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Type of Pipe for Hot Wort Transport

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Beerdrop

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Hi
Looking for advice as to what type of piping/tubing anyone could recommend to transport hot wort from my boiling kettle to my fermentor in the basement. I currently do a full wort boil in the kitchen with a 10 gal kettel and carry the 5+ gal hot kettle down into the basement where I use a plate chiller attached to my utility sink. I'd like to run either high temp tubing, copper, pvc, etc. to connect my 1/2" barbed outlet on the kettle to the plate chiller - figure 30-40 feet total. Would I need a pump also? With this, I could eventually heat the wort in the 'well vented' garage and a highout propane heater and do the same thing.

Any thoughts are appreciated

Bob
 

Displaced MassHole

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Any reason you'd want to go with mcmaster-carr on this one? Looks like the same stuff from B3 and AHS but costs 1.21 more per foot.
 

conpewter

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I'd go with the silicone tubing as well. You could also use copper tubing or stainless if it could be permanent. There are other food grade high temp tubing choices but those are more expensive than silicone.
 
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If this is a permanent situation in the house, just plum it in with copper for the majority of the run with a ball valve and hardware on each end to connect with Boil kettle and Plate Chiller.
 

Bjornbrewer

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I currently do a full wort boil in the kitchen with a 10 gal kettel and carry the 5+ gal hot kettle down into the basement where I use a plate chiller attached to my utility sink.
Is it possible to run the plate chiller off the kitchen sink? Then you only have to carry 5+ gal of cooled wort into the basement. Try a rubber sink/hose adapter thingy (sorry for the lack of terminalogy...to tired to think that one up.)
 

TwoHeadsBrewing

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If this was going to be a permanent setup, I'd run hard copper line most of the way. Then buy a few feet of the silicone stuff for each end. $2.10/ft. is going add up really quick, but 1/2" copper tubing is CHEAP. Buy a couple 10' sections, some couplers, and 1/2" barbed ends and you'll be set.
 

slimer

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Sanitizing that would suck. I mean, all you have to do is pour it down the pipe/tubing, but just some food for thought.
 

truckmann

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You could also use PEX tubing. It is only rated to 200 deg F, but I use a short piece of it to attach my brew kettle to my plate chiller and it works great. As long as you don't pump it at over 80 psi the pipe will handle the temperature just fine. It runs about $13 for a 50' roll of 1/2" around here or you can get 10' lengths for about $3 each.
 

Dadrick

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I would go copper. Sanitizing is easy since it is the boiling wort.
The problem as I see it; is that after the 30-40' the wort would no longer be boiling, the lower parts of the pipe would not be properly sanitized. Even the upper parts would not be in the initial stages, until a quantity of boiling liquid had passed through.

Any permanently placed piping would need some sort of CIP system. The sugary wort would dry and be a breeding ground for infection. So this would defeat the use of gravity to transport liquids up and down the steps. You would either need to install a pump to cycle cleaning and sanitizing solutions, catch them at the bottom and haul them back up, create them in the kitchen and dispose of them in the basement (a waste of good sanitizing solution).

FWIW
Rick
 

illin8

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what about just running hot water/oxiclean mix through the line a bit after using to transport the beer, after a bit of recirculation close the ball valve at the end of the line leaving the oxiclean solution in the line. A day later, drain and refill the line with star san solution closing the bottom valve keeping the solution in the line until next use...when you brew next, just run some 'fresh' starsan solution through before you brew.

Would this work?
 
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what just running hot water/oxiclean mix through the line a bit after using to transport the beer, after a bit of recirculation close the ball valve at the end of the line leaving the oxiclean solution in the line. A day later, drain and refill the line with star san solution closing the bottom valve keeping the solution in the line until next use...when you brew next, just run some 'fresh' starsan solution through before you brew.

Would this work?
This is what I would think as well but no need to refresh the starsan. I don't how long term storage of starsan in copper would effect it though.
 

JVD_X

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what about just running hot water/oxiclean mix through the line a bit after using to transport the beer, after a bit of recirculation close the ball valve at the end of the line leaving the oxiclean solution in the line. A day later, drain and refill the line with star san solution closing the bottom valve keeping the solution in the line until next use...when you brew next, just run some 'fresh' starsan solution through before you brew.

Would this work?
That would work BUT you need to rinse the oxyclean with hot water first... starsan will not work in the presence of oxyclean.

In all likelihood, if you clean it right away you could probably get away with just running boiling water through it. Close off the end and pump boiling water into it. Then just drain it until you want to use it next. Right before you use it repeat with star san....stop the end up and soak the line in Starsan.
 

PhlyanPan

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Not to be a dick...but aren't we trying to engineer an elaborate solution to a simple problem?

Get a burner in your basement. Put it near a window with a decent fan in it for ventilation and maybe even a makeshift hood of some sort. That's what I plan on doing once I get a utility sink down there.
 
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Beerdrop

Beerdrop

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Is it possible to run the plate chiller off the kitchen sink? Then you only have to carry 5+ gal of cooled wort into the basement. Try a rubber sink/hose adapter thingy (sorry for the lack of terminalogy...to tired to think that one up.)
No I can't - my kitchen sink has one of those spray head faucets. I could keep removing the faucet head, but it's kind of flimsy and i've already gone through 2. Thats why I'm looking for something permanent. Also, if I ultimately shift operations into the garage and/or get my dream SS 14+ gal fermentor, I'd like to know how pumps and or gravity will work instead of me.
:)
 
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Beerdrop

Beerdrop

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Not to be a dick...but aren't we trying to engineer an elaborate solution to a simple problem?

