using hop bags

[balrog]

I have that same strainer and then also the smaller set below. I forget which one (middle one I think) fits pretty perfectly in my fermenter mouth. The small one I like it works great for dipping into the fermenter and straining out dry hop pellets floating around the top.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007TUQF9O/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o09_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Ok I'm new - how do I make that a pretty Amazon link?

I literally looked up the amazon item, copied the URL, and pasted while I was typing (for those across the pond, "whilst I was typing"), and it formatted it into a little boxy doo dad thingy without my doing anything.

 

[bracconiere]

Not for that price!

so just buy a Grainfather huh? for the same price? lol


wait everything is coming together....

well i can't find them...

but the electric bike one, the bike grain mill, and the electric car one!

 

[bracconiere]

I literally looked up the amazon item, copied the URL, and pasted while I was typing (for those across the pond, "whilst I was typing"), and it formatted it into a little boxy doo dad thingy without my doing anything.

hit and miss... works the same for me....

 

[Deadalus]

It started at 30cm x 60cm, once finished it's approx 11" square, and because of the bent SS wire inside of it, very little ever lays flat against the convex bottom of my keggle, maximizing flow. With recirc/whirlpooling, very little trub lays on inch or two of the corners, and very little plugs up the underside. I do get some smaller particles come through, but it makes for a very thin layer that's relatively easily removed when yeast harvesting and never enough to clog a pump.

Yes that's bigger, the diameter of the bottom of the Hop Stopper is given as 9.75" however mine is only 9.5" but that's apples to oranges type of comparison. The comparison needs to be done on some equal basis, either use the same amount of material to make your shape and the Hopstopper or make your shape and the hopstopper the same surface area. They aren't equal surface areas and I am pretty sure you are using more material than used in the hopstopper. Read on if interested.

As far as surface area you have 2x 121=242 square inches, which is the easier calculation. I made the mistake of thinking I needed to calculate some of the Hop Stopper surfaces separately but then I realized it's just a cone with the top inverted down. It's got a surface area of 163 sq inches as the height is 2" and the depression touches the bottom so the cone height is 4". I'm pretty sure you used more material as your original sheet is 11.8"x 23.6". A cone can be made from a Pac-man shape. I'm guessing but I think they don't cut out the mouth from the circle and instead cut a slit along a radius in the circle. Then draw the circle that forms the depression, and bend that part down. Next form a frustrum of the cone and overlap. This makes the cone top inverted. The base is just a circle attached to the cone. I thought at first that maybe they used they are using a 10" square for both. However the surface are of the cone without the base is 162 - π(4.75)²=92.1 sq in. A circle with that area has a radius of 5.4 and a diameter of 10.8" so they might use a square of 11" per side for the top. That would leave enough to attach the two pieces. Minimum necessary is one 11" and one 10" square or two 11" squares. You have 2 squares essentially that are 11.8" on a side or 2x139.24 sq in=278 sq in. They are using at a minimum 100 + 121 =221 square inches and perhaps 121 + 121 =242 sq in. so you are using about 15% more material compared to the 242 sq in value and a little over 25% more material compare to the 221 sq in value. If you were provide the same size sheet of 11" square, your sides would be about 10.25" and your area would be 105.1 sq in. for the top vs the HS top of 92.1. If you were to use the same amount of material as the lowest estimated amount, 221 sq inches, you'd have two squares 110.5 sq in with sides 10.51" and taking off 3/4" the sides would by 9.75" with top area of only 95 sq in vs 92.1 and 190 total sq in vs 163. Seems intuitive though that you would get more area out of square sheets then the HS circular shape.

Now to be totally fair, both shapes should have the same surface area of 163 square inches. Then maybe it could be determined which shape is better. Your squares top and bottom would then need to be just over 81 sq in each and that's just about 9". So a fair surface area comparison would need that 9" square for your top and bottom.

And I don't even know if the mesh sizes are the same either.

 

[drjayray]

For dry hopping, oak additions or other additions, get one of these. You’ll need something like a fermonster with the wider mouth opening though.

