Understanding the Auber EZboil DSPR-320

[Bobby_M]

I'm not posting this as an expert on this controller. This is just a place to have discussions about its functionality.

I'm a huge fan of the EZboil concept having used the DSPR120 in my controller for at least 4 years. The major departures from typical PIDs are as follows:
1. No need to tune P.I.D. parameters or autotune. The thing just magically works right out of the box. If by chance it overshoots or undershoots targets, you just adjust one value in the backend and it's fixed.
2. It has built in timers that are triggered by temperature targets.
3. The boil control is extremely granular compared to PIDs due to very short cycle times. Very smooth control with no surging.
4. Boil Acceleration. The easiest way to describe it is that it runs the element 100% until a near boil is reached, then it automatically switches to the manual power setting you normally use for a boil. This is a feature most people don't really understand enough to appreciate but the few times I demoed other controllers, it almost always caused a boil over or nearly so because I got so used to the controller saving my butt.

I started selling some Auber controllers with my brewing system builds and many customers selected the newer and more complex DSPR-320 unit. I was fully comfortable with the more basic and intuitive DSPR120 but I knew I had to upgrade to be able to explain the operations better. It was a bit of a learning curve for me but I finally get it. I have not yet touched on the alarm/relay triggering aspects of it, but the main difference is that the DSPR320 allows for automatic stepping through a schedule or program. I hesitate to say a "mash schedule" because it also allows for boil program steps as well but basically you tell it a temperature and time or a power output and time and it allows for up to 18 steps.

One reason this controller is a little confusing is that it retains the explicit MASH and BOIL modes of the previous EZboil models (there's even a dedicated LED on the face that lights when in MASH mode, but there really is no difference in operation. Mash mode has 9 steps and Boil Mode has another 9 steps. The reason it's a little weird is that you can program temperature OR power steps in either mode so there's really no reason to advance to the Boil mode unless you need more than 9 steps total.

For each step of the program, the "time" field can be set to an actual time in hours:minutes but also "END", "SKIP", "HOLD", and "CONT".

Due to the ability to set very granular steps and the ability to step from a temperature to a boil power automatically, the "boil acceleration" feature of the DSPR120 is still present but should be considered vestigial and disabled.

The slide below shows a pretty typical brew day exploiting the programmability of the 320.

Discuss.... questions?

 

[Dexlor]

After a few brews with my 310D, I finally embraced the programmability. The interface though simple is a bit tedious to set up. I like the way you have it laid out and can provide a good template so that I'm not just winging it as I wait for my water to come to mash temperature.

The one thing I'm looking forward to for my next brew is filling my kettle and set a schedule the night before so that it starts heating up to strike temperature before I head down to the brewery.

 

[Bad Bubba]

Bobby, thanks for the write up. You say there is no need to go to the boil mode unless you need more than 9 steps, but can you still get the boil acceleration in mash mode?

Also can you get it to automatically go from mash mode to boil mode? Right now I do it manually because I need to pull the bag.

I really like the DSPR 320 but it is a bit of a learning curve and I have only done a few brews. It is really great for step mashing.

 

[matt_m]

I remember you previously saying you preferred the simpler 120. After getting the hang of the 320 do you still say that? I accidentally ordered a 120 and have thought a few times about upgrading but never have gotten around to it.

 

[deckbrewer]

Here's the base program I've been using. I tweak for each recipe, but usually in real time rather than rebuild the program for each brew.
I've tried lowering mOut and bOut for a more gentle ramp, but honestly it just prolongs the ramp phase and I haven't had any scorching at 100% so I'm back on that.

As the final step to stop the program, I use mash mode at the same temp as the whirlpool. The trick is that you have to hit your set point before it
executes "end". So if you used boil mode, or even mash mode at a low temp... it wont end automatically.

I have the Auber cube and looked at using the relays to turn on and off the recirculation pump and solenoid for chiller water. But unfortunately 320 doesn't really have enough flexibility in both mash and boil mode to accomplish what I would like. It's probably safer anyway to just leave that under manual control.

Once you grok the menus and "spelling" of the menu options it's pretty straight forward. It really does just work. I can reach a boil reliably in a 15 gallon spike kettle that has only an inch or so to spare without boiling over. I do scoop off the foam and will admit that does help as well.

