Two packs of Safale US-05 vs. Rehydrating

[dsmithpdx]

Hi all,

I've spent hours trudging through the threads on rehydrating dry yeast vs. not rehydrating, and I'm still undecided. So here is my question:

Tomorrow I am brewing a beer which I expect to have an OG of 1.070. I have seen many threads that say just sprinkling the dry yeast (Safale US-05 in this case) on the foam after aerating is fine for "normal gravity" beers. Does 1.070 qualify as "normal gravity?" My hunch is that it's a bit higher than "normal." So, what if I just sprinkle TWO packets of yeast on the foam instead of rehydrating?

It's not that I'm against rehydrating, but I have some concerns about the timing of the whole thing (not really sure when I should start the rehydration) and the process in general, so I'd much rather just rip the packs open and sprinkle it on there if possible.

Thanks!

Doug

 

[phatuna]

Hi Doug, this is the best calculator for figuring out how much yeast to use: http://www.mrmalty.com/calc/calc.html

for your OG, Mr. malty sais to use about 1.2 packets (11.5 gram dry yeast packets).

I've never re-hydrated so I've got nothing to add there, other than all of my beer has turned out great and I've always just sprinkled it on top of the aerated wort...

 

[scottland]

Start rehydrating 30min before you plan on pitching. It really is painfully easy.

Just rehydrated and pitch a single packet, you'll be fine

 

[phatuna]

all of my beer has turned out great and I've always just sprinkled it on top of the aerated wort...

this is HIGHLY subjective :cross:

 

[jjones17]

Hi all,

I've spent hours trudging through the threads on rehydrating dry yeast vs. not rehydrating, and I'm still undecided. So here is my question:

Tomorrow I am brewing a beer which I expect to have an OG of 1.070. I have seen many threads that say just sprinkling the dry yeast (Safale US-05 in this case) on the foam after aerating is fine for "normal gravity" beers. Does 1.070 qualify as "normal gravity?" My hunch is that it's a bit higher than "normal." So, what if I just sprinkle TWO packets of yeast on the foam instead of rehydrating?

It's not that I'm against rehydrating, but I have some concerns about the timing of the whole thing (not really sure when I should start the rehydration) and the process in general, so I'd much rather just rip the packs open and sprinkle it on there if possible.

Thanks!

Doug

Doug, I rehydrate all the time now as I get more consistent fermentation that way. Its easy man.

Cool your beer, put in fermenter as usual. Rehydrate as per instructions. Use a timer. Once rehydration is complete, dump on wort, replace airlock. Done. When I do this I usually see fermentation start within 3-6 hours.

 

[ChshreCat]

Dumping your yeast into a cup of water while you're boiling your wort isn't all that hard to do. I sprinkled on the wort when I started then read about rehydrating and started doing that. Can't really say it's made much of a difference, but if something so easy gives my yeast a better chance at a good start, why not?

 

[Bob]

For the life of me I can't figure out why there's a debate on this issue.

First, it's so painfully easy to rehydrate that there really is no excuse for not doing it. It requires no special equipment, and it can be done while awaiting the completion of other steps in the brewing process.

Second, both major manufacturers of dried yeast - Fermentis (SafAle) and Danstar - specify rehydration before pitching.

To me, that makes the whole thing a no-brainer. Just freakin' do it. Must you do it? Nope. But there's really no excuse. You don't have to change your socks, either.

Don't believe me, read the manufacturers' own info.

http://www.fermentis.com/FO/pdf/Tips-Tricks.pdf
http://www.danstaryeast.com/frequently-asked-questions
http://www.danstaryeast.com/library/rehydration-and-usage-tips-ale-yeast

Cheers,

Bob

 

[ChshreCat]

For the life of me I can't figure out why there's a debate on this issue.

There's people who question hydrometer use and this surprises you?

 

[bob1852]

I agree with ya Bob, but I tend to be a "directions" type of guy and at least US-05 says to sprinkle into wort.

