Upgrading Equipment

[Jbone1072]

Hi all,

I’ve made 4, 5 gallon extract brews since I’ve started brewing and have yet to make a beer that I actually enjoy drinking. Every time they taste just a bit off from what I think they should taste like and aren’t really enjoyable to drink more than one of. I made sure that I am cleaning and sanitizing everything as much as possible and follow the directions to a T. I’ve reached the conclusion that I may need to spend some money on more equipment to get better tasting beer but am looking for your help to decide what is needed most since I don’t want to drop a bunch of money at once. I’ve made two lists below of the equipment I have and then what I think may upgrade my game. Let me know your thoughts!

Current equipment:
1) Brew Share Enjoy Homebrew Starter Kit
2) bottle tree

Wish list:
1) fermentation chamber
2) wort chiller
3) kegging equipment (bottling is terrible)
4) upgraded brew kettle (probably a mega pot from NB)
5) hop spider

Anything else you all can think of?

 

[lumpher]

My main thought is that it's not the equipment, it's your process. Many of us have won awards in major competitions with extract as a base. You can switch to all-grain, but if you have a flaw in your process, it may still be there after converting, depending on what it is. I do HIGHLY recommend getting a ferm chamber with temp controller. That makes a world of difference, regardless of extract or all grain.

 

[Jbone1072]

My main thought is that it's not the equipment, it's your process. Many of us have won awards in major competitions with extract as a base. You can switch to all-grain, but if you have a flaw in your process, it may still be there after converting, depending on what it is. I do HIGHLY recommend getting a ferm chamber with temp controller. That makes a world of difference, regardless of extract or all grain.

I’m not wanting to get into all grain just yet. Just trying to figure out if there’s anything I can buy to help or if I need to refine my process.

 

[mac_1103]

There's nothing wrong with that starter kit you've got. It's certainly better than what lots of people start with. I've started gearing up to do some BIABing, but most of the time I still brew extract on the stove in a cheap five gallon kettle, chill in my sink and ferment in a bucket. So I would say that it's certainly possible to brew good beer without a lot of fancy equipment. You say you "follow the directions to a tee." Are you using kits? Or recipes that you found online?

 

[palmtrees]

In my opinion, the number one best thing you can do to improve your beer (beyond sanitation, of course) is controlling fermentation temperature. A mini fridge or freezer and an ink bird temp controller will give you big and immediate upgrades in flavor.

A very close second is getting the equipment necessary to keep oxygen out of your finished beer. There are ways to do it with bottling, but it seems harder to me. If you're already thinking about kegging, I say go for it becaude it's fairly simple to keep almost all oxygen out with kegs. You can get a cheap fermenter like a Fermonster and modify it like this to give yourself a fermenter that won't let any oxygen in and will let you transfer to a keg oxygen-free. You can also buy fermenters made for that, though they cost a bit more. If you purge your kegs by filling to the top with starsan, using co2 to push the starsan out, and then filling with beer from your fermenter, your beer will basically never touch air. It will stay fresh way longer, and your hop flavors will really pop. When I was bottling, I could never get my ipas to be good for more than a week or two. Now, they're fresh for at least a month; I don't really how long because I always finish the keg before they start to lose flavor!

Controlling fermentation temp and keeping out as much oxygen as possible will do wonders for your beer. I spent years fermenting at room temp and bottling, and I felt like my beer always tasted like homebrew. Then I did everything described above, and the quality jumped up by a lot. That made it much easier for me to dial in my brew day process because my finished beer wasn't being mucked up by warm fermentations and oxygen exposure. Within a few months of kegging, I had gotten my brewing process to a point where I felt like my beer was as good as what I can get commercially. So while I definitely agree with the poster above that your process is super important (and that jumping to all grain won't fix a bad process), I also think you are basically guaranteed to improve your beer with temp control and kegging. And those improvements will help you improve other parts of your process, in turn.

In terms of your wish list, I think your priorities match my advice pretty well! A wort chiller is pretty key for five gallon batches, so no quibbles there. But if you don't have the money to do your top three wish list items at once (kegging is not cheap), I'd save the chiller for your next round of upgrades. And if you have to keep bottling for a bit, there are a lot of threads on here about how to minimize oxygen exposure while bottling. It's worth the effort, if you can't jump to kegging immediately.

 

[Coastalbrew]

I agree with the other folks, that the process is at least as important as the equipment if not more so.

What styles are you brewing? What is your process? Certain styles, like hazy IPA and light lagers for example, are very difficult to brew well and in some cases require special process adjustments and/or equipment to brew well. Other styles are more forgiving and easier to brew while you are learning.