Settings
------------------------------------
1 TSP (mash step start point)
off Eo (ending option)
0 oSCr (overshoot)
100 mOut (mash max output)
0 Atte (attenuation)

208 bAst (accel set temp)
209 bTSP (boil timer start temp )
100 bOut (boil max output)
off bEo (boil end option)

Mash
---------------------------------
1 160 hold # strike temp, press run when ready
2 150 hold # add grains, press run to start mash timer
3 150 60m # mash
4 150 hold # stop pump, pull basket, start pump, press run
5 170 10m # mashout
6 170 hold # vorlauf over basket for however long , press run to continue to boil
7 170 cont # continue to boil
8
9

Boil
--------------------------------------
1 p55 hold # ramp to boil and hold, add 60min hops, press run to start hop timer
2 p55 45m # add 15min hops, etc
3 p55 10m # add 10min hops etc
4 p65 5m # add 5min hops, recirc through chiller (power % bumped to compensate for chiller load)
6 m170 20m # drop temp and hold for 20min whirlpool
7 m170 end # end program and turn off element
8
9

 

[superiorsat]

I'm assuming at some point the 120 will be gone. Can you run this identical to the 120 ( I don't bother with the boil ramp safety setup either )? I'm much of a hands on brewer and don't mind manually changing my temps during the mash. I have enough time to run to the store or whatever between steps. I guess I'll have to stock up on the 120's if this has to be on a timed schedule. This old dog has no desire for new tricks. LOL.

 

[Bobby_M]

Bobby, thanks for the write up. You say there is no need to go to the boil mode unless you need more than 9 steps, but can you still get the boil acceleration in mash mode?

Also can you get it to automatically go from mash mode to boil mode? Right now I do it manually because I need to pull the bag.

I really like the DSPR 320 but it is a bit of a learning curve and I have only done a few brews. It is really great for step mashing.

The boil acceleration function works any time the program target is a P=xx (power setting) whether it's in the mash program or boil program. However, the point I was making is that on this controller I prefer to disable the boil acceleration by setting bAST to 0 and btsp to 0.

The reason is that you can just program the same functionality in the Mset/Bset.

In the chart I posted, this is the substitution for the boil acceleration process... I clipped the M5 in the picture below but M5 was Temp 162F and HOLD for the time. That's when it waits for me to pull the bag.

The end of the mash, after I lift the bag I advance the previous HOLD by hitting RUN and it goes to M6 which runs the preboil wort up to 210F
The "CONT" command advances it directly to the boil program. The first step of boil is B1 = P55 for 5 minutes. That's about how long it takes me to get from 210F up to a 212F boil at 55% output. B2 is when I add my 60 minute hops and then the boil progresses from there.

Of course using boil acceleration just like I did in the DSPR120 would still function properly and I know how to use it well. The reason I moved to a more program based method is because it's easier to explain to people new to this system. Boil acceleration lives in the back menu and it confuses a lot of people when their controller says P20 but the element is outputting 100% power.

 

[Bobby_M]

I'm assuming at some point the 120 will be gone. Can you run this identical to the 120 ( I don't bother with the boil ramp safety setup either )? I'm much of a hands on brewer and don't mind manually changing my temps during the mash. I have enough time to run to the store or whatever between steps. I guess I'll have to stock up on the 120's if this has to be on a timed schedule. This old dog has no desire for new tricks. LOL.

On the 120, I find the boil acceleration feature to be the killer application of the controller. I think it's something you should learn to use because it's very simple. Just set bAST to 208 and set the Power level on the main screen to whatever you normally boil at.. That's all there is to it. When you switch to boil mode, it runs the element 100% until it hits 208. Then it drops down to the power setting on the screen. That is super simple and will prevent accidental boilovers 100% of the time. Frankly if you're brewing on an electric system, that's a very new trick so drop that old dogs line.

The 320 can be run somewhat manually but you do have to program at least the first step of the mash and the first step of the boil.

In Mset menu, M1=0 and time 24 hours..

In Bset menu B1=P50 and time 24 hours.

At that point you just start your brew day with Reset = Y, then press RUN. That puts it into mash mode step 1 and you can tweak the target temperature with the knob real time and the timer starts and just counts down from 24 hours.

When you switch to boil mode and hit RUN, it will start heating at 50% power and you can adjust the knob to change it.

In other words, it has to be running a program but that program can be a single step that you can modify on the fly.

I don't think they have any plans to discontinue the 120. There are a lot of customers that prefer the simplicity. I sell about 50% 120s in the all the systems I make.

