Two recipes for critique

[Brewin_Bob]

I've come up with 2 recipes using BeerSmith, a cream ale and a brown ale. I'd like to get some input from some of the veteran brewers, what they think or if anything should be changed. Both of these recipes are 5 gallon batches with a 2 gallon boil and I'm planning to brew the brown ale on 2-29-08. Thanks for any input.


Cream Ale: (Is there anything I can reference to get a sense of how it should taste?)
5 lbs. Extra Light Dry Extract
1/4 lb. Crystal Malt 20L - steep for 30 minutes at 155-160 degrees
1/2 lb. dextrose
1 1/2 oz. East Kent Goldings - 60 minutes
3/4 oz. Tettnanger - 15 minutes
1/4 oz. Tettnanger - "flameout" (using an electric stove :cross
Wyeast American Ale yeast (1272)

estimated O.G. - 1.049
estimated S.G. - 1.012
estimated color - 3.9
estimated bitterness - 16.7 IBU


Brown Ale:
5 lbs. Dark Dry Extract
1/2 lb. Biscuit Malt
1/2 lb. Honey Malt
1/2 lb. Victory Malt
1/4 lb. Roasted Barley
1/4 lb. Dark Brown Sugar
2 oz. East Kent Goldings - 60 minutes
1/2 oz. Saaz - 15 minutes
1/2 oz. Saaz - "flameout"
Wyeast Irish Ale yeast (1084)

estimated O.G. - 1.048
estimated S.G. - 1.012
estimated color - 19.5
estimated bitterness - 20.9 IBU


Thanks again.

 

[Brewin_Bob]

Ok, should I have put this in the beginner's subforum?

 

[Yooper]

No, this is the right place!

I'm not too sure on the recipes (I'm not very good at extract recipes) but I like the first one at first glance. Maybe like a Genny Cream ale? I'm thinking a light tasting light bodied beer.

The second one looks a little unusual to me- victory malt and biscuit malt together don't really make a lot of sense to me- too similar. And it seems like a bit much in there, added to roasted barley. the honey malt might make it pretty sweet. You got more of a stout/porter thing than a brown ale. And I'd lose the brown sugar.

Biscuit malt, honey malt, and victory malt must be mashed- are you planning on doing that in a grain bag?

I'm not a roasted barley fan, anyway, so I'm probably not the one to ask. Are you going for a specific clone, or a specific taste that I'm just missing?

 

[Brewin_Bob]

Thanks for replying!

I read some of the brown ale and nut brown ale recipes but they were all grain. I was trying to convert to extract with grain steeping. I was planning to steep all of the grains in a grain sack for 30-45 minutes at 155°-160°F.

I also bought some St. Arnold's Brown Ale to get a sense of what the style tastes like.

I chose biscuit malt for the "biscuit like flavor and aroma" and the victory malt to try to get a "nuttier" flavor and aroma. After rereading malt resources, I think I'll use the victory malt instead of both. I chose the honey malt to make it a little sweet, but I guess 1/2 lb. is too much. Should I sweeten with lactose instead? I read it won't ferment. Or Candi Sugar (sp.?) to sweeten and improve head retention?

Maybe I should just do Cheesefood's Caramel Cream Ale instead. But isn't it too dark in reference to what a cream ale should be?

Thanks again for your help.

 

[Revvy]

Actually Victory can be steeped. (It's in BYO's Clone for Bells Best Brown ALe)

I googled to double check.

Flavor: Imparts a “toasty” character to beers.

Nutty taste
Biscuity
Baking Bread
Color: 25 - 28 Lovibond. Colors ranged from slight red to amber to orange highlights depending on how much you use.

Body: Improves body and head retention.

Use: The malt has no diastatic power so you can use it as a steeping grain. Because of the flavor it imparts, Nut brown ales are a good candidate for this malt. It would be a good addition to dark beers, especially a porter. If you wanted to make an American Brown Ale and stay on theme, Victory Malt would be a good addition. Probably no more than 20% of your grain bill.

 

[Brewin_Bob]

Also, per BeerSmith, roasted barley in small amounts add a nutty flavor. Do I have too much?

 

[Brewin_Bob]

Actually Victory can be steeped. (It's in BYO's Clone for Bells Best Brown ALe)

I googled to double check.

Cool! Thanks! I'm sure that I'd like the taste of a nut brown ale, but I haven't found one in stores yet. Oh well, gotta keep looking

 

[Yooper]

Thanks, Revvy! He's right- I was wrong about victory malt. I've always read that it must be mashed, and that's what it says in John Palmer's book. But according Revvy's source, you can steep it. Sorry about that.

You do have alot going on in that beer, so you may want to consider changing it to a simpler recipe and working from there. If it were me, I'd ditch the roasted barley, unless you really want that roastiness, and use the victory and maybe 4 ounces of chocolate malt for color and flavor, and some crystal 40 if you want some sweetness. Sometimes simpler is better.

