cycles to sanitize all.
Bomber bottles. Faster and half the bottles to fill and cap.Really, who has just one?
 
Whatever you do, do NOT put star-san in the dishwasher!!!!!!
I remember a thread a few years ago where a brewer did it. There is a reason that they say "Don't fear the foam!" when you use star-san.
I do believe her entire kitchen was sanitized once it escaped her dishwasher.

I use Star-San in my wife's dish washer frequently. I never had a problem with any foam escaping the dish washer.
 
If you get a chance, search for the awesome photos. I'm glad it wasn't my kitchen, but I"m glad she shared the photos with us!

I mix up one gallon batches in a pitcher and dump it in the bottom of my wife's dishwasher when I'm done with what I need to do for brewing.

She loads the dish washer like she normally would. We never had any issues with foam escaping the dishwasher.

I suspect it might be a problem if the door seal on a dishwasher is bad though.
 
I mix up one gallon batches in a pitcher and dump it in the bottom of my wife's dishwasher when I'm done with what I need to do for brewing.

She loads the dish washer like she normally would. We never had any issues with foam escaping the dishwasher.

I suspect it might be a problem if the door seal on a dishwasher is bad though.

Of if someone just adds an ounce into the soap dispenser...................I think that's what she did.
The foam was really awesome in the photos. Plus, she could eat off her kitchen floors since they were so well sanitized.
 
I'll add my experience. I triple rinse bottles immediately after pouring beer and drain upside down. I then store them upside down. Before I bottle I run the empty dishwasher through a rinse cycle to be sure there is no debris in there. I run the clean bottles through the sanitize cycle with no soap. On my machine I have to do an entire "normal" cycle to get it to accept the sanitize command. It won't sanitize on a quick or rinse cycle. I have never actually measured the temperature but the bottles will burn my hand if I try and pick them up immediately after the cycle stops. This has worked fine for a few years now.
 
I had actually said “with NO Pods”

Sorry I was reacting to what @pvpeacock said in post 3


Also sorry if I joined the anti side in this not-intended-to-be-a-debate for no good reason. Clearly there are brewers who use their dishwashers to sanitize bottles so the question about viability is answered. Yes it is a viable solution to the need to have sanitized bottles for homebrew.

Whether it is best solution for you will depend on your specific situation. I kinda hate my dishwasher. I cook a lot and my dishwasher can easily see 2-3 loads a day. But I've had to have it repaired 3 times in 3 years. It's a relatively high end Kitchenaid and I bought it for having very good reliability score in Consumer Reports... Best $135 I ever spent was on the 5 year extended warranty on that thing as they are just not built for this level of use these days. For me it would not be all that viable because my dishwasher just doesn't have the excess capacity to take on bottle cleaning in addition to it's regular workload but your situation may be different.

One option OP you might have read about already that I would probably consider before the dishwasher option would be the oven. I've got one of those big Viking ranges with a large oven with 3 racks and a convection fan. I'm sure I could load that with bottles (a full 2 case batch for sure) and cook those for an hour. Have heard people that oven-sanitize bottles put a small piece of aluminum foil on the mouth before loading into the oven. That way you can sanitize when you want and store them sanitized. Not a good solution for swing top bottles but regular bottles would work pretty well I think.
 
Of if someone just adds an ounce into the soap dispenser...................I think that's what she did.
The foam was really awesome in the photos. Plus, she could eat off her kitchen floors since they were so well sanitized.

Yeah that would do it
 
An alternative that works well for me:
I clean the bottles in advance. Then on bottling day, I use a vinator to sanitize one bottle while another is filling. There's no separate sanitizing operation. This works if you believe Charlie Talley's statement that Star San actually sanitizes for brewing purposes in 30 seconds. If you allow one minute of contact time, it would slow the operation down some.
 
This thread has been beaten into the dust, but I will add that I'm another of 'those guys' that have used a dishwasher sanitize and heated dry cycle for years now (actually on our 2nd dishwasher) and never had an infected bottle. I have had disastaticus contamination from saison yeast getting into my bottles from my transfer racking cane and causing bottle gushers but that's a whole 'nother topic.
JimRausch.
I am currently experiencing these same types of gushing issues. How were you able to determine it was a diastatic yeast issue? And what did you do to clear it up?

thanks
 
I am currently experiencing these same types of gushing issues. How were you able to determine it was a diastatic yeast issue? And what did you do to clear it up?
It all started when I made a saison using Belle Saison yeast. This was maybe 4-5 years ago. I didn't suspect the cause at the time but in not quite every batch, and not every bottle, and it would take time- months to a year. But I'd open a bottle and get a gusher. And, here's the key- the belgian yeast estery taste that I really don't like. I eventually narrowed it down to my bottling setup- racking siphon and/or bottling cane. I was semi-successful in getting rid of it by switching from starsan to betadine as a sanitizer at bottling time. But finally was able to eliminate it by getting a Stainless racking siphon that I can cook in the oven. Then this year, reading about saison yeasts and diastatic yeasts in general, it all made sense.
 
It all started when I made a saison using Belle Saison yeast. This was maybe 4-5 years ago. I didn't suspect the cause at the time but in not quite every batch, and not every bottle, and it would take time- months to a year. But I'd open a bottle and get a gusher. And, here's the key- the belgian yeast estery taste that I really don't like. I eventually narrowed it down to my bottling setup- racking siphon and/or bottling cane. I was semi-successful in getting rid of it by switching from starsan to betadine as a sanitizer at bottling time. But finally was able to eliminate it by getting a Stainless racking siphon that I can cook in the oven. Then this year, reading about saison yeasts and diastatic yeasts in general, it all made sense.

Thanks JimRausch. I have pretty much confirmed that I have a diastaticus yeast issue. I ordered all new plastic for my system, buckets, tubing, etc. I autoclaved all my stainless parts and I am waiting for the acid wash concentrate to show up at Tractor Supply. Once I have that I will acid wash all the buckets, kettles and other plastic fittings that I can't autoclave. Couple of questions.
What ratio of betadine did you use? Any reason you went with betadine as opposed to iodophor? And did you let the bottles air dry before filling? Did you get the Stainless AutoSiphon from BrewSensible? Or just a standard stainless racking cane?
 
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