Two Beers, One Yeast, Two Different Fermentations

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blackcows

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One week ago today I brewed two different IPAs, both kits from Northern Brewer. Both had a starting gravity of about 1.065 and both had estimated final gravity of 1.017 according to Beersmith.

I used US05 on both and both sat next to each other in my garage and fermented in the mid 60's. One beer had bubbles rolling throught the airlock all week, I never saw a single bubble through the airlock of the other. I brought them inside today and checked FG and both are just below 1.020...about done.

Why would one have bubbled so vigorously and not the other? One kit was liquid extract and the other dry....would that have made a difference?
 
consider this, are two clouds in the sky alike? No. The same apoplies to fermentation. Every fermentation is different than the other. Even the smallest variations (1 degree F difference for example or more yeast/less yeast to name another) can cause a different reaction.

Just because your extracts yield an OG of roughly the same 1.065, the sugar composition of the liquid extract is totally different than the composition of the dry extract.
 
That's just the wildcard nature of our yeasty friends.

There is nothing "typical" in brewing...every fermentation is different, and should not be used to compare one with another...you can't do that.

No two fermentations are ever exactly the same.

When we are dealing with living creatures, there is a wild card factor in play..Just like with other animals, including humans...No two behave the same.

You can split a batch in half put them in 2 identical carboys, and pitch equal amounts of yeast from the same starter...and have them act completely differently...for some reason on a subatomic level...think about it...yeasties are small...1 degree difference in temp to us, could be a 50 degree difference to them...one fermenter can be a couple degrees warmer because it's closer to a vent all the way across the room and the yeasties take off...

Someone, Grinder I think posted a pic once of 2 carboys touching each other, and one one of the carboys the krausen had formed only on the side that touched the other carboy...probably reacting to the heat of the first fermentation....but it was like symbiotic or something...

With living micro-organisms there is always a wildcard factor in play...and yet the yeast rarely lets us down. So it is best just to rdwhahb and trust that they know to what they are doing. It sounds like you are brewing by a calendar, or instructions and not by what your beer is really doing, the problem is that yeast don't know how to read so they seldom follow their scripts. They dance to their own tune and its seldom 4 x 4 Time.

Don't assume the worst with the yeast, realize that they've been making beer since long before our great great great grandfather copped his first buzz from a 40 of mickey's out back of the highschool, so they are the experts.

Yeasts are like teenagers, swmbos, and humans in general, they have their own individual way of doing things.

And worrying because it's not happening how fast or slow you think it should be is really not worth the energy.

It may not be what you expected it to be but that doesn't mean anything's wrong.
 
Thanks for the replies. Is it common to have fermenations that don't cause a lot of airlock activity? I don't recall having many...or any for that matter.

Mike
 
My current starter doesn't have a krausen ring like the others did in the past. This is my fourth generation with this yeast strain. Saw some bubbles one day then the next nothing. Is it possible I've worn the little guys out with back to back brews? Do I need to stick it in the fridge in between to become dormant or anything?

I appreciate that each fermentation is unique, just concerned about being too apathetic and wearing out my little cost-saving friends.
 
Thanks for the replies. Is it common to have fermenations that don't cause a lot of airlock activity? I don't recall having many...or any for that matter.

Mike

50% of my beers have little or no airlock activity. Airlock activity is not a good indication of anything...

Your airlock bubbling or not bubbling doesn't mean your beer has stalled or not, all it means is that your airlock isn't bubbling.

A beer may ferment perfectly fine without a single blip in the airlock. Or airlocks can start or stop or start and stop again, for a ton of other reasons, like temp changes, getting nudged by the cat or the vacuum cleaner, changes in barometric pressure, but your beer could still be fermenting fine.

Or the co2 is coming out the lid, or the grommet or the stopper. Nothing wrong with that, if co2 is getting out, nothing nasty is getting in.

Airlock activity is irrevelent. Just gravity points on a hydrometer.

The rate or lack of or whether or not it bubbles at all, or if it starts and stops has more relation to the environment the fermenter is in, rather than fermentation itself. All it is is a vent, a valve to let our excess gas, especially co2, nothing else. It's not a fermentation gauge whatsoever.


