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Bentresidder

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I'm looking for used kegs, can't currently afford new ones as they are too expensive. If you live in Wisconsin of northern Illinois and are looking to sell some kegs let me know, I'd be happy to discuss.
 
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Jeremy9991

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Have a half and a quarter available in Madison, WI. Please message if interested.
 

homebrewer_99

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I'm live outside the Quad Cities, IL side. I'm only writing this since you are not far away from a seller I did business with.

Many years ago I was on a business trip in Alabama. There was a guy selling kegs on eBay. I contacted him about them and told him my story about not being able to make the trip. He told me to call him after I got home and he'd fix me up. I ended up purchasing 25 from him. He even loaded the pallet up on the back of the pick up so they wouldn't bang around loosely.

I'm pretty sure he's still in business, but I can't guarantee his prices. When I got mine from him he was charging $12 each.

LARRY DOUGLAS
2490 JACKSON ST.
HWY 76
OSHKOSH, WI
920-426-5353

Good luck.
 

Robert65

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So are garage sales illegal?
It depends on how the guy holding the garage sale got them. Kegs are the property of the brewery, and they don't sell them to people. There are some wholesale recyclers who buy them, like Sabco, and either recondition and sell them back to breweries or convert them for other uses. If you see a used keg with an old brewery name on it, you can be almost certain it was obtained illegally, by someone paying a deposit and never returning the keg. If illegally obtained, you can't legally buy it. Just like you can't buy a car if the seller doesn't have clear title, you are not in the clear buying something legally unsalable at a garage sale, even if you did so in good faith; you would be receiving stolen property. Breweries lose enormous amounts of money through kegs walking away, and we all pay for it.
 

jjw5015

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It depends on how the guy holding the garage sale got them. Kegs are the property of the brewery, and they don't sell them to people. There are some wholesale recyclers who buy them, like Sabco, and either recondition and sell them back to breweries or convert them for other uses. If you see a used keg with an old brewery name on it, you can be almost certain it was obtained illegally, by someone paying a deposit and never returning the keg. If illegally obtained, you can't legally buy it. Just like you can't buy a car if the seller doesn't have clear title, you are not in the clear buying something legally unsalable at a garage sale, even if you did so in good faith; you would be receiving stolen property. Breweries lose enormous amounts of money through kegs walking away, and we all pay for it.
He is most likely looking for corny kegs, which are old soda kegs that aren't used anymore.
 

Robert65

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He is most likely looking for corny kegs, which are old soda kegs that aren't used anymore.
The original (unedited) OP referred to half, quarter or sixtel size Sanke kegs, as picked up on in the second reply. That was was what I was responding to, but the reference has been removed. Perhaps so as not to be seen openly posting a solicitation of illegal activity?
 

jjw5015

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The original (unedited) OP referred to half, quarter or sixtel size Sanke kegs, as picked up on in the second reply. That was was what I was responding to, but the reference has been removed. Perhaps so as not to be seen openly posting a solicitation of illegal activity?
Gotcha, I never saw that. I'll see myself out now o_O
 

Nate R

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It depends on how the guy holding the garage sale got them. Kegs are the property of the brewery, and they don't sell them to people. There are some wholesale recyclers who buy them, like Sabco, and either recondition and sell them back to breweries or convert them for other uses. If you see a used keg with an old brewery name on it, you can be almost certain it was obtained illegally, by someone paying a deposit and never returning the keg. If illegally obtained, you can't legally buy it. Just like you can't buy a car if the seller doesn't have clear title, you are not in the clear buying something legally unsalable at a garage sale, even if you did so in good faith; you would be receiving stolen property. Breweries lose enormous amounts of money through kegs walking away, and we all pay for it.
So... stepping into a mine field here... but...

I will preface this with:
- I live in California
-Other states may differ

When i get a keg of beer from my major retailers like BevMo or TotalWine, i pay a keg deposit. I am told that if i do not provide my receipt with return they will not give me my keg deposit back.
This tells me that:
A- the deposit i paid is worth more than the deposit the retailer paid.

Now now now... yes people steal kegs then try to return for a deposit. (This is why smart retailers demand proof before refund). They are theives. Whoever they stole the keg from (usually a bar, restaraunt, or club) loses their deposit. The thief stole NOT from the brewer but from whoever paid the deposit on that keg.

At the end of the day... the retail price for one keg is much different than the wholesale cost of a pallet (or a truck load of pallets). Add to that the depreciation (miniscule as it may be) of the used keg the cost goes down.