If I do that, I have one less thing to clean up later

 

[DrinkinSurfer]

Maybe you can end the debate by splitting the batch. In one half just sprinkle a pack of yeast. In the other add the rehydrated yeast. Then tell us which starts first and turns out better and any difference in FG. That way the next time someone needs advice you can simply be the authority in the matter.

 

[bob1852]

Maybe you can end the debate by splitting the batch. In one half just sprinkle a pack of yeast. In the other add the rehydrated yeast. Then tell us which starts first and turns out better and any difference in FG. That way the next time someone needs advice you can simply be the authority in the matter.

I'm pretty sure Bobby_M did this - also, he included aerated wort v. non-aerated wort - I'll try and find it...

Off to the YouTubez....

EDIT: nevermind, it was just aerated wort v. non-aerated wort...

And besides, when do homebrewers let facts get in the way of their opinions?

 

[Bob]

@Chshr: OOOOOOOoooh, yeah. Old propaganda takes forever to die.

@AZ IPA: There's a "but" - if you look at the first link I posted - direct from Fermentis - it says for best results to rehydrate.

Aren't we after "best results"? I am. I know you are, too. I've seen your posts.

This is one of those cases where I don't care what the packets say. The tins of pre-hopped malt extract say to make up the rest of the gravity by adding sugar. But we never advise new brewers to do that, do we? We advise to do what the tinned-kit manufacturers advise on their websites: Make up the bulk with malt extract (check the Muntons site). Can you make beer using the tin's instructions? Yes. Can you make better beer using the manufacturer's recommendations? Without question.

I suppose it could be argued that Muntons is making an argument to sell more product. While true, it's irrelevant to the rehydration argument, because neither Fermentis nor Danstar are selling another product when they tell you to rehydrate. They're telling you how to properly use their product.

You can use a screwdriver as a chisel, too. But that don't make it right.

Bob

 

[bob1852]

You can use a screwdriver as a chisel, too. But that don't make it right.

True, but it can work!

I know what you're saying though - if I was truely a "direction follower," I wouldn't make a starter with liquid yeast since the packs pretty much say "it'll work to pitch directly."

Okay, I'll start hydrating; heck, I've got some time to kill once I hook up the CFC.

Forgive me Bob, for I have sinned. I made an IPA last night and just sprinkled the US-05.

Hail Safale, full of yeast. The cells are with thee, blessed art thou among water, and blessed are the fruits resulting during rehydration. Holy yeast, mother of brewing, pray for us sprinklers, now and at the hour of pitching. Amen.

 

[Bob]

Heh.

It's no sin. Hell, there's times I sprinkle, too!

I'm coming more from the place that's mystified there's even a debate about this. But then there's debate over the stupidest things...as has been pointed out.

Cheers,

Bob

 

[ChshreCat]

Hell, there's times I sprinkle, too!

Same here. Really makes the wife angry when she goes to clean the bathroom.

 

[Bob]

 

[rexbanner]

I would go with two packets for a beer that big, or a starter. One pack of dry yeast is fine for beers under 1.054 OG, but if you go over that, you should use a starter or extra yeast.

 

[dsmithpdx]

Well, I added a bit too much top off water and ended up at 1.061. I did rehydrate the yeast, but it's now been 24 hours and there's no airlock activity. :-( If it doesn't take off b tomorrow evening, I'm going to add another packet of yeast.

 

[Bob]

Doug,

Don't go by the airlock!

(That should really be stickied in great big, flashy letters somewhere obvious.)

The airlock is not a scientific instrument. There might be a mis-fitted seal or any number of things.

Are you fermenting in a bucket or carboy? If you're in a carboy, look for krauesen. If you're in a bucket, remove the airlock and peer through the hole looking for krauesen. I bet there's krauesen, and if there's krauesen, there's fermentation. If there's fermentation, there's nothing to worry about. Have a beer.

