Trying to save a slightly gross beer

[Gerry Nobody]

So I like to experiment, sometimes it works sometimes not. In this case I added some gelatinised rice mash to the beer I was brewing. The result was not bad enough to throw away but not, to be honest, entirely pleasant. It has a slightly ashtray-ey smell/taste that I have experienced before and the last time it sort of died away to a tolerable level.
What I'm gonna do next is transfer to another vessel so its not on the trub. What has always been unclear to me is should the vessel be sealed at this point. Fermentation is very much complete at this stage. I have a hunch maybe off flavours are more likely to dissipate if I keep an airlock on it but maybe not, I could seal it as well, maybe that would be more effective, or is it difficult to make a hard and fast rule maybe? Any thoughts?

 

[lumpher]

If you're going to transfer it and try to let that flavor age out, yes, definitely seal it. Otherwise you'll let in bacteria that will be happy to finish ruining it for you.

 

[IslandLizard]

Dang, that's terrible!
For next time, it's important to know where the off-flavor comes from, to prevent it from happening again.

I'd say scorching of the mash, or when gelatinizing the rice by boiling, are the most likely culprits.
Direct heat needs to be well controlled when heating the mash or (thick) rice pulp directly. Also use a thick (tri-ply) bottomed kettle and stir well and constantly, while scraping the bottom thoroughly, so nothing sticks or scorches.
Reduce the heat to a level where you remain in control of the temps.
I often gelatinize (flaked) corn or wheat by boiling, and/or do cereal mashes. A thinner "polenta" is easier to stir to prevent scorching, but sometimes I do a get a small dark (burned) patch on the bottom of the kettle. But never bad enough that I can taste it.

To try fixing the unfortunate boo-boo, I'd store that beer in a keg, if you have one, and bubble CO2 through it every week or so, while it's aging out. It may help remove the smoky/burnt flavors/odors.

 

[Gerry Nobody]

Yes, a keg would be great. Operating on a very limitd budget at the moment so my equipment is pretty primitive, but I really should invest in one. Thanks for the advice!

 

[Gerry Nobody]

Out of curiousity, what is that ashtray smell caused by? To be honest I'm 99% sure it wasn't scorching during the boil. I was fairly attentive this time and got a nice rolling boil going. I thought it was probably something to do with the rice but chemically speaking, no idea really!

 

[IslandLizard]

Yes, a keg would be great. Operating on a very limitd budget at the moment so my equipment is pretty primitive, but I really should invest in one. Thanks for the advice!

Perhaps later... don't rush a large purchase/commitment for this.

On an off chance, is there's a homebrew club or another homebrewer in your area you could contact, and help out with the needed equipment?

Out of curiousity, what is that ashtray smell caused by?

You mean sulfury aromas, similar to striking a match?
Those are likely an indication of burning or scorching.

Sulfury aromas associated with "rotten egg" smell are fermentation derived, caused by stressed yeast, infections, lack of nutrients, and such.

I added some gelatinised rice mash to the beer I was brewing.

My emphasis^
Did you add the rice pulp to the mash or the boil kettle?

 

[waynetempro]

Like you, I like to experiment every so often. To save a meh beer I have found a few things that might help you. Dry hop it enough to overpower the off flavors is pretty easy. Sometimes blending with another beer might be all that it takes to take the edge off of whatever you are disliking. And finally, adding root beer extract to make it a hard root beer works to save some pretty rough beers. I would suggest trying any of these as one gallon batches to see if they resolve your issue.

 

[Gerry Nobody]

Perhaps later... don't rush a large purchase/commitment for this.

On an off chance, is there's a homebrew club or another homebrewer in your area you could contact, and help out with the needed equipment?


You mean sulfury aromas, similar to striking a match?
Those are likely an indication of burning or scorching.

Sulfury aromas associated with "rotten egg" smell are fermentation derived, caused by stressed yeast, infections, lack of nutrients, and such.


My emphasis^
Did you add the rice pulp to the mash or the boil kettle?

Not really. I live out in the arse end of nowhere in Sweden and the only other person who brews that I know makes really horrific mash just for distilling vodka with even more primitive equipment than me

Actually the yeast I used for this beer I got from him, and it is possible that the weird taste I got from this beer has something to do with that, a strange product called "turbo yeast" I think people who make mooonshine mostly use. I thought I would try it but it fermented incredibly fast, 1.075 to 1.007 in just a few days, so stressed yeast is a distinct possibility I guess or lack of nutrients. Also the hops I used were just at their expiration date, so again not optimal...

The sulphur smell/taste I know what you mean, I have got that before I think but this is different. Really an old ashtray is the only way I can describe it, not that I have ever eaten an ashtray but the smell is very similar.
I mashed the rice separately the evening before and then added it to the boil kettle.

 

[Gerry Nobody]

Like you, I like to experiment every so often. To save a meh beer I have found a few things that might help you. Dry hop it enough to overpower the off flavors is pretty easy. Sometimes blending with another beer might be all that it takes to take the edge off of whatever you are disliking. And finally, adding root beer extract to make it a hard root beer works to save some pretty rough beers. I would suggest trying any of these as one gallon batches to see if they resolve your issue.

Thanks, I have never tried dry hopping. This might be a good time to start.
That is an interesting idea about root beer. I've only tried it once or twice (it's not common in this part of the world) but tastes great. I will see if I can find a shop that sells extract...

 

[Agent]

I just have to say that the packaging for that is the most truth-in-advertising I've ever seen. Turbo yeast is just vile.

 

[IslandLizard]

Actually the yeast I used for this beer [... is] a strange product called "turbo yeast"

That is not yeast you would use for what we call "clean" fermentations such as beer, wine, cider, mead, Sake, and other non-distilled beverages.
As most distiller yeasts, she's all about speed and thoroughness to produce the maximum amount of alcohol from the wash in minimum time. All the off-flavors and putrid byproducts are being discarded during (multiple, successive) distilling runs.

I thought I would try it but it fermented incredibly fast, 1.075 to 1.007 in just a few days

I almost hate to ask:
At what temperature did you ferment your beer?

What I'm gonna do next is transfer to another vessel so its not on the trub.

Is this an all-grain brew or using (malt) extracts?
Did you separate the wort (the liquid) from the spent grain before you added the yeast?

 

[IslandLizard]

That said, you really need to use beer yeast to get good beer.

There are many, 100s of strains, and many manufacturers. Now availability in your country or region may be limited. But you only need 2 or 3 good ones.
Kveik yeast strains originated in Scandinavia, and could produce clean beer, especially with some care.
Or perhaps there's a brewery nearby?

You also want to control your fermentation temperatures toward the lower end of a yeast strain's range, so it doesn't binge and create "fusel alcohols" that smell and taste like rubbing alcohol, nail polish remover, paint thinner, or worse.

 

[Gerry Nobody]

That said, you really need to use beer yeast to get good beer.

There are many, 100s of strains, and many manufacturers. Now availability in your country or region may be limited. But you only need 2 or 3 good ones.
Kveik yeast strains originated in Scandinavia, and could produce clean beer, especially with some care.
Or perhaps there's a brewery nearby?

You also want to control your fermentation temperatures toward the lower end of a yeast strain's range, so it doesn't binge and create "fusel alcohols" that smell and taste like rubbing alcohol, nail polish remover, paint thinner, or worse.

Yeah it's garbage yeast. This beer was really more of an experiment/exercice in using up ingredients I had lying around. It was all grain, a mixture of maris otter and some dark malt, as well as the rice, mashed and then separated the wort from grains before the boil. Fermentation was at 20c, very stable, so yeah more likely the yeast just imparted awful tastes. The packaging says it all