Amazon.com: Beer Dry Hopper Filter,300 Micron Mesh Stainless Steel Hop StrainerCartridge,Homebrew Hops Beer & Tea Kettle Brew Filter by Fashionclubs(18cm x 7cm): Home & Kitchen

Shop Fashionclubs at the Amazon Home Brewing & Wine Making store. Free Shipping on eligible items. Everyday low prices, save up to 50%.

www.amazon.com

I have one of these stainless mesh canisters and they are excellent for dry hopping in fermentor or in serving keg. You can load it up with whole hops or like 2-3 oz of pellet hops. Easy to clean and reuse. I just add a coffee filter on top before screwing lid on as the bigger holes in lid let some tiny particles out that clog my out ball lock poppet. Fits through corny top no problem. I use a stainless mesh hop spider in the brew pot latched to side of pot that allows easy early, late, and whirlpool hop additions even with the immersion wort chiller present near the end. It’s all about using the hops selectively for their early bittering, late flavor, and dry hop aroma and keeping brewing a fun hobby and less of a cleaning chore.

 

[Closet Fermenter]

For dry hopping, oak additions or other additions, get one of these. You’ll need something like a fermonster with the wider mouth opening though.

Amazon.com: Beer Dry Hopper Filter,300 Micron Mesh Stainless Steel Hop StrainerCartridge,Homebrew Hops Beer & Tea Kettle Brew Filter by Fashionclubs(18cm x 7cm): Home & Kitchen

Shop Fashionclubs at the Amazon Home Brewing & Wine Making store. Free Shipping on eligible items. Everyday low prices, save up to 50%.

www.amazon.com

I actually use this very thing in my brew kettle. I just put the hops in, and toss it in. I fish it out before chilling.

 

[Broken Crow]

And I don't even know if the mesh sizes are the same either.

Nope... My understanding is the Hopstopper uses 300 mesh, and mine is 420 mesh. I was worried it might plug, but it was experimental and I didn't want it to be round. The square was intentional since it was going in a keggle with a convex bottom, I didn't want it to rest all the way around the edges and restrict underside flow. I was actually a bit surprised and very pleased that it worked so well, plus; it's very easy to lift by the corners and remove most of the cat barf in one go when cleaning time comes.

 

[camonick]

i've been using bags with pellets for years, but my hop flavor has sucked for years too... lol

I didn’t see this mentioned yet, and I’m sure you already know since you’ve been at this for a while, but you are adding your flavoring hops later in the boil (10-15 minutes)?
I’ve used hop bags since I started and don’t notice any lack of flavor.

 

[thefigure5]

i've been using bags with pellets for years, but my hop flavor has sucked for years too.

In your process or packaging, is it possible oxidation is affecting the hop flavor?

 

[bracconiere]

but you are adding your flavoring hops later in the boil (10-15 minutes)?

usually i just use 1.5oz of high AA ~15%, something like bravo or chinook, at 60 minutes.


so you recommend adding a flame out, dry hop routine?

 

[bracconiere]

In your process or packaging, is it possible oxidation is affecting the hop flavor?

how long would it take for that to be an issue? i don't close transfer or anything?

 

[camonick]

usually i just use 1.5oz of high AA ~15%, something like bravo or chinook, at 60 minutes.


so you recommend adding a flame out, dry hop routine?

Flame out hops, depending on variety, are usually considered aroma hops. They are added in the last 5 minutes or after. You are only getting bittering properties from your 60 minute addition. Try adding some between 20 and 10 minutes and you’ll get the flavor… this is also style specific too.

 

[bracconiere]

this is also style specific too.

i don't have style, but i could swear i used to taste hops even with just 60 min additions.. but that was back in like 2006-7...


i apreciate all the help on this issue though so far though....i got some malt made, waiting on the strainer....what would be the consensus on commando hops 4oz's at 60, 6 at 30, and like another 6 at 170f?


(i'm not trying to win any awards here, just think it'd be a fun experiment)

edit: those would be numbers for kinda old hops for the record, probably got some more flavor oriented ones for the late additions....

 

[camonick]

what would be the consensus on commando hops 4oz's at 60, 6 at 30, and like another 6 at 170f?

10 gallons I assume? What varieties?

i'm not trying to win any awards here, just think it'd be a fun experiment)

 

[camonick]

One pound of hops will require a rather large hop bag or multiple smaller ones. I know a lot of folks just chuck them in commando too.