The most important tool you can use is a hydrometer. It's the only way you will truly know when your beer is ready...airlock bubbles and other things are faulty.

The only way to truly know what is going on in your fermenter is with your hydrometer. Like I said here in my blog, which I encourage you to read, Think evaluation before action you sure as HELL wouldn't want a doctor to start cutting on you unless he used the proper diagnostic instuments like x-rays first, right? You wouldn't want him to just take a look in your eyes briefly and say "I'm cutting into your chest first thing in the morning." You would want them to use the right diagnostic tools before the slice and dice, right? You'd cry malpractice, I would hope, if they didn't say they were sending you for an MRI and other things before going in.

I've never EVER needed to re-pitch, and I've been brewing more than lkely far longer than you have....Take a gravity reading.
 
Yeast is a living organism and should be treated with love and care. I find my fermentations are always spot on if I visit my primary often and compliment on it's looks.
"Have you lost weight ? You look great us-05"

Hugging and laughing with your primary is also a good idea. I've notice us-05 enjoys a good sublime album and likes to join me in the living room to watch Sons Of Anarchy.

My yeast loves me back
 
Yeast is a living organism and should be treated with love and care. I find my fermentations are always spot on if I visit my primary often and compliment on it's looks.
"Have you lost weight ? You look great us-05"

Hugging and laughing with your primary is also a good idea. I've notice us-05 enjoys a good sublime album and likes to join me in the living room to watch Sons Of Anarchy.

My yeast loves me back

Nice! Sometimes I gently tap out funky grooves on my carboys/buckets. I'm also an upright bass player, so sometimes I'll walk some bass lines or play a little bowed bass for them. Or sing to them.
 
Might want to invest in some new bucket lids :)

It's not just in buckets, it's also in carboys, some with with bungs, some with caps, some with s-types some with 3 piece, so much so, and with so many variances that it goes to show, as I've repeated daily that an airlock is an unreliable way to "measure" fermentation.....

Airlocks bubble or they don't for so many reasons-change in ambient temp, getting nudged by the cat or the vacuum cleaner, changes in barometric pressure, a semi going down your street too fast, like this guy, lifting his fermenter up onto a table to bottle......Not to mention if you open and close the fermenter to dry hop or take a grav reading.

It's just as apt to react to changes in the enviroment the fermenter is in, as what's happening inside the fermenter.

We've hashed this out so many times it's not even funny. It's one of those things, it's one thing to have instructions in a book written 30 years ago to talk about counting bubbles, forgetting that many airlocks back then were glass and sat heavy on a grommet, AND there was no instead feedback like we have on here where over 40,000 brewers share their situations, and can say "yeah, but my beer....."

When you have people coming on here every day, with issues like this, you start to see patterns.

A beer may ferment perfectly fine without a single blip in the airlock. Or airlocks can start or stop or start and stop again, for a ton of other reasons, like temp changes, getting nudged by the cat or the vacuum cleaner, changes in barometric pressure, but your beer could still be fermenting fine.


airlocks tell you the WHAT is happening, that co2 is or isn't getting out of the fermenter....but they aren't telling you the WHY. If it's fermenting or not, or off gassing or not. If it's done or not....

I've said it over and over and trolls like to try to get me, or even accuse me of lying (which I don't get why I would lie about something like this) but over the years of LOTS of batches of ALL SIZES and BOTH carboys and buckets, better bottles or glass, carboy caps or bungs, new buckets old buckets, s-types and 3 piece, I get about 50% airlock failure rate (but 100% success rate of fermentation) and it's any number if things, usually simply a non tight seal in the bucket or carboy or grommet....but to me the reason doesn't matter....the point is just trying to glance at an airlock and know what the beer is doing, just is NOT accurate.

My belief is that 1 occurrance is an anamoly, 2 may be a coincidence, BUT 3 or more occurance is an epidemic...and that's the case for folks relying on airlocks all the time, to me if 1 brewer comes on saying his airlock is not bubbling, AND he takes a reading and finds fermentation is going fine, that's an anamoly...