 

[Bobby_M]

I remember you previously saying you preferred the simpler 120. After getting the hang of the 320 do you still say that? I accidentally ordered a 120 and have thought a few times about upgrading but never have gotten around to it.

I'm still undecided. I have the 320 in my new controller simply because I was getting asked for support on how to brew on the 320 and I really didn't know how to explain it without brewing on it myself. I have one brew on it so far where I kept the program very simple. I'm brewing today with the more advanced program that I suggested above.

I brew at my shop so I'm very unlikely to have it start heating strike water while I'm still not in the building. I'm just too nervous about fire liability when I'm not the only occupant in the building. So... the delay start thing is moot for me.

I use Brewfather so all my mash steps and boil additions are timed out there. The automatic program functions of the 320 are lost on me a little there but I think the useful part is step mashing where I really don't need to be there.

 

[superiorsat]

The 320 can be run somewhat manually but you do have to program at least the first step of the mash and the first step of the boil.

OK if not to old, lets say too stubborn to want to set timers for my whole brew day. I could probably stand setting one timer then freelancing, but I think I'll grab a couple 120's just to keep on hand. As far as the boil ramp setting that I don't use, I'm right there as I am transferring the wort. It passes through my HERMS coil ( set to 205 degrees after the mash on a different controller ) on the way to the kettle. It is going into the kettle between 175 and 195 so by the time I'm done transferring ( boil kettle element running simultaneously set at 94% ) the kettle is already between 208/210.

 

[cfrazier77]

You are right on the ezboil is easy to use and very functional. I put one in my friend's controller. I just wish it had .1 resolution as that is what I am used to with my controller.

 

[Bobby_M]

I'm still undecided. I have the 320 in my new controller simply because I was getting asked for support on how to brew on the 320 and I really didn't know how to explain it without brewing on it myself. I have one brew on it so far where I kept the program very simple. I'm brewing today with the more advanced program that I suggested above.

I brew at my shop so I'm very unlikely to have it start heating strike water while I'm still not in the building. I'm just too nervous about fire liability when I'm not the only occupant in the building. So... the delay start thing is moot for me.

I use Brewfather so all my mash steps and boil additions are timed out there. The automatic program functions of the 320 are lost on me a little there but I think the useful part is step mashing where I really don't need to be there.

I probably have 10 batches under my belt with the DSPR-320 so I'm more comfortable with the programming aspect. I do use it in that capacity, even if I'm not running an unattended step mash program. I've been running the boil program as one lump time period, usually set with a few extra minutes and then I just use the brew day timer on Brew Father to add my hops and other boil additions.

On the other hand, since I'm using the brew day timer, I wouldn't feel crippled by going back to the DSPR120 because I'd be remotely alerted to necessary mash temp changes and it would just be a short walk and knob twist.

 

[Orangecrusher]

Thank you for talking about this. I'm wrapping up my Electric build and I'm very nervous about my first brew day on it. I've done very little studying on how the 320 works so your explanation helps a lot. I've heard it's not a bad idea to run a program with just water to see how it goes and make mistakes that way. I'm not sure I'll be that patient but I'm gonna try. lol I'm just happy it sounds like I chose a good controller to use.

 

[Bobby_M]

Thank you for talking about this. I'm wrapping up my Electric build and I'm very nervous about my first brew day on it. I've done very little studying on how the 320 works so your explanation helps a lot. I've heard it's not a bad idea to run a program with just water to see how it goes and make mistakes that way. I'm not sure I'll be that patient but I'm gonna try. lol I'm just happy it sounds like I chose a good controller to use.

Certainly nothing says you have to program all the steps to the game day numbers. Just set everything for a couple minutes and make sure you have it under control. One of the biggest things that seems to trip new users up, based on how many calls I get when someone is in the middle of brewing, is that they don't disable the bAST feature. It's one of the most backend features that make the controller act possessed if you don't understand it.

Set
"0" bAst (accel set temp)
"0" bTSP (boil timer start temp )

Then the program obeys your intuitive steps. In other words, instead of using bAST set to 208 to ramp up to a boil, just use a mash step set to 208F and set the time to 1 minute.

 

[homebrewdude76]

When you step mash with this 320 controller, can it vary the output %.

Can I go from 70F to 160F with the element at 100%
Maintain mash temp of 152F with the element at 25%?
Mash out 152-168F with the element at 25%.