Cheers,

Bob

 

[dsmithpdx]

Bob,

I'm fermenting in a stainless conical. The thing seals pretty well, so typically the airlock is a pretty reliable method of detecting fermentation activity for me. We'll see!

Doug

 

[user 53515]

+1 on the rehydration. It significantly reduces fermentation lag time. 30 minutes into my boil, I follow these directions below, except I don't proof. I just rehydrate.

My smoked porter took off within an hour of pitching with the rehydrated yeast. My blonde ale took a couple hours becuase I just sprinkled (a.k.a no rehydration).

http://www.howtobrew.com/section1/chapter6-5.html

 

[ChshreCat]

I take it easy. Spray a coffee cup with starsan, drain it out, fill it halfway with bottled water and add yeast. When pitching time comes, I just dump it in and rinse it with some more bottle water into the fermenter and call it good. Highly scientific.

 

[Bob]

I'm fermenting in a stainless conical. The thing seals pretty well, so typically the airlock is a pretty reliable method of detecting fermentation activity for me. We'll see!

Take a hydrometer reading tomorrow. See if there's movement. I bet it'll have dropped a degree or two, and the yeast is just slow.

Cheers,

Bob

 

[dsmithpdx]

Well Bob, sure enough, it was fermenting like crazy! I just had to tighten down the lid on the fermenter a bit more, and then there was ton of airlock activity!

Thanks again for all the help.

Doug

 

[Bob]

Ha! I KNEW it!

Seriously, I'm glad everything is on track.

Bob

 

[bad coffee]

I rehydrate when I start my chill. I usually rinse out the souffle cup I use with a bit of wort when I'm done. Gets all the yeast out of the bowl.

B

 

[Revvy]

I agree with ya Bob, but I tend to be a "directions" type of guy and at least US-05 says to sprinkle into wort.

If I do that, I have one less thing to clean up later

I agree. That's what I've been doing for years, since I read THAT on the fermentis website in their "tips and tricks" section years ago and I've been doing it ever since. I sprinkle on the surface of the fermenter seal up my fermenter, let it sit on the surface for 15-30 minutes while I begin clean up and then I move it into my brew closet. And since 90% of what I brew is with safale 05, and I get great scores and comments on beers, I'm not going to stop doing it that way. Some will, of course, argue differently, but I maintain that that is "rehydrating with wort" only not is a separate container. If you can rehydrate it in a small container of "sterile wort" then you can do it in a 5 gallon container of wort as well.

 

[Bob]

It's weird how they say different things in different places. Huh.

Anyway.

Bob

 

[Revvy]

It's weird how they say different things in different places. Huh.

Anyway.

Bob

And that's why I think the argument is silly because the differences in doing it an not are probably insignificant, at least on the homebrew scale.

But this is what it says in the current version of the tips.

Water or Wort?
Fermentis yeast can be rehydrated with sterile water or sterile wort.
Whatever media is chosen it is compulsory to assure its sterility.
After the wort has been boiled for at least 15 minutes collect the volume
required for rehydration and leave to cool to the required temperature.
Rehydrate the yeast for 30 minutes.

I'm just not doing it in a smaller container.

And even on this pdf. It says sprinkling http://www.fermentis.com/FO/pdf/HB/EN/Safale_US-05_HB.pdf

Re-hydrate the dry yeast into yeast cream in a stirred vessel prior to pitching. Sprinkle the dry yeast in 10 times its own weight of sterile water or wort at 27C ± 3C (80F ± 6F). Once the expected weight of dry yeast is reconstituted into cream by this method (this takes about 15 to 30 minutes), maintain a gentle stirring for another 30 minutes. Then pitch the resultant cream into the fermentation vessel.
Alternatively, pitch dry yeast directly in the fermentation vessel providing the temperature of the wort is above 20C (68F). Progressively sprinkle the dry yeast into the wort ensuring the yeast covers all the surface of wort available in order to avoid clumps. Leave for 30 minutes and then mix the wort e.g. using aeration.