I don't really know about the quanities of honey malt (I've never used it) so I can't answer this. I have heard it imparts a honey flavor to the finished beer. I would say that don't use lactose until bottling, if you chose to use it. It is very sweet and unfermentable, so that you can sweeten up your brew later if you want. But if you use it right away, you can't take it out!
Candi sugar won't sweeten your beer, it'll ferment. It will boost the ABV, though, and it seems like you have enough fermentables already.

As for the CCA, it's not a "cream ale" in the actual style of a the type of beer. I think he called it CCA because it has milk sugar (lactose) in it, for a creamier type of beer. Many people who like sweeter beers seem to love it, so it might be worth a try for you, especially since you're attempting to get some sweetness in this brown ale. You may find you like it and enjoy it! (I personally think it takes like cream soda pop with beer added, but I really dislike sweet beers and wines.)

 

[Revvy]

Since youper mentioned Chocolalte malt, and the fact that I'm tinkering with Brown Ale, I thought I'd share what I'm considering brewing up this weeked...It's BYO's Bell's Best Brown Clone, swapping DME for the lme in the recipe.

Old Bog Road Brown Ale

6# Light DME
14 ounces Victory Malt
14 ounces Crystal 60L
14 ounces briess Special Roast
4 ounces Chocolate Malt

1 ounce Cascade @ 60
1/4 ounce Nugget @ 60
1/4 ounces Fuggles @ 20
1/2 ounce Fuggles at 5 min

(Pitched onto Safale Us-56 yeastcake from previous batch of Amber Ale)

Est. OG (1.062-1.073)
Est. Fg (1.016-1.020)
Est. IBU (31.7)

I also formulated one that replaces the Victory with the same amount of Biscuit, and the Special Roast with the same amount of Special B, and cutting the chocolate in half, but on beercalculus it came out looking darker than I wanted. More like a porter than a brown ale...

Yooper, while you're here, what do you think?

 

[Ooompa Loompa]

FWIW I've steeped honey malt in 3 different recipes and have had great results with it. Is it supposed to be mashed? Maybe, but based on the results I've had (and I'm pretty sure others have had as well) I will definately continue to utilize it as a steeping grain.

 

[mrkristofo]

Since youper mentioned Chocolalte malt, and the fact that I'm tinkering with Brown Ale, I thought I'd share what I'm considering brewing up this weeked...It's BYO's Bell's Best Brown Clone, swapping DME for the lme in the recipe.

Old Bog Road Brown Ale

6# Light DME
14 ounces Victory Malt
14 ounces Crystal 60L
14 ounces briess Special Roast
4 ounces Chocolate Malt

1 ounce Cascade @ 60
1/4 ounce Nugget @ 60
1/4 ounces Fuggles @ 20
1/2 ounce Fuggles at 5 min

(Pitched onto Safale Us-56 yeastcake from previous batch of Amber Ale)

Est. OG (1.062-1.073)
Est. Fg (1.016-1.020)
Est. IBU (31.7)

I also formulated one that replaces the Victory with the same amount of Biscuit, and the Special Roast with the same amount of Special B, and cutting the chocolate in half, but on beercalculus it came out looking darker than I wanted. More like a porter than a brown ale...

Yooper, while you're here, what do you think?

That looks delicious. I'd use something like Hugh Baird Chocolate or Pale chocolate, personally....and special B...damn. I might have to brew that.

 

[Brewin_Bob]

Been playing with BeerSmith (instead of working, heh) and I've come up with this to simplify the Brown Ale recipe. How's this? Do these hops blend well with the other ingredients? Thanks, all of you, for your help.

5 gal batch, 2 gal boil
3 lbs. Light DME
1 lb. Extra Light DME
1 lb. Wheat DME
1 lb. Victory Malt (steeped at 155°-160°F)
1/2 lb. Chocolate Malt (steeped at 155°-160°F)
1/2 lb. Cara-Pils/Dextrine (steeped at 155°-160°F)
1 oz. Admiral (appx. 15%) @ 45 minutes
1/2 oz. Challenger (appx. 7.5%) @ 15 minutes
1/2 oz. Challenger (appx. 7.5%) @ "flameout"

edit:
Added XLite DME because OG was too low per BeerSmith
Added 1/2 lb. Cara-Pils (per mrkristofo's suggestion, Thanks!)
est. OG is now 1.046
est. FG is now 1.012
est. color is 21 (style color should be 15 - 22)
est. bitterness is 30.3 (style bitterness should be 25 - 60)

 

[mrkristofo]

I'd throw in 1/2lb of carapils for head retention. Challengers will go well with that...I tend to like their aroma quite a bit. I'm not sure what the IBU's on that are going to come out to be, but intuitively it seems a tad on the high side. I've never used admirals myself, so I can't comment on them.

 

[Revvy]

That looks delicious. I'd use something like Hugh Baird Chocolate or Pale chocolate, personally....and special B...damn. I might have to brew that.

I've never heard of either of those grains...and can't find them on beer calculus either....You got me curious about pale chocolate....

My goal is a brown, that is richer and darker than an amber, yet not as full bodied/dark as a porter or stout.. Somewhere right in the middle...Yet really complex...

I'm really torn between the two recipes...