I think it is in poor taste not to return the keg as it affects the supply chain for the brewer. This is why Microstar has had so much success. Also why I love Microstar- now smaller brewers can ship beer farther without worrying about logistics of return.

There is no way the keg deposit ever costs less than the keg. That's the whole point of the depo- A deposit holds the value or more of the item in question.

Alas, my $0.03 worth.
 

Robert65

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There is no way the keg deposit ever costs less than the keg. That's the whole point of the depo- A deposit holds the value or more of the item in question.
If you buy by the pallet of 27 kegs, 1/2 bbl kegs are around $150 new. Around here, the keg deposit is $30. It is a token of good faith, essentially, meant to be just enough incentive; and moreover this system evolved before there were any (legal) homebrewers, so the idea that somebody might have a use for the keg (other than target practice or frat house decor) and want to keep it was not foreseen. Not that that would affect the way deposits work, in any business. I rented a tricked out Grand Cherokee once and I can tell you I did not have to put down anything like $60k in security.
 

Qhrumphf

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Add to that, try to charge a retailer/distributor actual value of the keg in deposit, you won't be in distribution very long. Deposits are nowhere near actual value.

In negotiating contracts with places, that's a negotiation bit that'll easily get negotiated down.

When a keg gets stolen, whomever had the keg loses their deposit and the brewery loses a lot more. Only winner is the bastard who stole it.
 

Nate R

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Ok you know what? I bet for the smaller brewies the keg cost may not scale.
Great points from you both.

First off- you rent a car (or stay in a hotel, etc) you sign a contract directly with the provider. I.e. you wreck it you pay for it. Hence credit cards and credit checks etc. I used to rent cars. Let me tell you- some people treat cars worse than beer kegs. But it was a cost of doing buisness. In other words if i required a full depo on every car rented i would never rent enough cars to stay open.
When i get a keg of beer i am only dealing with the retailer in most cases.

Seems like the system is set up to hurt the brewer, not the retailer or distributor (of course that never happens right?)

If these kegs all came with gaurenteed depo refund (like say a empty soda can has a recycle value in some states) then the black market for these things would probably dry up. If a person "rents" a keg from say a local liquor store, then for whatever reason said store won't honor return, could person get his money back any other way?
Seems like the system is set up to fail.

I get why you dont just want to pay for any keg return as it would promote rampant theft etc, ---- BUT people in possesion of the kegs would sure be a lot more protective of them.

Again as i said before i think it is bad beer karma to keep kegs but if a guy cant return it for his $25-$50 depo (or whatever it is) the industry needs to have way to assit othwerise that guy is looking for other ways to get his money back.
 

bleme

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Nearly every sanke I see for sale is for just the cost of deposit. If the retailer would give the deposit back, there wouldn't be a problem. Instead you have retailers that won't give you the deposit back if you lost the receipt, or if it has been over 90 days, etc. It's like they are looking for reasons to keep your deposit, when they should be looking for ways to get back the keg!

If the breweries have a problem with kegs not coming back, I bet they can trace that directly to the retailers who are the problem and pressure them to fix it.
 
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Blazinlow86

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If it's such a big deal there's nothing stopping the brewery from actually charging the correct deposit. Imho it's really there fault this happens. The majority don't know that the deposit doesn't cover the cost and therefore often just don't end up returning the kegs and they eventually end up on Craigslist
 

Qhrumphf

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If it's such a big deal there's nothing stopping the brewery from actually charging the correct deposit. Imho it's really there fault this happens. The majority don't know that the deposit doesn't cover the cost and therefore often just don't end up returning the kegs and they eventually end up on Craigslist
It's the fault of the retailer if the customer isn't clear. That may be the brewery. Often it's not.

Any keg I've sold out the door is logged, customer is made clear they have to bring it back (and the deposits are higher to boot) and once it's surpassed x amount of time phone calls to the customer start. And sometimes it's just lost. Factored into the business plan under projected losses. If other places aren't excercising similar diligence, well that's on them.

But if it goes to a distributor, then to a liquor store or whoever, and then to a customer, and the store doesn't make it clear, and the brewery has no interaction with the customer who keeps it, how is the brewery to blame?
 

Blazinlow86

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It's the fault of the retailer if the customer isn't clear. That may be the brewery. Often it's not.