 

[bracconiere]

10 gallons I assume? What varieties?


View attachment 811848

lol, not win any awards? and yes 10 gallons....

 

[bracconiere]

and i just looked through some 'used' hops i got from someone here...i got some comet from 2020 vacuum sealed for the 60 addition, and some santiam for the 30m, and some fuggels for the 170-180f addition, have to keep an eye, because water boils at 200f here....

and i think it'll be a basic batch, just some malt kilned around 170-180...and 1/2 pound of crystal 60, maybe an ounce of chocolate for a "what's that factor"

 

[faithie999]

me and my kettle have been together since 2002, it makes me uncomfortable thinking of drilling a hole in it.....

I was in the same boat. I bought a weldless fitting and a piece of 3/8 copper tubing years ago and it sat on my workbench because I was shy about drilling into the kettle.

I finally bit the bullet. I bent the 3/8 tubing into a 90 degree elbow, planning on using an Anvil bazooka screen.

I determined where the hole needed to be so the screen laid flat on the bottom when assembled to the copper tubing.

I used a center punch so I could precisely make a ding in the pot where the hole should be. then I drilled a starter hole, then a step drill (fairly cheap at harbor freight) to make the right size hole.

it worked fine, no leaks. I bought a 1/2" NPT stainless nipple and 1/2" stainless ball valve for the outside of the pot.

now the issue is that after several tries, the bazooka is headed for the trash. it plugs too quickly, and when I move it around using a sanitized ladle to dislodge the tub/hops, they get through the screen.

I like the idea of the "return bend" on the fitting that was in the link. I will buy another piece of 3/8 tubing and design the same shape.

 

[thefigure5]

how long would it take for that to be an issue? i don't close transfer or anything?

Sorry I didn't see this before today.

So many variables makes it hard to say how long it takes for the effects of oxidation to affect hop character. You could judge in your process by tasting a sample of the the beer when you start the transfer to the keg. If it already is not hoppy enough, probably oxidation is not the cause.

 

[bracconiere]

You could judge in your process by tasting a sample of the the beer when you start the transfer to the keg. If it already is not hoppy enough, probably oxidation is not the cause.

honestly, that's why i posted this in beginner's....i actually didn't have that thought....


and an update, i have my SS colander & plan on brewing sometime soon....

 

[madscientist451]

I only use hop bags when dry hopping; makes it easier to transfer the beer without clogging and if I'm feeling really frugal I can use the dry hops for bittering in another brew.

 

[bracconiere]

if I'm feeling really frugal I can use the dry hops for bittering in another brew.

you can do that? i was kinda wise cracking about getting more hop flavor from the trub.....

 

[faithie999]

I only use hop bags when dry hopping; makes it easier to transfer the beer without clogging and if I'm feeling really frugal I can use the dry hops for bittering in another brew.

I had always used hop bags for DH. In doing so I never thought there was enough flavor/aroma for whatever style I was brewing. I used large enough bags so the expanding hops didn't pack tightly, and if I remembered, I swirled the fermenter lightly a few times during the 3-day dry hopping.

the last few brews I have just tossed the hops into the fermenter, and I believe there is a perceptible increase in hop flavor/aroma. of course the tradeoff is enough hops that make it into in the keg to clog the beer out post, which can be solved with a floating dip tube.

now with all that out of the way, I assume you've brewed LOTS of batches. have you evaluated the hop bag vs commando approaches?

thanks

Ken

 

[madscientist451]

you can do that? i was kinda wise cracking about getting more hop flavor from the trub.....

Yeah you can do that, its been discussed here on HBT:

Recycle dry hops?

Since a dry hops aren't boiled, they maintain their bittering potential, right? Has anybody taken hops that were dry hopped out of their beer and used it for bittering their next brew?

www.homebrewtalk.com

Reusing dry hops in the next batch for bittering

Hello! I know this gets discussed, I know it falls down to 'better brewers than I do so successfully' and 'why take the chance when home brew is so labour intensive and hops are relatively cheap' and 'I prefer to analyse my theoretical IBU's with honest accuracy ensuring what I hope is...

www.homebrewtalk.com

Elements of Beer: Recycling Hops in the Brewhouse

Think you need to throw out all that fragrant green sludge? Maybe you don’t. A few American brewers are experimenting with reusing spent dry hops, and the results are intriguing.

beerandbrewing.com

I've only done it when I'm using a large amount of dry hops (usually different varieties) some are better for bittering than others, so I'll keep them in separate hop bags and mark the ones I want to re-use. Try it yourself by putting the used dry hops in some hot water and make a "hop tea", there's lots of bitterness left in those hops.