 

[Bobby_M]

Yes, but not as easily as programming the mash profile. It has a back menu parameter call Mout

Since it's not a per-step parameter, you'd have to go into the menu to set that parameter lower for the actual steps that involve holding the mash steady.

This is the one main advantage the Blichmann Brewcommander has over the EZboils (other than the sexy color touch screen).

 

[doug293cz]

Since it's not a per-step parameter, you'd have to go into the menu to set that parameter lower for the actual steps that involve holding the mash steady.

But the control algorithm in the 320 limits power during temp hold steps, similar to what a PID does.

Brew on

 

[Bobby_M]

But the control algorithm in the 320 limits power during temp hold steps, similar to what a PID does.

Brew on

Except when the delta is great enough to demand 100% output, such as when you're stepping up from 120 to 148F. It would be nice if mash step 2 was
=148F @ 50% max power for 40 minutes. If I want a more gentle ramp, I'll go 125F for 5min, 130 for 5min, 135, 140, 148 etc..... There are a total of 18 target slots so it's doable..

 

[doug293cz]

Except when the delta is great enough to demand 100% output, such as when you're stepping up from 120 to 148F. It would be nice if mash step 2 was
=148F @ 50% max power for 40 minutes. If I want a more gentle ramp, I'll go 125F for 5min, 130 for 5min, 135, 140, 148 etc..... There are a total of 18 target slots so it's doable..

In the DSPR320, mOUT limits the power while heating during ramps between different mash temp holds. I'm not aware of any PIDs that have a similar parameter.

Brew on

 

[Bobby_M]

I think I said that in post #16?

My point was that the mOUT setting is universal whenever the controller is running a temperature target step and it would be nicer if it were on a per step basis. One example of where you would want that precision is that you'd want 100% output when running from room temp to 162F strike temp and then perhaps a mOUT of 50% when running a step mash.

By no means am I saying the Brew Commander is better than the DSPR320, but it's nice that you can limit the mOUT setting right on the home page at any time. It's not called mOUT on the BC, but there is a % power that is set for either boiling or temp target.

 

[doug293cz]

I think I said that in post #16?

My point was that the mOUT setting is universal whenever the controller is running a temperature target step and it would be nicer if it were on a per step basis. One example of where you would want that precision is that you'd want 100% output when running from room temp to 162F strike temp and then perhaps a mOUT of 50% when running a step mash.

By no means am I saying the Brew Commander is better than the DSPR320, but it's nice that you can limit the mOUT setting right on the home page at any time. It's not called mOUT on the BC, but there is a % power that is set for either boiling or temp target.

What about using one of the alarm relays to switch between DSPR SSR control, and full on during strike water heat-up? Is that possible? I haven't studied all the different things you can do with the alarm relays on the 320.

Brew on

 

[Bobby_M]

What about using one of the alarm relays to switch between DSPR SSR control, and full on during strike water heat-up? Is that possible? I haven't studied all the different things you can do with the alarm relays on the 320.

Brew on

I haven't done anything with the relays but it's probably possible. Perhaps a contactor that bypasses the SSR and the temp alarm opens those contacts when strike is achieved (or a couple degrees below to avoid overshoot).

 

[Watchra Kongnim]

I need help,
since I designed the circuit myself. I don't know much about electrical circuits. when i turn on the heater switch without being activated by the dspr320, but why is there instantaneous power coming out of the heater pin and the heater lamp being on immediately? And is there any advice on the circuit I'm designing?

 

[doug293cz]

I assume you are testing without the element connected to the power outlet. Is this correct? If so, you are seeing one of the lesser known quirks of an SSR. SSRs do not completely isolate input from output. They basically switch from a high resistance state when off to a low resistance state when on. Thus, they leak a little bit of current when off, and if measured with a high impedance meter (like typical voltmeters) you see voltage at the output. The leakage current and voltage present are enough to light up the "Element Firing" lamp. Once the element is connected, you will see behavior like you originally expected. Make sure to have the element covered by water before testing with the element connected.

Here is a circuit model which closely approximates an SSR, and my help you understand what I said in the previous paragraph.

Brew on

 

[Watchra Kongnim]

I assume you are testing without the element connected to the power outlet. Is this correct? If so, you are seeing one of the lesser known quirks of an SSR. SSRs do not completely isolate input from output. They basically switch from a high resistance state when off to a low resistance state when on. Thus, they leak a little bit of current when off, and if measured with a high impedance meter (like typical voltmeters) you see voltage at the output. The leakage current and voltage present are enough to light up the "Element Firing" lamp. Once the element is connected, you will see behavior like you originally expected. Make sure to have the element covered by water before testing with the element connected.