Any keg I've sold out the door is logged, customer is made clear they have to bring it back (and the deposits are higher to boot) and once it's surpassed x amount of time phone calls to the customer start. And sometimes it's just lost. Factored into the business plan under projected losses. If other places aren't excercising similar diligence, well that's on them.

But if it goes to a distributor, then to a liquor store or whoever, and then to a customer, and the store doesn't make it clear, and the brewery has no interaction with the customer who keeps it, how is the brewery to blame?
Because the brewery didn't charge the full amount of the keg as the deposit to start with regardless who they sold it to. That way if the keg isn't returned they keep the deposit just like the way a deposit works on everything else in life. I can say on the times I've gotten kegs directly from the brewery here multiple times it's never been made clear the deposit doesn't cover the keg. All they say is there's a 50$ deposit on the keg that you get back *if* you return the keg with the receipt. Cheers
 

Qhrumphf

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Because the brewery didn't charge the full amount of the keg as the deposit to start with regardless who they sold it to. That way if the keg isn't returned they keep the deposit just like the way a deposit works on everything else in life. I can say on the times I've gotten kegs directly from the brewery here multiple times it's never been made clear the deposit doesn't cover the keg. All they say is there's a 50$ deposit on the keg that you get back *if* you return the keg with the receipt. Cheers
Can't say I've ever paid full market value on a security deposit on an apartment. Or a rental car.

And when it comes to retail sail out of a brewery taproom, if they're not clear that the keg must be returned, I don't have much sympathy.

But in other cases, the US has a structure in the vast majority of the country where distributors have the power. If they won't accept paying a full value security deposit, you either won't get it and you'll take less, or you get a different distributor. Until you're stuck with the quasi-legal separate but really self distributor. Where you'll see the same with retailers.

Same way if I have two otherwise suitable apartments i could move into, one has a one month rent security deposit, and one wants 3 months, well they can f*** right off.

Markets don't work that way.
 

Blazinlow86

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Can't say I've ever paid full market value on a security deposit on an apartment. Or a rental car.

And when it comes to retail sail out of a brewery taproom, if they're not clear that the keg must be returned, I don't have much sympathy.

But in other cases, the US has a structure in the vast majority of the country where distributors have the power. If they won't accept paying a full value security deposit, you either won't get it and you'll take less, or you get a different distributor. Until you're stuck with the quasi-legal separate but really self distributor. Where you'll see the same with retailers.

Same way if I have two otherwise suitable apartments i could move into, one has a one month rent security deposit, and one wants 3 months, well they can f*** right off.

Markets don't work that way.
We can agree to disagree on this one . Apartments and cars are obviously different as they are registered to the owners therefore they can't just be not returned and resold on Craigslist. Anyway my point stands. If you want to ensure you get the value of the kegs back if there not returned there's a simple solution. Charge the correct amount for the deposit up front. Problem solved. If the distribution doesn't want to pay the correct deposit as you say they can f*** right off and eventually go out of business when nobody sells them beer but that's not the end consumers problem anyway in that regards. Cheers
 

Qhrumphf

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Once again, companies don't exist in a vaccuum, and if you try to impose a rate significantly above the market rate, you're gonna have a bad time. It's Economics 101.

Especially in a three tier scenario where you're required by law to use a distributor. So telling them to f*** off is a lot harder than it is for them to tell you to f*** off.

In an ideal, just, moral world you'd be correct. But in an ideal just moral world, people wouldn't be stealing kegs either.
 

Blazinlow86

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Once again, companies don't exist in a vaccuum, and if you try to impose a rate significantly above the market rate, you're gonna have a bad time. It's Economics 101.

Especially in a three tier scenario where you're required by law to use a distributor. So telling them to f*** off is a lot harder than it is for them to tell you to f*** off.

In an ideal, just, moral world you'd be correct. But in an ideal just moral world, people wouldn't be stealing kegs either.
The breweries set the market rate for what they charge as a keg deposit though. That's my point. If they choose to set that lower than what they should have it's there own fault. While I agree stealing kegs from the back of a brewery or restaurant is not acceptable I think buying a used keg off craigslist is no different than buying a case of used bottles and isn't stealing. Deposit was payed on both. My friend didn't have the receipt for a keg he got from a local brewery for a party and therefore they wouldn't give him his deposit back so he kept the keg and eventually gave it to me. Imo that's not stealing and it's his now to do what he wants with. Cheers
 

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Did someone steal your kegs when you were a child?
It's the fault of the retailer if the customer isn't clear. That may be the brewery. Often it's not.

