US-05 vs. Nottingham

[d40dave]

I save my yeast and my refrigerator it's getting full. I have 2 ale recipes I like that I got on this forum, Cream of Three Crops uses US-05 and Centennial Blonde uses Nottingham. I am planning of doing an experiment to see if I can taste the difference between the two yeasts for both recipes. Does anyone think I will be able to notice a difference between the two? And does anyone have a preference between the these two yeasts? Thanks.

 

[Immocles]

I've brewed both of those recipes a few times with various yeasts, and I dont think you'd notice a difference. I dont have much of a taste preference between the two, but I find notty to be a complete workhorse. Takes off quicker in my experience, is a little more flexible to lower temps, clears quicker, and makes a nice solid yeast slug on the bottom of my bottles. Its probably a bit more neutral than 05 as well, but I really doubt I could ever be able to taste a difference.

I've never thought twice about using the two interchangeably, but I've since decided that notty will be my default ale yeast unless I'm looking for something in particular.

 

[d40dave]

I will still do a swap experiment (underway) and if I do not prefer one or the other I will stay with the stick with the notty, thanks.

 

[Immocles]

Yep, experiment away! Its part of the fun, after all. Either yeast in those recipes will be great though. I keep some variation of one or the other stocked at all times since they go over so well with family and friends.

 

[Gnomebrewer]

I don't think you'll notice a difference in those beers. Maybe in more hop forward beers (I think Notty mutes hop flavour and aroma, but haven't done side-by-sides). I second Notty being a faster worker - it drops clear faster, too.

 

[Yooper]

It depends on fermentation temperature. S05 gets really weirdly peachy below about 66F, while nottingham is perfectly clean at 62-64, but gets really oddly estery at above about 66-68F. If you fermented them both at 66, they would probably be the same. Warmer, and the S05 would taste cleaner. Colder, the nottingham would be great.

 

[Immocles]

I keep hearing about that peachy flavor from 05 at lower temps, but I have yet to experience it. I dont doubt that its there, but I must not taste it as easily as others do. I know at some point I've had to have fermented it multiple times at lower temp, but now that I have my control a bit more zeroed in, I might have to purposely give it a shot in a really basic small batch blonde ale to see if I can get it to come through.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

"Would you recommend nottingham yeast in 2020?" (AHA forums) also discusses Nottingham, US-05, and peach flavors from certain yeast strains. I know that some people taste it, and it reads like people can learn to taste it. I'm not in either of those groups. In the winter, I can ferment with US-05 at 60F-ish (wort, not ambient) - but (currently) don't taste peach flavors in those beers.

 

[Willy]

Okay - it has been years since anyone updated this thread and I wanted to share my thoughts having done about 7 split batches of various styles (mostly blonde IPAs, or amber ales).

Nottingham hits the wort faster and harder. I use a iSpindel in each fermenter to track temp and progress in breaking down the sugars. I included two charts to highlight the differences.

Nottingham also makes the temp warmer in conjunction with the faster fermentation. This is no surprise of course since active fermentation can raise the temp. Basically - it just confirms that Nottingham is faster in the early days to begin to ferment.

This batch is a reddish English nut brown ale, OG was measured at 1.054 on an Anton Paar easy dens and confirmed in a hygrometer. I adjusted the brewspy tracking to have an OG of 1.054 - which was very close to the expected 1.052 from brewfather recipe calculations.

Red is Nottingham and black is US-05.
Both fermentation buckets at 5 gal and harvested from the kettle in tandem with a Y splitter to ensure as a wort similar to each batch as much as possible. Same container Northern Brewer 7 gal bucket. Both directly pitched and stored side by side indoors at the same temp.

Another observation from history. Nottingham with finish up first with minimal "action" after day 4 or 5. US-05 will finish up on day 5-7 and be still for several days before I get a few squiggles in the chart on days 10-14. Nottingham typically is a straight line.

After completion I really can't taste any difference unless I am being ridiculous ... Nottingham is a little less clean by the smallest and imperceptible margin. Both make an amazing ale style beer and are exceptionally clean.

 

[dmtaylor]

After completion I really can't taste any difference unless I am being ridiculous ... Nottingham is a little less clean by the smallest and imperceptible margin. Both make an amazing ale style beer and are exceptionally clean.