But DAILY on here there are at least 10 threads stating the exact thing...so MAYBE there is something to this idea that airlocks can be faulty. AND if they have the potential to be faulty, then how can we trust them to tell us what's going on?

You can quibble about it all you want, or deal in semantics, but we deal in sheer volume of users on here, and daily we have airlocks not bubbling, or bubbling from out of the blue, and many of them where a gravity reading indicates that fermentation is happening beautifully, or in the case of bubbling, has already ceased.

And yes, in an IDEAL situation (like let's say fermenting in a keg with a tight seal and no leak from around the airlock) the airlock SHOULD bubble 100% of the time (providing there's not too much headspace.) If more co2 is created than can be contained in the spavce of the fermenter, THEN an airlock should bubble....because an airlock is a valve.

But MOST of us don't have IDEAL situations, and rarely is a plastic or glass fermenter airtight- it really isn't supposed to be anyway...SO we aren't in the best situation to have IDEAL 100% accuracy of an airlock...


So that's why it's a good idea NOT to relie on or stress out about what it is or isn't doing. Just realize that airlocks bubble or they don't, they start, they stop, they bubble fast, they bubble slow, and they bubble or don't whether fermentation happens or not.

Like I said, the only accurate thing that will tell you what your beer is or isn't doing, is taking gravity readings. Everything else gives you the potential for a "false positive" reading.
 
If 50% of your airlocks don't bubble, you should really figure out why.

Active fermentation produces a LOT of CO2, no matter what the external factors are. If you ferment a typical 5 gallon batch of beer, and don't have airlock activity what-so-ever during the fermentation process .... you have a leak, somewhere.

A leak is not a bad thing, per se...but it is also not a good thing.
 
If 50% of your airlocks don't bubble, you should really figure out why.

No I shouldn't- it's incedental. Whether it does or doesn't means nothing. Only if the yeast eats the sugar, and pees alcohol, that's all that matter, and they do THAT 100% of the time.

Like I said earlier, the fact that if 1 person has a non bubbling airlock where the beer still is made is enough to prove how unimportant to the overall scheme of things.

The fact that some new brewers have dumped their beer without even checking their gravity, because there airlock didn't bubble, or it stopped is a bigger issue. The fact that some folks worship the airlock like it's a mighty magical fermentation gauge, when every day on here people besides me have airlocks that don't bubble.

An airlock's ONLY purpose it to vent excess co2 out of the fermenter to keep the beer off the ceiling, it's not a gauge of fermentation. It's a valve.
That's why we repeat the mantra that "Only numbers on a hydrometer" matter.
 
No I shouldn't- it's incedental. Whether it does or doesn't means nothing. Only if the yeast eats the sugar, and pees alcohol, that's all that matter, and they do THAT 100% of the time.

C6H12O6 → 2 C2H5OH + 2 CO2

CO2 is not an incidental part of fermentation, it is always produced.

It is the same reason you can reliably bottle condition beers with just a relatively small amount of sugar.

To answer the original post: The non-bubbling beer had a leak somewhere that allowed CO2 to escape your fermentation vessel through a route other than your airlock.
 
C6H12O6 → 2 C2H5OH + 2 CO2

CO2 is not an incidental part of fermentation, it is always produced.

It is the same reason you can reliably bottle condition beers with just a relatively small amount of yeast.

To answer the original post: The non-bubbling beer had a leak somewhere that allowed CO2 to escape your fermentation vessel through a route other than your airlock.

Yeah, we're really aware of co2, and it's production, but whether or not it makes an airlock bubble or not, or if it gets out somewhere else, or whether the airlock stops or starts or not, is what is incidental.

Like I said earlier,
And yes, in an IDEAL situation (like let's say fermenting in a keg with a tight seal and no leak from around the airlock) the airlock SHOULD bubble 100% of the time (providing there's not too much headspace.) If more co2 is created than can be contained in the space of the fermenter, THEN an airlock should bubble....because an airlock is a valve.

But MOST of us don't have IDEAL situations, and rarely is a plastic or glass fermenter airtight- it really isn't supposed to be anyway...SO we aren't in the best situation to have IDEAL 100% accuracy of an airlock...