Any keg I've sold out the door is logged, customer is made clear they have to bring it back (and the deposits are higher to boot) and once it's surpassed x amount of time phone calls to the customer start. And sometimes it's just lost. Factored into the business plan under projected losses. If other places aren't excercising similar diligence, well that's on them.

But if it goes to a distributor, then to a liquor store or whoever, and then to a customer, and the store doesn't make it clear, and the brewery has no interaction with the customer who keeps it, how is the brewery to blame?
 

shoengine

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They should just serialize them, so when they're lent out or sold, they can be properly documented.

"Papers, please!"
 

Qhrumphf

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They should just serialize them, so when they're lent out or sold, they can be properly documented.

"Papers, please!"
They are serialed (at least new ones are, doubtful every one ever fabricated is and some older ones have probably worn down). Been a while since I've looked at it, but I think the keg rental label required to be attached to the keg in VA even needs the serial. And a carbon copy of that has to be available for state inspection.

There are tracking programs that can scan and log those serials. So a given keg can be attached digitally to a customer, and flagged automatically at, a given timeframe to call the customer for the keg back. Bigger breweries moving a huge number of kegs probably don't bother. But many smaller breweries certainly do.

I'm sorry some find it inconvenient, but it's not up for debate or an agree to disagree scenario. If you buy a used keg on Craigslist or a garage sale without proof that it was PURCHASED and not rented, you are buying stolen property.

Period. End of discussion.

Frankly I don't know why HBT mods haven't flagged this the way other illegal practices (or illegal at the time) have been treated and prohibiting talk of it.
 

bleme

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If you buy a used keg on Craigslist or a garage sale without proof that it was PURCHASED and not rented, you are buying stolen property.

Period. End of discussion.
So if you have a keg, and the retailer won't take it back, what are you supposed to do with it?
 

Qhrumphf

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So if you have a keg, and the retailer won't take it back, what are you supposed to do with it?
Don't lose the receipt?

Or take it to the brewery directly. And if they don't want it back, then yeah, I guess at that point do whatever the f*** you want with it.

As far as I'm concerned, the retailer probably jacks up the deposit from distributor probably jacks up the deposit from the brewery, so if some c*** beer shop thinks they *might* lose theirs makes sense they'll just keep yours if it leaves em ahead. But it's not their keg as much as it isn't yours.
 

Blazinlow86

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Don't lose the receipt?

Or take it to the brewery directly. And if they don't want it back, then yeah, I guess at that point do whatever the f*** you want with it.

As far as I'm concerned, the retailer probably jacks up the deposit from distributor probably jacks up the deposit from the brewery, so if some c*** beer shop thinks they *might* lose theirs makes sense they'll just keep yours if it leaves em ahead. But it's not their keg as much as it isn't yours.
The specific question at hand is if the **brewery** and not a 3rd party distributor refuses to give the deposit back because the recipe is lost as happened to my friend therefore he kept the keg is the keg now stolen in your opinion? Cheers
 

Qhrumphf

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The specific question at hand is if the **brewery** and not a 3rd party distributor refuses to give the deposit back because the recipe is lost as happened to my friend therefore he kept the keg is the keg now stolen in your opinion? Cheers
If the *owner* of the keg (brewery, Microstar, whoever) refuses to take it back, as far as I'm concerned you've exercised due diligence to return the keg and at that point, I wouldn't see an issue.

But a 3rd party retailer isn't the owner, and deposit doesn't mean "you bought it".
 

bleme

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If the *owner* of the keg (brewery, Microstar, whoever) refuses to take it back, as far as I'm concerned you've exercised due diligence to return the keg and at that point, I wouldn't see an issue.

But a 3rd party retailer isn't the owner, and deposit doesn't mean "you bought it".
How about if I email the brewery and invite them to come pick it up at my house, 1600 miles away, in exchange for my deposit? Obviously a rhetorical question, but it shows how both the breweries and consumers are being victimized here. Raging at the consumers for problems with the retailers isn't going to help anything.
 
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Qhrumphf

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How about if I email the brewery and invite them to come pick it up at my house, 1600 miles away, in exchange for my deposit? Obviously a rhetorical question, but it shows how both the breweries and consumers are being victimized here. Raging at the consumers for problems with the retailers isn't going to help anything.
At that distance, betcha it's Microstar or an equivalent and not the brewery who own it, who'd still be happy to take it off your hands.
 
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