Tryhard IPA #6 (Recipe and process check for NEIPA)

[Wazup1984]

Hi Guys,

I just ordered the ingredients for a NEIPA and would like you to confirm what I am planning to do.

This is my 6th try to get a NEIPA as I had them in the states. The other trys where drinkable but had a very harsh hop burn or bitter off flavor to them. Also the "fruit punch" was only on the nose, not on the tongue, even tho I massively dry hoped. I'll mark steps which are new to this try, so you guys can figure out what I changed.

5 gal batch @ 1066 gravity 2:1 chloride / sulfate
76% Marris Otter
13% flaked oats
11% weat

whirlpool:
3,5 oz mosaic
2,5 oz citra

dry hop:
5 oz mosaic
5 oz citra

mash at:
150° for 60 min
162° for 20 min
172° mashout

- boil for 30 min // was boiling 60min
- Whirlpool at 176°, add hops with muslim bags for 20 minutes.
- Ferment at 86° with Voss Kveik // new yeast, used verdant before
- Softcrash to 50° after fermentation is done // dry hoped at "room temp" without soft crash, this is the step I hope that will improve the beer the most
- Dry hop for 1 Day with loose hops at 59° // see above
- Cold crash to 33°
- Keg and carbonate

- regarding oxygen, I am using the Fermzilla with a pressure kit, so the co2 from the beer "pushes" sanitizer out of a Keg so there is only co2 in the keg after fermentation. In this keg I will transfer the beer after dry hop is finished

I hope this process will provide me with a beer with less "hop material bitterness" and more fruit flavors to taste, not only to smell.

Thank you for any input!

Greetings,
Robert

 

[Transamguy77]

What kind of water are you using? I’ve had tap water give me the same results you are having, it may not be your process.

 

[hotbeer]

I don't really know what to advise you, but I'm curious why you are waiting till whirlpool to add any hops. I know you are trying to not have a bitter taste come out so strong in the finished product, but that might be working against you by not adding some of the Citra earlier in the boil or another bittering hop.

 

[Wazup1984]

Kalzium: 141.1 mg/l
Magnesium: 17.9 mg/l
Sulfat: 62.7 mg/l
Chlorid: 132.1 mg/l
Natrium: 9.8 mg/l

After adding salts.
The overall mouthfeel of the beers always have been good tho..

 

[Wazup1984]

I don't really know what to advise you, but I'm curious why you are waiting till whirlpool to add any hops. I know you are trying to not have a bitter taste come out so strong in the finished product, but that might be working against you by not adding some of the Citra earlier in the boil or another bittering hop.

There is no bittering / boil addition with NEIPAs. Due to the massive whirlpool hops, the beer will be bitter enough.

 

[hotbeer]

There is no bittering / boil addition with NEIPAs. Due to the massive whirlpool hops, the beer will be bitter enough.

The NEIPA I've done and the NEIPA recipes I've looked at must not be real NEIPA recipes then. They had hops added during the boil. Some right from the start. All at 15 till flameout.

 

[wepeeler]

You can hop whenever you want for a Neipa. Doesn't change the style of beer unless you're making a bitter bomb, I guess. Soft bitterness and hazy appearance with a soft, often time thick mouthfeel. Some people still do 60 min bittering, then 20, 10, 5, flameout additions (or some combo of those). But the largest addition is typically flameout/whirlpool and the dry hop.

 

[Jag75]

I use .25 oz of magnum @ 60 for my bittering hop

 

[Wazup1984]

So it turned out pretty pale.. there was not really a fruity hop punch to it, and it tasted like water with a bit of malt and hops in it.
SG was 1048, FG was 1010 and i used 18 oz of hops for a 5 gallon batch.

I am really clueless how to get that massiv fruity flavor into the beer.

At least the harsh flavor is gone, so the softcrash + cold crash at lower temp helped.

It seems to me that dryhopping has no effect.