 

[bracconiere]

Yeah you can do that, its been discussed here on HBT:

i don't frequent many threads actually about brewing here...thanks for the links, i've been trying to figure out how to get back to my 99 cent twelve packs, and now that sugar costs $1/lb....thinking might have to give up on hard seltzer and go back to brewing to keep the cost down....

but the price of my barley has gone from $13 a 50lb sack, to now $25....so instead of 26 cents a pound, now it's 63 cents a pound...i haven't even looked to see what store bought is going for these days....

anyway thanks again i plan on purusing those links.....

 

[IslandLizard]

my barley has gone from $13 a 50lb sack, to now $25....so instead of 26 cents a pound, now it's 63 cents a pound...

Your calculator is broken (again). Or your proofreader quit on you, by lack of beer.

i don't frequent many threads actually about brewing here...

Yeah, it can be risky out here. You seem to be holding your own though, and quite well. Please, come in more often.

 

[bracconiere]

Or your proofreader quit on you, by lack of beer.

i was just in an actual brewing thread....

Yeah, it can be risky out here. You seem to be holding your own though, and quite well. Please, come in more often.

about molecules and volume loss mixing ethanol and water....same happens with mixing water with raw barley....once sprouted and dried, and deculmed a 50lb sack of barley only yields 40lbs malt...


edit: here it is schooled in "brew science" again....

Tool to measure abv?

well i just performed an experiement....i poured a glasses worth of beer in a sauce pot and put it in the oven for 45 minutes at 170f.... it was a known beer of OG 1.066, FG of 1.003....Brix for it before the oven 7 or so....brix after then oven 6...and the hydrometer reading after the oven was...

www.homebrewtalk.com

 

[Stormcrow]

I use a stainless spider that hangs on the side during the boil. Periodically I stir around inside it with my mash paddle. After the boil, I hold it sideways over the kettle and roll it around to allow the trapped hoppy liquid to run out through the clearer screen higher on the spider. For dry hopping I use one of those stainless canisters with the screw on lid (pretty cheap on Amazon). I feel like I get good hop utilization with these practices. I do know you can overload those dry hop canisters and have a "dry" center. Might want to split between two of you're using a metric ton of hops.

 

[bracconiere]

Auth my mash paddle

lol, just a wise crack...but i refuse to do that!


for now i'm going commando next batch, and pouring through the strainer, and tasting after the bubbles stop...

 

[Stormcrow]

lol, just a wise crack...but i refuse to do that!

You got to it before I could edit!

 

[thefigure5]

lol, just a wise crack...but i refuse to do that!


for now i'm going commando next batch, and pouring through the strainer, and tasting after the bubbles stop...

How did it turn out, hoppinesswise?

 

[bracconiere]

How did it turn out, hoppinesswise?

well i didn't get around to brewing it till last monday...it's in the fermenter, the strainer worked good, although time consuming....


the beer is fermenting under a spunding valve right now going to give it a couple more days...open it up and taste the gravity reading sample, then compare when it's kegged....


i know you wanted a hoppyness report, but that's where i'm at on that front...

 

[thefigure5]

well i didn't get around to brewing it till last monday...it's in the fermenter, the strainer worked good, although time consuming....


the beer is fermenting under a spunding valve right now going to give it a couple more days...open it up and taste the gravity reading sample, then compare when it's kegged....


i know you wanted a hoppyness report, but that's where i'm at on that front...

No problem, just checking in.

 

[bracconiere]

No problem, just checking in.

you got me wanting to crack my milk can open! but the test here is if it's O2 or the bags!

 

[faithie999]

the last few batches I've just dumped the dry hops into the fermenter. might just be my imagination but I believe there is a discernible difference in aroma and taste compared to my previous practice (for many years) of bagging the dry hops. the tradeoff is losing probably a couple of quarts of beer to the hops slurry. I have cold crashed the last two batches, and while the yeast cake is nice and compact, the hops "cake" is a thick slurry at best.