 

[Jbone1072]

There's nothing wrong with that starter kit you've got. It's certainly better than what lots of people start with. I've started gearing up to do some BIABing, but most of the time I still brew extract on the stove in a cheap five gallon kettle, chill in my sink and ferment in a bucket. So I would say that it's certainly possible to brew good beer without a lot of fancy equipment. You say you "follow the directions to a tee." Are you using kits? Or recipes that you found online?

Yep I’m using kits from NB.

 

[NSMikeD]

From "just a bit off" to "aren't really enjoyable" seems like a very narrow band of tolerance. Of course all that matters is whether or not you enjoy your beers and that is totally up to you to decide.

Extract kits, IMO, while producing good beer may fall off the mark from their clone targets. Also, keep in mind that there are other variables that can lead a home brew clone astray of the commercial product.

+1 on sticking to easier to brew styles initially, As mentioned there are certain styles that are notoriously hard to brew, like lagers and NEIPAs.

However is you are following the kits to a tee and the beer is not enjoyable, the first culprit I would look to is fermentation temp. Other factors may not hit the bulls eye but would still produce enjoyable beer. And while today's yeast strains are very tolerable, there are temps that would produce enough of flavors to dump a batch.

One thing you rarely see in kit instructions is how yeast continues to improve beer (ie conditions) beyond the stated bottle time.

It's hard to describe the "off flavor" without a lot of experience, but there are articles that identify the likely causes based on the nature of the off flavors. Do a search and read up to see if anything rings a bell

 

[Jbone1072]

In my opinion, the number one best thing you can do to improve your beer (beyond sanitation, of course) is controlling fermentation temperature. A mini fridge or freezer and an ink bird temp controller will give you big and immediate upgrades in flavor.

A very close second is getting the equipment necessary to keep oxygen out of your finished beer. There are ways to do it with bottling, but it seems harder to me. If you're already thinking about kegging, I say go for it becaude it's fairly simple to keep almost all oxygen out with kegs. You can get a cheap fermenter like a Fermonster and modify it like this to give yourself a fermenter that won't let any oxygen in and will let you transfer to a keg oxygen-free. You can also buy fermenters made for that, though they cost a bit more. If you purge your kegs by filling to the top with starsan, using co2 to push the starsan out, and then filling with beer from your fermenter, your beer will basically never touch air. It will stay fresh way longer, and your hop flavors will really pop. When I was bottling, I could never get my ipas to be good for more than a week or two. Now, they're fresh for at least a month; I don't really how long because I always finish the keg before they start to lose flavor!

Controlling fermentation temp and keeping out as much oxygen as possible will do wonders for your beer. I spent years fermenting at room temp and bottling, and I felt like my beer always tasted like homebrew. Then I did everything described above, and the quality jumped up by a lot. That made it much easier for me to dial in my brew day process because my finished beer wasn't being mucked up by warm fermentations and oxygen exposure. Within a few months of kegging, I had gotten my brewing process to a point where I felt like my beer was as good as what I can get commercially. So while I definitely agree with the poster above that your process is super important (and that jumping to all grain won't fix a bad process), I also think you are basically guaranteed to improve your beer with temp control and kegging. And those improvements will help you improve other parts of your process, in turn.

In terms of your wish list, I think your priorities match my advice pretty well! A wort chiller is pretty key for five gallon batches, so no quibbles there. But if you don't have the money to do your top three wish list items at once (kegging is not cheap), I'd save the chiller for your next round of upgrades. And if you have to keep bottling for a bit, there are a lot of threads on here about how to minimize oxygen exposure while bottling. It's worth the effort, if you can't jump to kegging immediately.

Much appreciated! I think I’ll start with the fermentation chamber, see how that goes and then upgrade to kegging on the next beer. Also, you nailed it with how your first beers turned out. It just tastes like home brew. Doesn’t taste bad but not good either.

I agree with the other folks, that the process is at least as important as the equipment if not more so.

What styles are you brewing? What is your process? Certain styles, like hazy IPA and light lagers for example, are very difficult to brew well and in some cases require special process adjustments and/or equipment to brew well. Other styles are more forgiving and easier to brew while you are learning.

So far I’ve made one amber, one pale ale and two hefs. Of all of them I’d say my most recent Hefeweizen turned out the best so I think I’m on the right track.

 

[NSMikeD]

Much appreciated! I think I’ll start with the fermentation chamber, see how that goes and then upgrade to kegging on the next beer. Also, you nailed it with how your first beers turned out. It just tastes like home brew. Doesn’t taste bad but not good either.