Things i can rule out:
- oxygen
- incorrect temperature
- not enough hops
- fresh hops (when opening the bag, it smells amazing, also during fermentation the smell is amazing)

I am thankful for any advice or thoughts.

Greetings,
Robert

 

[marc1]

How are you excluding oxygen during the dry hop, cold crash, and transfer?
What temp are you serving the beer at?

 

[ScrewyBrewer]

There are no bittering hops in my Pale Ale or NEIPA recipes here, just plenty of whirlpool additions.

 

[Wazup1984]

How are you excluding oxygen during the dry hop, cold crash, and transfer?
What temp are you serving the beer at?

I am using a Fermzilla.
Its gas out is connected to a keg, pushing sanitizer out of it. Once fermentation is done, i bubble co2 through the liquid out of the fermzilla, adding the hops. After 2 days i close transfer to the keg, which was filled with co2 from fermentation.
I am serving at 50°.

 

[marc1]

I am using a Fermzilla.
Its gas out is connected to a keg, pushing sanitizer out of it. Once fermentation is done, i bubble co2 through the liquid out of the fermzilla, adding the hops. After 2 days i close transfer to the keg, which was filled with co2 from fermentation.
I am serving at 50°.

Doesn't seem like that's the problem. Serving warm enough to notice the hops, so that's good. I've noticed with some commercial beer that if they come out of a cold fridge, the hops don't jump out until it's warmed up some

 

[ScrewyBrewer]

The only other thing that comes to mind that dulls hops is chloramine or chlorine in the brewing water.

 

[Wazup1984]

The only other thing that comes to mind that dulls hops is chloramine or chlorine in the brewing water.

We dont have that in our water here in Germany ..
maybe I'll try cryohops or something..

 

[CascadesBrewer]

I am really clueless how to get that massiv fruity flavor into the beer.

Your OG was 1.048? Maybe not your issue, but 1.065+ will help build up the mouthfeel and the malt sweetness. I am not sure a step mash is really needed...but your FG seems fine.

The only question I would have is with "Dry hop for 1 Day with loose hops at 59°". I know I have read articles about short and cool dry hopping. It could be that you are not getting as much flavors out of the dry hops as you want.

 

[ScrewyBrewer]

We dont have that in our water here in Germany ..
maybe I'll try cryohops or something..

I use 20 oz of hops, split between whirlpool and dry hopping, when brewing 10-gallon batches of NEIPAs. I begin the whirlpool at flameout and end it when the wort reaches 170F. The dry hops are added in weighted nylon bags a day or two into fermentation and stay there until the beer is kegged. The beer has loads of hop aroma and flavor. Some even say it tastes juicy.

 

[slayer021175666]

No bittering hops, here. 9 oz of Whirlpool and dry hop additions, only.
I chill to 170 and whirlpool for 20 minutes. Dry hop on day 2 of fermentation and keg on day 5 or 6. Force carb at 40 lbs for 24 hours and start drinking it.

 

[hotbeer]

The only other thing that comes to mind that dulls hops is chloramine or chlorine in the brewing water.

We dont have that in our water here in Germany ..

I think you are mistaken. Germany does use chlorine dioxide and other such to disinfect their municipal water supply. Maybe your particular water supplier doesn't, but you can't make that statement for all.

 

[Deka22]

Your dry hop is too short. After 24 hrs use a picnic tap to pull a sample and see how it is. Do this again after 48 and 72hrs. Changed my life... 3 days is probably the sweet spot for me

 

[wepeeler]

Your dry hop is too short. After 24 hrs use a picnic tap to pull a sample and see how it is. Do this again after 48 and 72hrs. Changed my life... 3 days is probably the sweet spot for me

Current research shows 24-48 hours being plenty of time for hop extraction, especially on the homebrew scale.

http://scottjanish.com/what-we-know-about-dry-hopping/

 

[Deka22]

I have read that and also tried 24 hours and my own perception as well as the other tasters noticed a large increase of hop flavour and aroma after the 2nd day.