 

[NSMikeD]

I’ve used hop spiders, bags and nothing with pellets (the days of me using whole hops is a feint memory. This is my latest protocol Be advised this could change on a dime.

For bitttering I will use the hop spider in my anvil foundry. Word is that bags and spiders will still get your IBUs but it’s the flavor compounds that might get compromised. So they tell me. My nose and taste buds aren’t 5bat preside. I tried running recirculating pump through the spider but the spider clogged and the hops spilled over.

Flavor and late additions go direct. I use anvils whirlpool arm to help keep as much debris as possible in the foundry. I account for about 3/4 inch loss (I’d have to look up what I put in my equipment profile) rotating the spigot pick up tube to limit solids going into the fermentor.

Dry hops go in a bag with food grade sous vide magnets so I can lower them in (or raise them] to prevent O2 exposure by keeping the fermentor lid closed until a pressure transfer to the keg. I have a floating dip tube in the fermentor to limit trub getting in the keg, especially by keeping the trub undisturbed during the transfer.

Fwiw, before my anvils I did drill and install a spigot in my stainless steel pot. Watching it being done on YouTube help convince me I could do it. Afterwards I realized it was very easy. Add transferring to the fermenter super easy.

If you aren’t kegging, inexpensive plastic fermentors with spigots make bottle way easier than a siphon wand.


One last note, since I added the stainless steel head to the anvil pump and a ball valve with quick connects I may just put all the hops in the spider and dial down the flow to a trickle to slow down the clogging while permitting flow as the level inside the spider rises.

 

[faithie999]

I tried something new (to me) today. for years I had been siphoning wort from the kettle to the fermenter after vigorously whirlpooling the wort to collect the hops and trub in the center of the kettle (I dump my hops directly into the kettle).

the last few batches I've experimented unsuccessfully with the Anvil Kettle Strainer. Anvil's claim is right that it filters out the hops, but at least when using pelleted hops, the kettle strainer blinds over quickly with hops. into the trash bin for that device.

today I did two things differently. first, an idea I saw here recently and don't remember if it was a commercial product or a DIY. Some time ago I installed a weldless fitting and a 90 degree dip tube inside the kettle for use with the kettle strainer. today I replaced the 90 degree dip tube with one that resembles a numeral 7. I bent it back from where it attaches to the inside threads of the weldless fitting so the tip ended up right at the inside edge of the kettle with the end 1/2" or less from the bottom.

the second thing I did differently was to raise the front of the kettle (where the weldless fitting is) by putting a 1/2" block under the front of the kettle so that when I whirlpooled my hope was that the floor of the kettle under the outlet would be relatively free of hops. I vigorously whirlpooled, let it settle for an hour, then very gently removed the block and returned the kettle to level.

I attached my outlet tubing, opened the valve, and watched virtually no hops travel through the tubing. when the level in the kettle was low enough to see the perimeter of the floor of the kettle, sure enough virtually no hops were at the discharge point until the kettle was nearly empty and the hops had begun to move slowly toward the outlet. when the hops started into the outlet tube, I shut the valve.

so thanks to whoever it was that posted the picture of the "7-shaped" dip tube!

Ken

 

[bracconiere]

How did it turn out, hoppinesswise?

opened the fermenter and tasted it today... it has a musky strong hop flavor, maybe because of the old hops? and it has a film of hops on the surface....


so i guess the strainer only worked 'so' well.....but all in all, i'm cold crashing it, and think being 'i drink alone' should be quaffable for me....

 

[bracconiere]

well i kegged my brew, one keg is clogged, the other pours slow....soooo, i guess the strainer didn't work good enough..

still has hop flavor though!

 

[thefigure5]

well i kegged my brew, one keg is clogged, the other pours slow....soooo, i guess the strainer didn't work good enough..

still has hop flavor though!

Would you say that this time you got more flavor out of the hops compared to using muslin hop bags? The downside was, it seems, that the strainer you used let too much hop matter through. And from personal experience, fine strainers clog really easily. What's a beer-maker to do? - use more bags with more hops for more hop flavor?