So far I’ve made one amber, one pale ale and two hefs. Of all of them I’d say my most recent Hefeweizen turned out the best so I think I’m on the right track.

whoa. what does that mean??????

 

[camonick]

I haven’t seen it addressed yet, so I’ll ask… what kind of water are you using?

 

[Jbone1072]

I haven’t seen it addressed yet, so I’ll ask… what kind of water are you using?

Up until my last batch I was using water from the tap. My last brew I bought RO water from the store and that beer turned out better.

Moving forward I’ll probably use store bought water. Do you have any suggestions for which types of water would be best?

 

[NSMikeD]

I just looked a the amber ale instructions. They have you doing and primary then a secondary fermentation. This is considering unnecessary and risks oxidation. Once active fermentation is finished and the Yeast settles you can bottle. I do like the month to six weeks before pouring

from the NB instruction sheet :
1-2 weeks in the primary
2 weeks in the secondary
1-2 week bottle condition

 

[NSMikeD]

Up until my last batch I was using water from the tap. My last brew I bought RO water from the store and that beer turned out better.

Moving forward I’ll probably use store bought water. Do you have any suggestions for which types of water would be best?

This could be it. More so with all grain mashing but water does have an impact with extract. Distilled water is usually less expensive and provides a good base clean slate. Same for RO and it sounds like you have access

here is an very good thread on the subject I urge yay to read. It also seems to explain if you experience a "twangy" taste in your beer.


https://www.homebrewtalk.com/thread...ewers-harsh-bitterness-and-aftertaste.128731/

note post 26 lists a technique for avoiding off flavors when using specialty grains that may occur when using RO water.

 

[camonick]

Up until my last batch I was using water from the tap. My last brew I bought RO water from the store and that beer turned out better.

Moving forward I’ll probably use store bought water. Do you have any suggestions for which types of water would be best?

Untreated tap water (chlorinated) is the source of many of the “my beer doesn’t taste right” threads here. Adding a crushed campden tablet to all your brewing water from the tap would help. RO or distilled water will work well for extract batches. I brewed extract beers for almost 16 years with run of the mill equipment and made great beer. I agree with some of the above advice… solid process will make good beer without expensive equipment.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

Do you have any suggestions for which types of water would be best?

As others are mentioning: use distilled / RO water.

• DME/LME makers take just the water out when it is made, distilled / RO water adds just the water back (no additional minerals)
• RO / distilled water does not have chlorine / chloramine - which must be removed before brewing

Spring water can also be an option - it will have some minerals so it may not be 'best' for all styles.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

note post 26 lists a technique for avoiding off flavors when using specialty grains that may occur when using RO water.

Interesting.

FWIW, with the 'stove top' brewing process in How to Brew, 4e the specialty grains are steeped in wort (p 12). The reasons for doing this are also in chapter 1.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

note post 26 lists a technique for avoiding off flavors when using specialty grains that may occur when using RO water.

post 26? or 25?

---

eta: I will likely give the topic (link) you mentioned an 'in depth' read later this week. A couple things that may be of interest to other readers: 1) in the article, note the high Na ppm in #1. 2) in the article, note the brand names of DME that were mentioned. 3) hints at mineral content for various brands of DME can be found in links in the "2022 edition" of the"Advanced Extract Brewing" topic (link).

 

[wallyLOZ]

As stated above, the two biggest improvements in my beer have been fermentation temp control and water.

Tried campden tablets and never got it quite right and switched to distilled. The change was immediate.

Controlled the ferm temp for a while in an old non-working refrigerator with frozen water bottles. Worked but had to keep a close eye on it during active fermentation. I now have a chest freezer and inkbird controller. Much easier.

Good luck and keep us poster on your progress.

 

[mac_1103]

I use tap water filtered through activated charcoal. Tap water varies a lot, not just by location but also over time. Some of us are lucky with good consistent tap water. Others not so much.

 

[doogster]

Biggest jumps in beer quality for me were as follows:

1. Fermentation temp control
2. Campden tablets to treat my brew water (as I use tap water)
3. Do NOT use chlorine to sanitize your equipment

 

[mac_1103]

Homebrewers used bleach for sanitizing equipment for decades before things like Starsan were widely available. I guess Charlie Papazian must have made some really lousy beer.

 

[TheCache]

+1 for fermentation temp control.

