Using Sumac for Tannins

[capaneus]

I was reading in Cider: Making, Using & Enjoying Sweet & Hard Cider, Third Edition that some people use staghorn sumac to emulate the tannic (and to some extent acidic) qualities of juice made from cider apples.

Does any one here have any experience with sumac or other tannic adjuncts like tea?

I'll be starting out with a sweet cider with great acidity but lacking much tannin..and I'm looking to develop that some more.

 

[kniles38]

I have some experience with Sumac. Now I don't go within 10 feet of it.

 

[Freezeblade]

My house cider recipe uses tea to simulate tannins, one cup of strong black tea per gallon, made from an irish or english breakfast tea. Make sure it's not Earl Grey, that has other stuff in it, and use the fine-grain non-loose stuff, as you want to extract tannins, and the large-leaf loose stuff does not do this. Recipe in my pulldown.

 

[Teromous]

Poison Sumac isn't the same as Staghorn Sumac

If you can get your hands on the fruit, it is edible and can be crushed to make juice. I don't know if the book is referring to the leaves or the fruit, but the leaves and stems are very high in tannin. If you don't have access to the plant, you can always use grape tannin powder. It's readily available at most brew shops.

By the way I really like that book. I like how it discusses traditional methods of cider making. It seems like a lot of people just want to use apple juice, and although more time consuming, making a cider from scratch is fun.

 

[gregbathurst]

I think crab apples are a good way to add tannin, though they vary a lot in their tannin levels. Most crabs also have high sugar levels as well.

 

[capaneus]

The bark of Sumac is especially tannic from what I hear, but the fruit contains a decent amount of tannins and acids with low sugar levels. I've heard that a popular beverage "back when" was made with sumac and sugar, a kind of sumac-ade and dried sumac berries are used as a spice in middle eastern cooking to add a sour lemony flavor.

I'll give it a shot and let you guys know how it works. It's my third batch of hard cider so I'm very much a beginner.

 

[Teromous]

Did you find sumac growing naturally? I'd be too worried about finding some and identifying it incorrectly. I found that section in the book that talks about sumac, and it tells you the difference between poison and staghorn sumac, but still it's a chance I don't want to take. If I could find some powdered/chipped bark I'd try it though. Keep us updated!

 

[HandsomeRyan]

Poison sumac is (A) fairly rare [most people who think they've come in contact with it are actually suffering from the much more common poison ivy or poison oak], and (B) nearly impossible to confuse with staghorn sumac since the berries are different color and have a different shape.

White berries = possibly poison sumac
Tight clusters of bright red berries that point upward = not poison sumac.

I have some Staghorn Sumac wine bubbling away in the closet right now but I have no idea about adding it to cider apples?

 

[JoeSponge]

Handsome, I see from your location, that you are a doctor, so I am inclined to believe your description. Well, even without your description, I sing, "Google loves me, this I know, it's search engine tells me so. Poison things to me it shows, so I won't quit while the world goes." OK, not a very good song, but hey, it's Google.

http://www.formaggiokitchen.com/shop/product_info.php?products_id=1535

I never knew that Sumac was edible..., just that as kids, we would smash it's bunches of bright, dark berries, and smear it on our skin, and get the tar waled out of us for getting our skin and clothes died. I could have told them it wasn't tar, but nobody listens to kids. In a strange twist of fate, staghorn sumac was used medicinally to help staunch bleeding -- which explains why I'm still alive after having my hide removed.

http://www.bio.brandeis.edu/fieldbio/medicinal_plants/pages/Staghorn_Sumac.html

There's lots of types. This is NOT what our prevalent type is http://www.thekitchn.com/thekitchn/ingredients-fruit/have-you-tried-sumacade-092887 -- ours has stalks of purple berries and makes a wonderful, long-lasting skin die. Your skin will turn deep reddish-purple and last for days or at least several spankings.

FINALLY found it... it wasn't SUMAC that got us sore-tailed, but POKE BERRY. http://wilderix.wordpress.com/2007/05/15/poke-aint-no-joke/.

What the heck can I do with pokeweed? I mean, aside from getting severe stomach cramps, nausea and vomiting, and diarrhea. I think I'll pass...

 

[EoinMag]

The Persians use Sumac a lot in their cooking. It's a spice made from the dried berries, this is possibly what you should be using.

 

[capaneus]

Pokeweed? I've heard that you can make a certain jam out of it but only after some kind of extended boiling process to remove the toxins....I'll pass.

Staghorn sumac and poison sumac don't look anything alike. Well, they look a little alike, but the berrie clusters are impossible to mistake. Staghorn Sumac's fruit is in season in late summer through early fall and if you crush them or boil them, you get a sour/tannic red liquid that, like pokeweed, stains most anything it touches. I'm not sure if this is the same kind of sumac that is used in middle eastern cooking, but I'm sure it's similar (I'm aware of a smooth skinned variety of staghorn sumac as well).

Anyway, I grabbed 5 medium "horns" of sumac, boiled them for 10 minutes in a cup of water and ended up with a dark purplish red sumac concentrate. It was extremely tart with an intense tannic mouthfeel and a vaguely lemony taste. Taste impressions after mixing says, it's just what this local sweet cider maker's blend needed to give it some more interest.

I'll let you know in a month or so.

 

[capaneus]

Staghorn Sumac wine? Gotta link to that recipe?

Sounds interesting.

 

[Clayton]

Staghorn Sumac we have tons of that stuff here
it taste really sour like vit-C
i bet it would be good. some times when i am out walking on my land in the fall i will grab a few and kind of suck on them like a sour candy then spit the seeds.

dont know of you fools quote that.

 

[HandsomeRyan]

Staghorn Sumac wine? Gotta link to that recipe?

Sounds interesting.

You know J.K. has a recipe! [He always has a recipe!]

http://winemaking.jackkeller.net/staghorn.asp

 

[Deaconblues]

This is my first post and I know this is probably a dead thread, but in case anyone is playing with sumac these days, I made a 5 gallon batch of welch apple cider this year for the first time because I missed cider season and really wanted to experiment with making a hard cider. The first batch was good, but dry and pretty plain. I had collected Sumac berries for tea and decided to make another batch with sumac-water added to the welch concentrate. I just clean off the berries, put them in a blender with water, then strained into a pot to boil.

Anyway, it added a nice pink hue to the cider and brought in some complexity to the flavor. There was a tannin taste and it smoothed out the cider tartness a bit.

I can post the exact recipe if anyone wants it, but I was really doing it in preparation for this fall. I am picking and drying sumac this week in preparation for fresh cider to mix it with.

 

[capaneus]

Hey, it's an older thread but no worries!

Staghorn is definitely a great way of converting what would be a more bland cider made out of off the shelf juice into something more complex and interesting. In my experience it improves it's aging characteristics as well. You made a good point, one of the side benefits is the nice reddish, apple hue it gives to the finished product!

I always use sumac when making cider now - used it about 4 times now and have steadily increased the quantity used to achieve the desired flavor. I harvest the sumac off the side of the road sometime in september when I'm ready for cider making. I chop it up into big chunks, boil it for 10 minutes or so, and strain off the concentrated juice. Probably use about 7-8 medium "horns" per 5 gallon batch. Just taste it to see, and consider that the tannins will mellow as it ages.