Therefore, once again, it shouldn't be used to judge that status or rate of a beer's fermentation, way too many variables affects the activity of airlock bubbling from leaks to the cat brushing against an airlock.

Some folks believe if their airlock stops fermentation is stuck I comfort scared noobs 20-30 times a day who come on here with that. They worry if their airlock suddenly starts again if it's infected. even if 5 minutes before they had opened up their bucket to peak inside, or they moved their fermenter to bottle they make an incorrect assumption that airlock activity = fermention, and don't even note what they just did as a more probably reason for the airlock bubbling.

You want to quibble this, but every day those of us who actually help folks out deal with errant airlocks every day.

Go worship your airlock all you want. It's your beer. But what are you going to do one day if YOUR airlock doesn't bubble? Are you gonna dump your beer? Because some folks have. And that's why we reiterate everyday not to rely on your airlock as a fermentation gauge, only your hydrometer.

I'n not gonna argue with you about this anymore. We're gonna continue helping the airlock panic noob like we do everyday, and you can do whatever you do. Because I don't know you from Adam, so you obviously aren't here everyday dealing with the 50 panicked new brewers a day who are freaked out because of what their airlock is or isn't doing.

You can go debate this with yourself, because we've all done this silly argument to death.

*shrug*
 
lol arguments like this make me laugh

They make Baby Jesus Cry....

you_make_baby_jesus_cry_tshirt-p235629728207299348tr96_400.jpg
 
those of us who actually help folks out deal with errant airlocks every day.

I like to create new accounts every day and ask "is my beer ruined" so that Revvy can copy and paste his blogs and previous comments :p
 
OP, you can skip all posts and read this:

Every fermentation is different. The End

:ban:

Everything else is somewhat :off:
 
No I shouldn't- it's incedental. Whether it does or doesn't means nothing. Only if the yeast eats the sugar, and pees alcohol, that's all that matter, and they do THAT 100% of the time.

Like I said earlier, the fact that if 1 person has a non bubbling airlock where the beer still is made is enough to prove how unimportant to the overall scheme of things.

The fact that some new brewers have dumped their beer without even checking their gravity, because there airlock didn't bubble, or it stopped is a bigger issue. The fact that some folks worship the airlock like it's a mighty magical fermentation gauge, when every day on here people besides me have airlocks that don't bubble.

An airlock's ONLY purpose it to vent excess co2 out of the fermenter to keep the beer off the ceiling, it's not a gauge of fermentation. It's a valve.
That's why we repeat the mantra that "Only numbers on a hydrometer" matter.

Agreed.

I don't use airlocks.The CO2 just leakes out around the perimeter. I don't let the beer sit much more than 10 days. I want to avoid oxidation. Activity has usually stopped. I do simple recipes. If I ever get into some that absolutly requires a long ferment, I'll have to cave in and get a carboy.

It would be foolish to throw away beer because of no airlock activity.

Check the specific gravity. Taste it. Don't drink a whole lot of "green" beer though. I've heard it'll mess with you. But don't just toss it because the airlock is stagnant.
 
Yeast is a living organism and should be treated with love and care. I find my fermentations are always spot on if I visit my primary often and compliment on it's looks.
"Have you lost weight ? You look great us-05"

Hugging and laughing with your primary is also a good idea. I've notice us-05 enjoys a good sublime album and likes to join me in the living room to watch Sons Of Anarchy.

My yeast loves me back

I'm jealous, my beer just hides in the back of the pantry till bottling day. The yeasties seem pretty happy there though.
 
I like to create new accounts every day and ask "is my beer ruined" so that Revvy can copy and paste his blogs and previous comments :p

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f163/recommended-fermentation-time-228072/

Are you responsible for all twenty pages of unanswered threads?

Culture.

Yeast are cultured.

This board has a culture.

Most of us are here because we enjoy discussing beer and there are surprisingly vast differences of opinions and success stories with different methods.

A lot of guys post without looking for answers. Some people provide their opinions and supporting data.

The OP was asking a question.

Some people post entertaining answers. What have you copied and pasted to help someone out with lately?
 
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