You'll need heating and cooling capability to thoroughly control temp from wort cool down through cold crash. I got a freezer and a fermwrap connected to a two stage inkbird controller. You'll also need some kind of method for mitigating suck back when cold crashing (cold crash guardian is a good one). This was the second area I concentrated on after getting my sanitizing and boil processes wired and it made a noticeable difference, particularly as I started exploring different styles.

I still bottle, although I have shifted from extract to all grain biab, but I've got that process pretty smooth and don't notice big oxidation issues. My IPAs hold good flavor and aroma for 2-3 weeks after carbonation, and they have usually been consumed before that point.

 

[doogster]

Homebrewers used bleach for sanitizing equipment for decades before things like Starsan were widely available. I guess Charlie Papazian must have made some really lousy beer.

Hehe... Good point.

Update: If you do use chlorine bleach to sanitize, go overboard when you are rinsing. It only takes a small amount of chlorine to cause issues. I can tell you the switch to StarSan improved my beer.

 

[hotbeer]

I don't think you need to upgrade. You probably need to downsize. That way you can brew more batches to keep your skills current and improve them from batch to batch.

Expensive equipment is unlikely to get you a better beer if you can't make a good enough beer currently in a bucket.

 

[FloppyKnockers]

When I primarily brewed extract beers, there were a few things that exponentially improved the quality of the finished product.

Temp control - it's been said here several times and I'll say it again. However, is it the temp that is the issue? I knew it was when I realized the beers I brewed in the winter were far better than the ones I brewed in the summer. The room temp swing from 68° to 74° was a major impact on flavor.

Split your extract additions - By far the best improvement to my extract batch quality. Only add about 10% of your extract at the beginning of the boil. Add the remainder at 10 - 15 minutes to the end - just enough to sanitize. You don't even need to reach full boil to sanitize 175°+ will do it.

Skipping secondary - Can't say for sure if this changed the flavor or not, but it sure improved my outlook on brewing. One less step makes it less of a chore and more of a hobby. Just like kegging vs bottling... game changer. Like it was said before, though. Get your flavor desirable before you throw more money or equipment at the problem.

 

[dmtaylor]

I'll just set this here, it includes pointers about water that apply not only to just extract brews but to any brewer.

 

[aceluby]

Another thing that can make it taste "off" is extracting tannins from the specialty grains. Err on the side of too low a temp when steeping grains.

 

[beerisambrosia]

...If you purge your kegs by filling to the top with starsan, using co2 to push the starsan out, and then filling with beer from your fermenter, your beer will basically never touch air....

This is brilliant!

 

[BeerNsteadofH2O]

Many, much more experienced than I have made their opinions made, and it's good advise, I started extract brewing,and switched to all grain after my 5th brew day, I used a plastic conical right out of the gate,I used DI/RO water right out of the gate, I wrote down EVERY detail right out of the gate, first 2 batches(oatmeal stout and blonde ale ) were all I expected and more.
Third batch, an imperial blonde ale is where it all went wrong,I was using a swamp cooler set up for cooling, I had an emergency at work and couldnt add ice to the cooler, the June heat(and poorly designed pump set up) raised my brew to 90+F, saying it was bad is an understatement, lesson learned,I built 4 port chiller out of a aquarium chiller and a 20 gallon cooler, problem solved. water quality,sanitation,temp control = process,all important.. recording everything you do, EVERYTHING, no.matter how small the detail will aid in diagnosing your short comings, I've only been brewing 3 years,( about three times a month) and IMHO( and the moochers that raid my beer fridge) what comes out of my fermenters is as good as anything I've had outside my 4 walls..I've done a ton of reading, but still have so, so much to learn, I learn something every brew day,if I dont, I'm miserable,
Botteling, I love using bottles, , my wife and I can wash, sanitize and bottle5(gallon batch + or-) 40 odd bottles in 2 hours,I find it convenient and easy,( I have a system or "process" this year, I put a few dozen of each brew in plastic bottles, its great for taking to parties, making gifts, or on the boat, last year our neighborhood had a block party, my table was Very popular
As others have stated, your gear is fine, it's your process that needs refining, Monks made beer and spirits with gear far more primitive than our worst piece of equipment. (Of coarse we have no clue what it tasted like)I've got 2 beautiful stainless steel all in one conical fermenters, but because they are both "busy" tomorrow, when i brew my saison, I'll break out that original plastic conical and I'm confident it will do the job it was designed to do..and the end product will be delicious..Patience, I know others have mentioned it.. it's important too..refining your gear, is fun, and part of what "we" do, but refining our process is what makes, or breaks us..

Good luck ,enjoy the ride!

BIOW.