Cool data, but... FYI... neither of those fermentations is complete. Or maybe the graph goes out if you scroll farther right? Of course these should be flat lines for about 3 days before they should be called complete.

 

[Willy]

Cool data, but... FYI... neither of those fermentations is complete. Or maybe the graph goes out if you scroll farther right? Of course these should be flat lines for about 3 days before they should be called complete.

Yes... It is actually real time ferment data... Not even two days into it. But, this is my 7th test on this... So I am sharing previous conclusions from those fully fermented batches.

 

[Broken Crow]

Yes... It is actually real time ferment data... Not even two days into it. But, this is my 7th test on this... So I am sharing previous conclusions from those fully fermented batches.

Thanks for bringing this thread up! I've used both but it's been a while and this is exactly a comparison I've been wondering about lately as my own memory is vague.

 

[dmtaylor]

FWIW.... I have gotten peach esters from both US-05 and Nottingham when fermenting cold 55-60 F. YMMV.

 

[Willy]

FWIW.... I have gotten peach esters from both US-05 and Nottingham when fermenting cold 55-60 F. YMMV.

Oh yeah, agreed. The lower range can do peachy. If you want that ... Ferment there. If you stay at 66-70 it should be clean... Or cleaner.

 

[day_trippr]

It's not a good peach imo. Same thing happened when I ran Conan around 60°F. No bueno...

Cheers!

 

[CodyRonan]

In the old days I'd sometimes get a tartness from notty. It was back before I adjusted Ph in the mash so maybe that had something to do with it.

 

[VTMongoose]

I have something to contribute to this thread, actually. I did a split batch of a cream ale right after moving into my new house. I split 7 gallons into two Oxebar kegs and fermented both under pressure (25 psi) at 66°F. One pack nottingham in one, one US-05 in the other. Simple brew: Liberty hops, pale malt, polenta, sugar, carapils.

https://share.brewfather.app/b5D92a6XjkidsC

Nottingham finished way faster, as is typical. After cold crashing and serving to myself and others numerous times, the general consensus was:

1) US-05 is crisper and more hop-forward - the yeast makes the same wort seem hoppier and drier despite the same FG.
2) Nottingham is "maltier" - although it might just be that the little malt character that's there is not "hidden" by the hop character the US-05 version highlights.
3) Nottingham is much cleaner. US-05 throws some esters that almost come across as pale ale/IPA-like, and compliment/enhance the hop character further.
4) The Nottingham version was the uncontested winner in terms of both which one people thought would win in a competition, and was also just generally preferred by myself and others. It was more subtle but more balanced.
5) I still emptied the keg of the US-05 version. This was a good beer.

(old pic from before I hit the beers with biofine, only one I could find quickly)

 

[duelerx]

Hard to describe it as peachy but I always found the esters of US-05 a very common trait of homebrews back in the day, I always avoided using 05 and use liquid strains to get more clean flavor profile.

 

[VTMongoose]

Hard to describe it as peachy but I always found the esters of US-05 a very common trait of homebrews back in the day, I always avoided using 05 and use liquid strains to get more clean flavor profile.

That was exactly my impression - it definitely throws esters, but to myself and others, there was nothing we would describe as peachy. Citrusey, if anything. Of course again it could also be some other biotransformation thing happening with hop compounds. Either way US-05 seems to me to be uniquely well suited to the production of WCIPA's and Pale ales. My American Pale Ale on tap right now is practically a perfect representation of the style and all it is is SN's Pale Ale malts (Briess Pale + 1# C60) and a couple ounces of Chinook each at 15 and dry hop, with US-05. In the future I want to split a pale ale between WLP001 dry, US-05, and K97.

 

[Willy]

I have something to contribute to this thread, actually. I did a split batch of a cream ale right after moving into my new house. I split 7 gallons into two Oxebar kegs and fermented both under pressure (25 psi) at 66°F. One pack nottingham in one, one US-05 in the other. Simple brew: Liberty hops, pale malt, polenta, sugar, carapils.

https://share.brewfather.app/b5D92a6XjkidsC

Nottingham finished way faster, as is typical. After cold crashing and serving to myself and others numerous times, the general consensus was:

1) US-05 is crisper and more hop-forward - the yeast makes the same wort seem hoppier and drier despite the same FG.
2) Nottingham is "maltier" - although it might just be that the little malt character that's there is not "hidden" by the hop character the US-05 version highlights.
3) Nottingham is much cleaner. US-05 throws some esters that almost come across as pale ale/IPA-like, and compliment/enhance the hop character further.
4) The Nottingham version was the uncontested winner in terms of both which one people thought would win in a competition, and was also just generally preferred by myself and others. It was more subtle but more balanced.
5) I still emptied the keg of the US-05 version. This was a good beer.

