(VERY) Late Bubbling--Lager

[Iowa Brewer]

Hi There, Doing my first lager & first post, here.

Made Vienna lager wort and pitched yeast at about 8pm on Sunday. It's now Friday at 10:40am, and I've just seen my first two bubbles at 9am (10 sec apart). Checked a moment ago for about a minute... nothing. I've read bubbling isn't a reliable indicator, but this does raise a few of questions for me. Any help would be much appreciated.

First, here's some info:
-- Used two packs of Omega Bayern lager liquid yeast, but they were in the final month of date range
-- Pitched at 48F and from second day been keeping it at around 53F
-- Didn't do a gravity check, but did open the bucket two days ago and there was no krausen or any bubbles on the surface.


Here are my questions:
1) Now that I'm almost five days in, is there a danger of the wort going bad?
2) Is it normal for lager yeast to take this long
3) Should I pitch again to be safe or sit down and wait?
4) What questions am I not asking that I should be?

Thanks, all!

 

[Blazinlow86]

Lager yeast works alot slower and doesn't always get very aggressive. Not sure your batch size but even if it was only 5 gallons I think you have underpitched abit. I generally do about a 4litre starter per 5g for lagers. How did you aerate your wort? It will probably take off but you **may** have some off flavors. I always go overkill on the aeration and amount of yeast in my lagers. Cheers

 

[Iowa Brewer]

Thanks, Blazinlow86!
Yes, I did a 5.5 gal. For pitching, I just followed the pack instruction. Let the two packets sit out of the fridge for about 4hrs, shook the packets really well before pitching, and stirred. To aerate, I vigorously whisked the wort for about 7min. Maybe not enough? What would you suggest I do from here?

 

[Blazinlow86]

I don't think I'd do anything at this point. 2 packs will probably be ok just on the low end and your aeration is same kinda thing. I'd let it ride and see what happens. For best results next time I'd make a big starter and aerate with pure o2 if possible. Cheers

 

[Iowa Brewer]

Thanks, mate! Will do. One last question, with the late start and slow going, at what point should I call the primary finished and cold crash? I had a schedule, but it seems like it might be a bit irrelevant, now. This was the original plan:

1. Pitch at 48ºF.
2. Set to 50ºF before bed.
3. Set to 51ºF the next morning.
4. Set to 52ºF the morning after that.
5. Set to 55ºF morning after that.
6. Bump up temp 2ºF every 12 hours or so until it reaches 65ºF
7. Leave it there for a week then start crashing, 5ºF every 12 hours.

 

[Blazinlow86]

It's a tough one to answer. I would guess it's probably gonna take at least 1-2 weeks to get down to your final gravity. You generally raise the temp when your a few points to your final gravity for a D rest. Have you tried taking any gravity readings yet to confirm whether your fermentation is really going or not. That's really the only way you're going to really know how things are going. I'd say you're definitely won't be patient with this one. Cheers

 

[Blazinlow86]

Sorry I meant your gonna want to be patient with this one

 

[Jayjay1976]

That beard is legit! Welcome to HBT!

 

[Iowa Brewer]

Sorry I meant your gonna want to be patient with this one

It's a tough one to answer. I would guess it's probably gonna take at least 1-2 weeks to get down to your final gravity. You generally raise the temp when your a few points to your final gravity for a D rest. Have you tried taking any gravity readings yet to confirm whether your fermentation is really going or not. That's really the only way you're going to really know how things are going. I'd say you're definitely won't be patient with this one. Cheers

Sounds good, Blazinglow86. Thanks again for all the advice! On the upshot, this will give me time to start another ale while the lager does its thing Cheers!

 

[Iowa Brewer]

That beard is legit! Welcome to HBT!

Hey, thanks, Jayjay1976, on both fronts! It's great to have found this community.

 

[micraftbeer]

I've seen lagers with barely any notable activity that were still fermenting. If take a gravity reading. If you've seen it's dropped a ways, maybe start slowly ramping up temperature. If it hasn't, bump it up 1-2 degrees and leave it sit for 12 hours to see if you initiate signs of life.

 

[Iowa Brewer]

I've seen lagers with barely any notable activity that were still fermenting. If take a gravity reading. If you've seen it's dropped a ways, maybe start slowly ramping up temperature. If it hasn't, bump it up 1-2 degrees and leave it sit for 12 hours to see if you initiate signs of life.

Thanks micraftbeer, think I'll give that a try. How big is the risk of contamination when doing gravity readings? I guess just do it quick?

 

[specharka]

Hi There, Doing my first lager & first post, here.

Made Vienna lager wort and pitched yeast at about 8pm on Sunday. It's now Friday at 10:40am, and I've just seen my first two bubbles at 9am (10 sec apart). Checked a moment ago for about a minute... nothing. I've read bubbling isn't a reliable indicator, but this does raise a few of questions for me. Any help would be much appreciated.

First, here's some info:
-- Used two packs of Omega Bayern lager liquid yeast, but they were in the final month of date range
-- Pitched at 48F and from second day been keeping it at around 53F
-- Didn't do a gravity check, but did open the bucket two days ago and there was no krausen or any bubbles on the surface.


Here are my questions:
1) Now that I'm almost five days in, is there a danger of the wort going bad?
2) Is it normal for lager yeast to take this long
3) Should I pitch again to be safe or sit down and wait?
4) What questions am I not asking that I should be?

Thanks, all!

1) It’s certainly possible. Usually if I don’t see activity by 72 hours I’ll repitch or dump, depending on the beer.

2) No. Lager yeast takes a little bit longer in lag time, but it’s usually 24-36 hours vice 12-24 hours for ales, and relative to pitch rate.

3) I would. Two satchets of W-34/70 or S-23, in you go.

4) How viable is my yeast? How many cells did I pitch? How long should I have oxygenated or aerated the wort? How large of a starter is required for a lager? What off-flavors should I come to expect for such a long lag time? And so on...

 

[Iowa Brewer]

Thanks for this, Specharka! Funny thing, the bubbler is going on just fine (slower than the two ales I made, previously, but I was told to expect a slower bubble rate).

1) The aroma coming out of my fermenting fridge is really nice so I'm hoping I got lucky and it's not spoiled
3) Think I'll wait, if things keep heading my way on this, but I'll be keeping your advice for future brews
4) Great questions! I'm learning loads (the only bad failure is the one you don't learn from, eh?)

Here's hoping I have a viable lager when it's all done!

 

[micraftbeer]

From personal experience, I'd say the risk of infection is overrated. Of course I would say that up until the point it happens to me... So treat it like you want to keep it clean, and spray Star San on it and wait a few seconds before dropping your hydrometer in there.