Type of vanilla extract to use

[toddo97]

I'm getting ready to make a Xocoveza beer soon and am looking at trying vanilla extract rather than beans since I don't feel like taking out a second mortgage for those. What type of extract should be used--pure is considerably more expensive, but will the cheaper non-pure stuff be noticeably different tasting? Is a good ratio around 2-3 beans/oz of extract?

 

[RPh_Guy]

Cheap vanilla is an imitation product -- artificial flavor. It'll say "imitation" right on the label.
The flavor is one-dimensional compared to vanilla from a vanilla bean. You may find it acceptable though; it's your call what's in your budget.

I get beans 5 at a time on amazon and make my own extract.

 

[toddo97]

Cheap vanilla is an imitation product -- artificial flavor. It'll say "imitation" right on the label.
The flavor is one-dimensional compared to vanilla from a vanilla bean. You may find it acceptable though; it's your call what's in your budget.

I get beans 5 at a time on amazon and make my own extract.

That's a thought--how much extract will 5 beans make?

 

[RPh_Guy]

how much extract will 5 beans make?

That's like asking how much beer an ounce of hops makes.

5 beans is enough for several 5 gal batches in my opinion, but it depends how much vanilla you want to use.

Cheers

 

[SoCal-Doug]

If varies by beer style, but here's an example of a 5 gallon batch of simple and mild vanilla porter I recently kegged:

5 beans, split, scraped, and everything soaked in a few ounces of vodka for 2 weeks, shaken daily.
I put the whole thing (vodka, bean bits, scrapings, etc) into the porter at the end of fermentation and trub removal (I use conicals)
It then sat for three weeks and was swirled around at least once a day.
Turned out about right, maybe a touch light. Maybe 6 beans or 4 weeks next time

The beans were fairly fresh and soft Madagascar's bought on amazon (yeah its amazon, who knows, could have actually been grown in Wisconsin or something). They did smell amazing and potent while I was slicing them.

 

[toddo97]

If varies by beer style, but here's an example of a batch of simple and mild vanilla porter I recently kegged:

5 beans, split, scraped, and everything soaked in a few ounces of vodka for 2 weeks, shaken daily.
I put the whole thing (vodka, bean bits, scrapings, etc) into the porter at the end of fermentation and trub removal
It then sat for three weeks and was swirled around at least once a day.
Turned out about right, maybe a touch light. Maybe 6 beans or 4 weeks next time

And that was for a 5 gallon batch?

 

[SoCal-Doug]

Yup, 5.25 gallons in the fermenter. Sorry, I made edits.

I actually liked it and thought too much more would be overkill. You got the vanilla on the nose and pallet but it did not take over the other flavors. Blended kinda nice. The folks I brewed with wanted a lot more vanilla aroma and flavor. It all depends what you want.

 

[redarmy990]

If varies by beer style, but here's an example of a 5 gallon batch of simple and mild vanilla porter I recently kegged:

5 beans, split, scraped, and everything soaked in a few ounces of vodka for 2 weeks, shaken daily.
I put the whole thing (vodka, bean bits, scrapings, etc) into the porter at the end of fermentation and trub removal (I use conicals)
It then sat for three weeks and was swirled around at least once a day.
Turned out about right, maybe a touch light. Maybe 6 beans or 4 weeks next time

The beans were fairly fresh and soft Madagascar's bought on amazon (yeah its amazon, who knows, could have actually been grown in Wisconsin or something). They did smell amazing and potent while I was slicing them.

I did something similar but used 3 beans soaked for 5 weeks at room temps, tasted great in my cream ale.

 

[SoCal-Doug]

That sounds about right. A cream ale is much lighter than a porter and gives the vanilla more chance to shine through, less needed for sure. My vanilla had to punch through a lot more maltiness. Bet it was tasty!

 

[toddo97]

If varies by beer style, but here's an example of a 5 gallon batch of simple and mild vanilla porter I recently kegged:

5 beans, split, scraped, and everything soaked in a few ounces of vodka for 2 weeks, shaken daily.
I put the whole thing (vodka, bean bits, scrapings, etc) into the porter at the end of fermentation and trub removal (I use conicals)
It then sat for three weeks and was swirled around at least once a day.
Turned out about right, maybe a touch light. Maybe 6 beans or 4 weeks next time

The beans were fairly fresh and soft Madagascar's bought on amazon (yeah its amazon, who knows, could have actually been grown in Wisconsin or something). They did smell amazing and potent while I was slicing them.

My one experience with buying beans was Madagascar beans from Amazon--2 beans in a tincture for a couple of weeks into 1.5 gallons of porter and I barely tasted a thing which is why I'm wondering about extract.

 

[RPh_Guy]

I chop my beans into little pieces and put my tincture on a stir plate for a day or so

It's pretty potent.

 

[redarmy990]

I used extract once it was like a oil slick floating atop the stout and killed the head retention, thats why i bought the beans from Amazon, quick tip if you buy beans store them inside a ziploc, put that into another ziploc and that inside another ziploc, holds all the flavour in for months and months

 

[redarmy990]

That sounds about right. A cream ale is much lighter than a porter and gives the vanilla more chance to shine through, less needed for sure. My vanilla had to punch through a lot more maltiness. Bet it was tasty!

Was definitely tasty and only lasted on tap around a week and a half. Family loved it

 

[SoCal-Doug]

Split the beans longways . Scrape the goop out of the inside of each half (I looks like fig newton filling). Then put everything (goop and been pieces) in the vodka or everclear (something neutral and unflavored). Let it extract out for at least a couple weeks. 4 weeks plus would be even better.