(old pic from before I hit the beers with biofine, only one I could find quickly)

View attachment 863784

My experience on US-05 is that it does a much better job at being clean if the temp is 68-75° ... And that temps in the mid to low 60s has more of the citrus artifacts. Basically I found this is true for most higher temps yeasts... An ale yeast really likes 70-75 and a Kyveik shines if you can ferment at the higher end of the range... 95? No problem for Voss... It is quite clean.

 

[Clint Yeastwood]

I am grateful for this thread, because I am tired of waiting and waiting for US-05.

 

[VTMongoose]

I am grateful for this thread, because I am tired of waiting and waiting for US-05.

I wouldn't say US-05 is slow. Said American Pale Ale above, I pitched it at 66 and finished it off at 68 and you can see it was done in a week:

https://share.brewfather.app/CLopUxTBoc3c1C

Of course Nottingham is still faster and cleaner. I think Nottingham is superior across all beer styles versus Kveik strains, as long as you have temperature control and can keep it in the 60's and prevent it from free rising. It ferments in about the same time once it gets going, it just has a slightly longer lag phase.

 

[Willy]

Here's a graphic update on the Notty vs US-05 after ~4 days. Same wort, 2 5 gal buckets fermenting side by side. One of my iSpindels is pretty well calibrated while the other produces a slightly lower OG and FG but you end up with a similar level of sugar breakdowns ... Both measured at 1.54 OG and after 4 days both were at 1.012 using the Anton Paar easydens. Just use you imagination and you can see how Notty goes in faster and raises the temp quicker during the faster ferment . But... After about 4 or 5 days they both reach a similar gravity reading once US-05 catches up.

 

[johnsonpvb17]

As far far from an expert, I am grateful because after 3 days of waiting on 05 to speed up, I pitched 2 packs of Notty, it took off in two hours and was still going three weeks later into a secondary, and in reading this thread, all other things being equal, should have some drinkable DIPA around Christmas.

 

[mac_1103]

Last time I used US-05 was two packs in 6 gallons of a 1.093 Imperial IPA. Yeast rafts and small bubbles visible within one hour of pitching at 68F and fermentation was basically done in 4 days with excellent attenuation.

 

[AlcheMania]

I just Tapped a US05 pale ale. I clearly didn't do a long and hot enough rest for this yeast. Diacytel and some apricoty flavors that are overshadowing the centennial and moasic. I did 10 days @ 68 and a few @ 72 which is usually plenty of time when im using wlp 007 or nottingham. First and last time for me. I'll give it a few weeks of tasting b4 I dump to make room for the tried and true wlp007 IPA I got fermenting.

 

[day_trippr]

hop creep?

Cheers!

 

[AlcheMania]

hop creep?

Cheers!

Doubt it. I hop day 2 of ferm and again after a slow cold crash. the beer goes from fermenter to serving keg cold. I think the yeast just needed longer to cleanup b4 crash but I'm not crazy enough bout the ester profile (even without the diacetyl, which i am admittedly super senstitive to) So the extra time isn't worth it for me. Was worth a shot to see what all the mixed reviews were about... but I'll stick to repitching wlp007 for my hoppy ales. Little more work. Huge payoff.

 

[mac_1103]

I use US-05 all the time. Never do a D-rest and never had anybody taste anything off. But I almost always leave my beers in the fermenter for at least three weeks.

 

[Willy]

I use US-05 all the time. Never do a D-rest and never had anybody taste anything off. But I almost always leave my beers in the fermenter for at least three weeks.

Me the same. Never do a D rest for an ale yeast. More of a lager 34/70 kind of thing.

 

[duelerx]

Me the same. Never do a D rest for an ale yeast. More of a lager 34/70 kind of thing.

I do it for something like Nottingham if fermented cold.