Get a burner in your basement. Put it near a window with a decent fan in it for ventilation and maybe even a makeshift hood of some sort. That's what I plan on doing once I get a utility sink down there.
Can't set up the burner downstairs - it's finished and in the laundry room where the wife would have a cow. And isn't engineering an elaborate solution what it's all about?
 

Bjornbrewer

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No I can't - my kitchen sink has one of those spray head faucets. I could keep removing the faucet head, but it's kind of flimsy and i've already gone through 2. Thats why I'm looking for something permanent. Also, if I ultimately shift operations into the garage and/or get my dream SS 14+ gal fermentor, I'd like to know how pumps and or gravity will work instead of me.
:)
gotcha...I have the same type. real PITA to keep taking apart. I think the copper tubing and a circulating system would be the best way.
 

BrewBeemer

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Why not get a supply shut off that has a "Tee Off" like they use for the hot water shut off valve that normaly feeds the dish washer? Add one of them to your cold water side wall stub with a short copper compression fitting stub that has an adapter to your liking instead of using your portable sprayer. I would add one to the cold as well the hot copper or threaded stub under the sink even if it means stacking two valves on the hot unless you can get a valve with two compression stubs, one for the dishwasher the other with a short adapter fitting like the cold side.
 

TwoHeadsBrewing

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You know, a friend of mine has this basement and also uses a CFC. We were joking about unrolling his CFC and mounting it to the wall with some pipe hangers. Then, he wouldn't have to carry full carboys down the stairs and it would cool and rack hot wort in the same motion. With a laundry room downstairs, you could connect the cold water in there and have it come out in the sink upstairs. And cleaning/sanitizing will not be a problem.

1. For the first use, just run some hot water through to get all the soldering junk out. You could run this water into the drain for your washing machine.
2. Put a ball valve on the output of your counter flow chiller, and turn it to the off position.
3. Fill the entire copper tubing with StarSan at the beginning of your brew day.
4. Drain right before cooling/racking
5. Cool/rack the wort
6. Boil 1 gallon of water
7. Turn off the cooling water and flush the copper tubing with the boiling water.

That should keep the chiller clean and free of trub and sugars from the wort. For next brew day, all you need to do is fill it up with sanitizer before you chill.
 

PhlyanPan

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Can't set up the burner downstairs - it's finished and in the laundry room where the wife would have a cow. And isn't engineering an elaborate solution what it's all about?
Fair enough....what about putting a sink in the garage then?

Sure, it's fun to engineer elaborate solutions. But I find that so often they're not the best ones.

If you're really dead set on transferring boiling hot wort through your walls and whatnot, you're probably going to be best off with copper. And probably a march pump. And definitely you'd need to clean it thoroughly after use and sanitize it thoroughly before use.
 

conpewter

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You know, a friend of mine has this basement and also uses a CFC. We were joking about unrolling his CFC and mounting it to the wall with some pipe hangers. Then, he wouldn't have to carry full carboys down the stairs and it would cool and rack hot wort in the same motion. With a laundry room downstairs, you could connect the cold water in there and have it come out in the sink upstairs. And cleaning/sanitizing will not be a problem.

1. For the first use, just run some hot water through to get all the soldering junk out. You could run this water into the drain for your washing machine.
2. Put a ball valve on the output of your counter flow chiller, and turn it to the off position.
3. Fill the entire copper tubing with StarSan at the beginning of your brew day.
4. Drain right before cooling/racking
5. Cool/rack the wort
6. Boil 1 gallon of water
7. Turn off the cooling water and flush the copper tubing with the boiling water.

That should keep the chiller clean and free of trub and sugars from the wort. For next brew day, all you need to do is fill it up with sanitizer before you chill.
I used to do something similar. I had the CFC coiled up and had LLDPE tubing running inside the house and to the basement. I had the kettle on the burner, CFC on the ground connected to the tubing going to the basement. I'd push star-san with my auto-siphon up through the tubing and through the CFC then turn off the valve in the basement. Let that sit in there for the whole brew session. When starting to cool I'd open the kettle valve and then go downstairs and open that valve, let the sanitizer run into a bucket until wort started to run, then that would go into the fermenter.

I now use a pump to recirculate boiling wort through my CFC, this is all with the new electric brew-rig in the basement.
 

jpc

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No I can't - my kitchen sink has one of those spray head faucets. I could keep removing the faucet head, but it's kind of flimsy and i've already gone through 2. Thats why I'm looking for something permanent. Also, if I ultimately shift operations into the garage and/or get my dream SS 14+ gal fermentor, I'd like to know how pumps and or gravity will work instead of me.
:)
Yes, you can... or, at least, I can. I use a sump pump in the sink to pump the water through the chiller. The added benefit is that I can dump ice in the sink to get the temperature down a bit lower than the tap temperature.

It's a $70 solution (or thereabouts)...
 
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Beerdrop

Beerdrop

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Thanks all for the advice.

I'm going to go with copper as it's permanent and put a 1/2" barbed fitting at either end to run hoses as needed. Good info also on the santizing techniques. I appreciate the input :mug:

Thanks again
Bob
 
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