 

[redarmy990]

Split the beans longways . Scrape the goop out of the inside of each half (I looks like fig newton filling). Then put everything (goop and been pieces) in the vodka or everclear (something neutral and unflavored). Let it extract out for at least a couple weeks. 4 weeks plus would be even better.

SocalDoug,

Not sure if that was a reply to my comment, i was talking about once you receive the beans before use.

 

[toddo97]

I used extract once it was like a oil slick floating atop the stout and killed the head retention, thats why i bought the beans from Amazon, quick tip if you buy beans store them inside a ziploc, put that into another ziploc and that inside another ziploc, holds all the flavour in for months and months

Did you use pure vanilla extract or imitation when that happened? I picked up a couple of oz of pure extract last night, but I might try a tincture with the other 2-3 beans I have left from when I bought those a few months ago (they've been in a zip lock bag)

 

[toddo97]

I chop my beans into little pieces and put my tincture on a stir plate for a day or so

It's pretty potent.

This sounds like a great way to speed up the process!

 

[OG-wan Kenobi]

I chop my beans into little pieces and put my tincture on a stir plate for a day or so

It's pretty potent.

I never thought of using the stir plate I just let mine soak in vodka in a small Tupperware after splitting them down the middle with a razor. I bet it's a lot quicker

 

[SoCal-Doug]

Hmmm. Stir plate. What an excellent idea!

 

[redarmy990]

Did you use pure vanilla extract or imitation when that happened? I picked up a couple of oz of pure extract last night, but I might try a tincture with the other 2-3 beans I have left from when I bought those a few months ago (they've been in a zip lock bag)

It was in a kit i bought, i am not sure but i think it would have been extract

 

[sakeyfour]

I put several split and scrapped beans in Vodka, let soak for a few week minimum. Add the extract to recipe until you reach desired flavor by mixing and tasting until you like it. Vanilla flavor does not dissipate like hops does.

 

[verboten]

I bought a pound of beans a long time ago. I have multiple jars stuffed full of beans and vodka that get shaken every once in a while. And when one gets low, throw some more vodka in. I use 4tbsp of this in my stout for 5 gallons.

 

[Soulshine2]

I'm getting ready to make a Xocoveza beer soon and am looking at trying vanilla extract rather than beans since I don't feel like taking out a second mortgage for those. What type of extract should be used--pure is considerably more expensive, but will the cheaper non-pure stuff be noticeably different tasting? Is a good ratio around 2-3 beans/oz of extract?

best pure and real vanilla extract Ive ever used is Watkins . Never in brewing but in general cooking use.
FYI- if you research what is used to make imitation vanilla flavoring (in ice creams that use it), it is Castoreum...beaver ass secretions...I just wouldn't ...not even on a bet.

 

[toddo97]

best pure and real vanilla extract Ive ever used is Watkins . Never in brewing but in general cooking use.
FYI- if you research what is used to make imitation vanilla flavoring (in ice creams that use it), it is Castoreum...beaver ass secretions...I just wouldn't ...not even on a bet.

good to know.....pure it is!

 

[RPh_Guy]

beaver ass secretions...I just wouldn't ...not even on a bet.

Says the guy drinking yeast poop

 

[Soulshine2]

Says the guy drinking yeast poop

Once my wife and I found out about castoreum being a vanilla flavoring substitute, we question who in their right mind thought to try it the first time...
Who licked a beavers ass and said - "hey, y'alls gonna think I'm crazy here but this tastes like vanilla. "
I'm sure it was a "hold my beer and watch this" type of situation.

 

[RPh_Guy]

What do you think "natural flavoring" is on all the food labels?

I happen to enjoy Cherry Vanilla Dr Pepper and I seriously doubt they're using vanilla beans.

Also, pretty sure most vanilla imitation is artificial. The shock and awe about beavers is funny but not accurate.

 

[Soulshine2]

What do you think "natural flavoring" is on all the food labels?

I happen to enjoy Cherry Vanilla Dr Pepper and I seriously doubt they're using vanilla beans.

Also, pretty sure most vanilla imitation is artificial. The shock and awe about beavers is funny but not accurate.

Where else can you get castoreum?

 

[Soulshine2]

I just googled castoreum as food ingredient..
2261) is a natural product prepared by direct hot-alcoholextraction of castoreum, the dried and macerated castor sac scent glands (and their secretions) from the male or female beaver. It has been used extensively in perfumery and has been added to food as a flavor ingredient for at least 80 years.

 

[Soulshine2]

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/beav...at-you-should-know_n_56f1a037e4b09bf44a9ed259

 

[RPh_Guy]

I'm saying vanilla imitation (vanillin) isn't typically made from castoreum. It's artificial, synthesized in an industrial lab.

There's not some massive beaver farm culling millions of beavers to make ice cream and vanilla lattes.

 

[RPh_Guy]

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/beav...at-you-should-know_n_56f1a037e4b09bf44a9ed259

Read before you post
"These days, castoreum is primarily used for fragrances, not foods. It's too expensive and cumbersome (and gross) a process to extract. A little less than 300 pounds is produced every year, which is stretched thin throughout the market. Because it's considered safe, the FDA doesn't require companies to specifically say they're using castoreum. They can just say "natural flavoring." But the chances castoreum is in your food are slim to none."

 

[Soulshine2]

the FDA considers it safe...do you see all the drugs out that the FDA approves??? the side effects are worse than the original ailment.

 

[RPh_Guy]

Dude ...