Here is a circuit model which closely approximates an SSR, and my help you understand what I said in the previous paragraph.

View attachment 824416

Brew on

Thank you for answer, yes i'm testing without the element. you made me understand better.

 

[natmartin]

One quirk of the DSPR 320: If you change the units from F to C, all of the set points stay at the numerical number they were at before. This means, for example, that the boiling point will stay at 212... but will now be C instead of F, and the boil-acceleration will never turn off!

So if you change the unit, be sure to go through and change every other setting as well.

 

[Bobby_M]

One quirk of the DSPR 320: If you change the units from F to C, all of the set points stay at the numerical number they were at before. This means, for example, that the boiling point will stay at 212... but will now be C instead of F, and the boil-acceleration will never turn off!

So if you change the unit, be sure to go through and change every other setting as well.

That's good to know, but how often would you switch back and forth? FYI, I don't believe the boil acceleration function makes any sense with the 320. It is easily replaced by a step that targets just below boiling with either 1minute duration or "hold" and then the boil function the very next step in the program. It does the same thing as boil acceleration but it does it transparently so it's very easy to understand what phase you're in.

 

[natmartin]

I agree you're unlikely to change it often. But I used it the first time in F because I didn't get around to changing it yet, and the second brew I changed it to C... and nearly got a boil over! So it can still be surprising.

Definitely both methods can work to get to boil. I might try your suggestion next time.

 

[butterblum]

Yes, but not as easily as programming the mash profile. It has a back menu parameter call Mout

View attachment 821769
View attachment 821771

Since it's not a per-step parameter, you'd have to go into the menu to set that parameter lower for the actual steps that involve holding the mash steady.

This is the one main advantage the Blichmann Brewcommander has over the EZboils (other than the sexy color touch screen).

Bobby - does mOut vary the element power only during ramps between mash steps? Or does it also vary element power while maintaining a set temp during a step in a program?

 

[ba-brewer]

Pretty sure mOut also applies to the steady state conditions but it is hard to tell as the controller adjust the duty cycle to hold temp.

 

[Bobby_M]

It's a power limiter that is always in force.

 

[Bobby_M]

To add to that statement though... the power limiter would be more impactful when it's trying to perform a large temp change. When it's in the middle of holding a temp, the algorithm would never actually try to run full or "high" power anyway. For example, if you set mOUT to 50%, if it needs to cycle the element occasionally to top off the temp, it would likely only try pulsing at 10% more or less. That's the beauty of the DSPRs.

 

[nsurround]

It is a little late to ask a question on this thread but when you turn the DSPR320 'off' with your controller setup do you lose the mash step program that have been programed previously? There seems to be nothing in the manual that says anything about this in regards to memory etc.

 

[Bobby_M]

It saves the last program even when the module is powered off.

 

[butterblum]

To add to that statement though... the power limiter would be more impactful when it's trying to perform a large temp change. When it's in the middle of holding a temp, the algorithm would never actually try to run full or "high" power anyway. For example, if you set mOUT to 50%, if it needs to cycle the element occasionally to top off the temp, it would likely only try pulsing at 10% more or less. That's the beauty of the DSPRs.

Right - I only ask because the manual doesn't make it sound like a global variable; the documentation seems to imply that it is explicitly for ramp steps only.

 

[Bobby_M]

Right - I only ask because the manual doesn't make it sound like a global variable; the documentation seems to imply that it is explicitly for ramp steps only.

I went back and read the manual again based on this comment and I wanted to agree with you that it's not very clear what the mOUT actually is. They are very clear about the interaction between bAST and bOUT, though it's way more intuitive in the DSPR120 since ther e is only one mash and one boil mode/target. I suspect enabling the bAST (by filling in something other than zero) in the 320 only functions when a program transitions from a temp target to a boil power target step. If mOUT applies to any ramp between target temps, I think I'd argue that mOUT is essentially a global setting in regards to temperature to temperature ramps and it is ignored if the next step is a boil power step.

The real takeaway that I meant on that last post though is that a user should not be concerned with temp maintain situations because the controller is smart enough to know that turning the element on for more than a couple/several milliseconds is going to overshoot the target. When the SV and PV temps are both 150F, you won't find it trying to hold the heat on for more than a few % no matter what you have mOUT set to.