US 220V and European 220v

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gr3

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Will our controllers that we are using Mypin setup for US 220V work on European 220v.
 

njpatg

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USA runs at 60 HZ Europe at 50 HZ which may cause issues with certain devices
 

ajdelange

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That used to be a problem in the old days when power supplies used transformers. 50 Hz requires more steel and 60 Hz designs tended to overheat. That should not be a problem with a modern power supply most of which are 80 - 250 V 48/62Hz (or something like) rated.
 

ajdelange

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I guess I could believe that if the timing circuitry is based on 20 ms. Seems to me that clock should be sync'd to line but that doesn't mean they did it that way.
 

BigFloppy

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the MyPin is microcontroller based therefore timing is 100% likely to be based on the crystal running the micro NOT the frequency of the ac voltage as the MyPin can probably run anything from 85-220V anyways.. moot point
 

nhamilto40

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Low cost microcontrollers usually use ceramic resonators these days (cheaper if precision timing isn't required).
 

dyqik

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Much more importantly, US 230V is two-phase with a neutral close to ground between the two hot phases, and EU 230V is single-phase with one hot wire and one neutral. You at least need to alter the circuit for one hot phase only at the input.

Without seeing the circuit diagram, it's hard to say what's needed to make it work. The MyPin will be fine running with power coming from one hot 230 V above the neutral (manual for the TA4 says 80-260 VAC 50/60 Hz), and the SSR to element portion should be OK, but it depends on what you've done with the rest of the circuit. Certainly you will need to alter the circuit so that current is supplied on one hot phase, switched, controlled by the SSR, sent to the element and back and returned via the neutral input. The circuit diagram will look much more like a US 120V controller than a US 230V controller.


If you're trying to sell in the EU, you will need to check if you need CE certification (EU equivalent of UL). IIRC this is required for many products.
 

ajdelange

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the MyPin is microcontroller based therefore timing is 100% likely to be based on the crystal running the micro NOT the frequency of the ac voltage as the MyPin can probably run anything from 85-220V anyways.. moot point
The comment in #4 WRT to problems was WRT to controllers that fire SCR's for a fraction of the half cycle or for a certain percentage of the half cycles (better as firing and commutation take place at 0 crossings). Such controllers obviously must be synchronized to the line.

The OP's question is about a PID controller and unless it has an output to trigger SCR's directly(which I have never seen) does not need to be synchronized to the line (and isn't).
 

ajdelange

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Much more importantly, US 230V is two-phase with a neutral close to ground between the two hot phases, and EU 230V is single-phase with one hot wire and one neutral.
That's not significant at all. 220V is 220V whether it be taken across a center tapped (US) transformer winding or not (Europe). Clearly everything is wired to withstand more than 350 V or the device couldn't withstand 220 V across it's input terminals whether that be from a one of the 3 phases in a 3 phase system (Europe) or a biphase system (US which is really one of 3 phases in a 3 phase system that just happens to center tapped). In other words, it doesn't matter where the 220V potential difference floats WRT earth as long as the insulation can handle that float. In this case it clearly must.

You at least need to alter the circuit for one hot phase only at the input.
No alteration necessary at all. You just wire it a little differently. In the US wire each of the phases (red and black) to the power input terminals and the grounding conductor (bare) to the ground terminal. In Europe wire the single phase (hot) conductor (Brown) to one input power terminal, the grounded conductor (neutral - blue) to the other power input terminal and the grounding conductor (Green w/ yellow stripe) to the earth terminal.

Without seeing the circuit diagram, it's hard to say what's needed to make it work.
Not really. Whereas in the US the circuit connects between red and black (two phases - note that phase in this context means a hot wire) with the neutral un-used and in Europe its between the only phase and the neutral. IOW, assuming your wiring diagram properly uses red and black for the phases, connect the Brown European feed wire to the Red and the Blue European feed wire to the Black and you are there.
 

dyqik

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That's not significant at all. 220V is 220V whether it be taken across a center tapped (US) transformer winding or not (Europe). Clearly everything is wired to withstand more than 350 V or the device couldn't withstand 220 V across it's input terminals whether that be from a one of the 3 phases in a 3 phase system (Europe) or a biphase system (US which is really one of 3 phases in a 3 phase system that just happens to center tapped). In other words, it doesn't matter where the 220V potential difference floats WRT earth as long as the insulation can handle that float. In this case it clearly must.
It's significant if you are using the neutral for anything in the US spec circuit as a significant number of the controller circuits posted here do. e.g. powering the PID or anything else from one hot and one neutral. That's why you need to look at the circuit diagram before saying nothing needs to be changed.

Take the first 230V US controller on this sub-forum at the moment: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=282235 This uses the neutral between the two hots, and needs adaptation for single-phase power. Now, I think it would work by just tying the red internal hot phase internally to the yellow neutral, but that's still an alteration. Looking at the list of PJ's electrical diagrams, several of the first few in the thread won't work exactly as designed if you simply tie the internal neutral line to either hot leg (PID is powered off of one hot leg to neutral, E-stop or a contactor works off the other hot leg to neutral).

And I'm not sure that would fly for CE approval if this is a commercial product (which it sounds like to me from the OP, and the OP's other posts). At the very least, the controller's input sockets would have to be replaced with 3 wire sockets, and the wiring inside may need different colours. This is not that big a deal for a DIY controller, but for commercially produced panels, it could be a significant additional expense.
 

ajdelange

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It's significant if you are using the neutral for anything in the US spec circuit as a significant number of the controller circuits posted here do. e.g. powering the PID or anything else from one hot and one neutral. That's why you need to look at the circuit diagram before saying nothing needs to be changed.
But what he asked was
Will our controllers that we are using Mypin setup for US 220V work on European 220v.
If he hopes to get 120 from a European feeder he will have to install transformers but he doesn't hope to. All he wants is to hook up his universal power supply controllers.

Take the first 230V US controller on this sub-forum at the moment: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=282235 This uses the neutral between the two hots, and needs adaptation for single-phase power.
He has chosen to power his universal supply congtroller with 110V. He could just a easily have chosen 220. All he has to do is connect the neutral to the second phase for the Euorpean conversion (and eliminate the 120V socket because there ain't no 120. But I reiterate, this isn't what OP asked about. Yes, if you have a hybrid 120/240 system with loads at both voltages you will have to make changes. If it's a real 240 V system it isn't rocket science.

Now, I think it would work by just tying the red internal hot phase internally to the yellow neutral, but that's still an alteration. Looking at the list of PJ's electrical diagrams, several of the first few in the thread won't work exactly as designed if you simply tie the internal neutral line to either hot leg (PID is powered off of one hot leg to neutral, E-stop or a contactor works off the other hot leg to neutral).
I wouldn't touch much of what I see here with a 10 foot (dry) pole. Properly designed systems will transition seamlessly.
 

augiedoggy

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the MyPin is microcontroller based therefore timing is 100% likely to be based on the crystal running the micro NOT the frequency of the ac voltage as the MyPin can probably run anything from 85-220V anyways.. moot point
All the mypins run on 24v dc... There is a powersupply for this built in so as long as the thing powers up it will work correctly right? I dont see how it wouldnt...
 

ajdelange

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My guess (though I've never taken one apart) is that the power lines come into a bridge followed by DC/DC converters for whatever voltages the individual circuits need. Thus, conceptually and if my hypothesis is correct, they could run on AC or DC input and some of the other controllers of similar origin are so labeled.
 

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