That's why it's a silly argument nowadays....(like most of them)

I think the yeast can figure out what to do on it's own.

 

[remilard]

True, but it can work!

I know what you're saying though - if I was truely a "direction follower," I wouldn't make a starter with liquid yeast since the packs pretty much say "it'll work to pitch directly."

They say 1 packet for anything up to 1.060 or something like that. Yet magically if a commercial brewer buys a pitch of yeast from White Labs or Wyeast they will sell them a different amount for 1.040 and 1.060. They are just trying to prevent consumers from assuming dried yeast is easier to use.

 

[remilard]

It's weird how they say different things in different places. Huh.

Anyway.

Bob

Different things to commercial brewers and home brewers specifically. With commercial brewers being advised on best practices and home brewers being advised on easy practices (as the slightest hint of work will send them running to the competition).

 

[scottland]

The Mr. Malty calculator shows that one package of dry yeast is the correct pitch rate (within the degree of accuracy the home brewer will get) for 1.040 to 1.060

That's the range that 80% of the beers I brew fall under. So i simply re-hydrate and pitch. I supposed if I was brewing a smaller beer 1.040 or so, I would just sprinkle, but re-hydrating is such a quick task. They say simply sprinkling on the wort results in less viable or less active cells, but pitching a pack of dry yeast into a 1.040 is essentially over-pitching, so i guess why not sprinkle.

 

[HenryKDuff]

There is something that has always bugged me about rehydrating the dry yeast - how the yeast piles up. I buy Revvy's notion of sprinkling on the wort foam being the same as hydrating in a separate container. But I ferment in Better Bottles and you can only sprinkle on the small area directly under the opening. The yeast piles up and it takes quite a while for it all to get into the wort (I'm hesitant to swirl/aerate it at this point because yeast has gotten stuck on the BB wall above the wort line or in the neck of the BB). I've done it both ways (leave alone & aerate the pile) and always end up with good beer, but I'd like to know what the best practice is, especially for higher gravity beers.

The same thing tends to happen when rehydrating in a separate container (I usually use a Pyrex measuring cup). Am I doing it wrong? Or am I worrying about nothing and need to RDWHAHB? Is it fine to just let the pile get rehydrated at its own pace?

 

[graduate]

I have always rehydrated in a glass of warm water before pitching. Has always worked and I think it gets the yeast in suspension faster than just sprinkling on top. Both work though.
Would it pay to make a starter with dry yeast if the OG is higher than 1.060 instead of just pitching another packet?

 

[crombie]

I have always rehydrated in a glass of warm water before pitching. Has always worked and I think it gets the yeast in suspension faster than just sprinkling on top. Both work though.
Would it pay to make a starter with dry yeast if the OG is higher than 1.060 instead of just pitching another packet?

Pretty sure that you'll reduce the cell count with a starter. (one source here, but i'm fairly sure safale's site says that as well)

 

[forcabrew]

i know its been a few weeks for this thread but i am looking into getting back into using dry yeasts. i have been using smack packs for my last several brews which i just smack a few hours before i need to pitch, then pitch and i have never had a problem and i have never made a starter. now from what i have been reading its seems that if your making a basic ale there is no reason to spend the extra money on a smack pack. my question is i was thinking of brewing yoopers dead guy clone in the next few weeks but the estimated og is 1066. now my question is if i rehydrate would i need more than one package of us-05 or notty? mrmalty.com i think reccomends to use 1.3 packages. if i use a package and a half can i save the other half or am i begging for an infection

 

[Greyhound]

In addition to your infection concerns, I don't think your yeast is going to remain viable for very long in an open packet. I really don't know, but I wouldn't take the risks to save, what, $0.75?

 

[midfielder5]

save the opened yeast packet, not to brew with, but as yeast nutrient. dump it in the boil for the last 5 minutes or so (to kill em).