Truly Automated Brewing System

[TallKyle]

I am wondering on the feasibility of selling fully automated brewing control panels. I have built a couple for some friends and was seeing your opinions on if this is something that would be of interest. I've built them with 7" and 15" color touch screens with industrial PLC's. I haven't figured out the costing just yet as it would depend on the model but would be competitive. The systems i have built control all temperatures (PID loops) with warnings for low levels and temperature spikes. they also have all circuit protection built in and are built with industrial components. (turbine controls and oil rig automation is my background) Sound like something that would be of interest?

 

[orangehero]

Pretty vague (first) post. What is competitive pricing? $500?

I think only very, very few homebrewers would be interested in an industrial control panel. Usually full automation is a pet project for someone that just makes beer for himself.

I think we would be interested in looking at photographs of one, though. I'm sure your help for people building their own would be welcome here as well.

 

[crane]

Are you trying to come up with a one size fits all control panel or are you going to customize each and everyone per that brewers needs?

 

[Browningbuck]

sounds like a kal clone with touch screen? how are you going to automate sparging other than using expensive Magnetic Inductive Flow Meters, like a IFM SM6001?

 

[muhteeus]

sounds like a kal clone with touch screen? how are you going to automate sparging other than using expensive Magnetic Inductive Flow Meters, like a IFM SM6001?

Toilet bowl level sensors.

For serious.... it can be done without complex expen$ive flow sensors.

 

[Jogurt]

I'd be interested in seeing what your creations look like Out of sheer curiosity.

 

[Browningbuck]

Toilet bowl level sensors.

For serious.... it can be done without complex expen$ive flow sensors.

yes for hlt to mlt that works, but setting up the flow rate from mlt to bk for it to be truely auto youd need a stepper motor on a needle with an accurate flow meter.

 

[IDoBleedBrew]

I can see myself one day going the "truly automated" route. However, when the time comes, I see me researching the best I can and doing it myself. Sure it would be faster and maybe better quality letting someone else do it for me, but it would be more affordable and more fun and enjoyable learning and doing it myself. I figure the DIY aspect of homebrewing is just part of the enjoyment and fun. Sure I could spend $100-$150 for a stir plate, and I could probably pay somebody $30-$40 to build and ship one to me, but I would much rather pay the $15 and just build it myself... not because I'm cheap but because I just think I would appreciate it much more that way.

I'm only speaking for myself though. I'm sure there are probably some people out there who wouldn't want to attempt building their own control panel or they have more money than they have time/skills, so you might find some takers.

 

[ryane]

sounds like a kal clone with touch screen? how are you going to automate sparging other than using expensive Magnetic Inductive Flow Meters, like a IFM SM6001?

I wouldnt use a sm6001 for sparging, temp range is too low (150s), however a su7001 will work (176F max) and they really arent all that expensive. I picked up two brand new ones for 100$/each

 

[lschiavo]

"Truly automated"...what does that mean?

 

[Silentdrinker]

yes for hlt to mlt that works, but setting up the flow rate from mlt to bk for it to be truely auto youd need a stepper motor on a needle with an accurate flow meter.

My bcs can go damn near full auto, but the biggest issue in my eyes is the pump not being self priming and having issues with cavitation. I believe a food safe self priming motor is not cheap.

 

[lschiavo]

Dump the ingredients in the hoppers, come back six weeks later and pull the tap. That's truly automated. I'll buy that. Unfortunately, I don't think that is what Kyle is planning. He may not even be planning to post again...

 

[kladue]

Been there and done that with the phase 2 brewery, place grain bill in hopper, hang auto drop hop bags, connect fermenter, touch auto run icon and walk away.
The control system has 16 analog I/O points, 4 RTD sensors, 4 J thermocouples, and 16 digital points.
Software handles all process control loops with set points derived during the recipe creation process. The hard part of the software development is providing loop set points through calculations based on recipe, and the sequencing of the brewing process with crash recovery. Final version of the software development was done over a years time in 2011/12, as there was no prebuilt package to adapt for this purpose.
Is it practical or sane for home brewing, not a chance, way too much work to create and program.
With a background in process control systems, this was a relatively simple build for me. Here is an old build progress shot of the system missing the hop drop solenoids https://picasaweb.google.com/110297595278760536729/Panels?noredirect=1#5339967138764297570

 

[crane]

Been there and done that with the phase 2 brewery, place grain bill in hopper, hang auto drop hop bags, connect fermenter, touch auto run icon and walk away.
The control system has 16 analog I/O points, 4 RTD sensors, 4 J thermocouples, and 16 digital points.
Software handles all process control loops with set points derived during the recipe creation process. The hard part of the software development is providing loop set points through calculations based on recipe, and the sequencing of the brewing process with crash recovery. Final version of the software development was done over a years time in 2011/12, as there was no prebuilt package to adapt for this purpose.
Is it practical or sane for home brewing, not a chance, way too much work to create and program.
With a background in process control systems, this was a relatively simple build for me. Here is an old build progress shot of the system missing the hop drop solenoids https://picasaweb.google.com/110297595278760536729/Panels?noredirect=1#5339967138764297570

You have an amazing setup. I've seen a lot of your posts and pictures. If you were to build and sell it with enough markup to make it worth your time, how much would you have to sell it for? Also let's assume that everything was bought brand new from reputable sources, not ebay. The point of the question is I think this will be such a large number that most homebrewers will drop their jaw and glass of beer when they see it. I also think that few people would spend that amount of money, and if they did they would want it completely customized for their liking. I just don't see how someone can make a business selling a completely turnkey automated setup in a market that is made up of so many DIYers.

 

[muhteeus]

yes for hlt to mlt that works, but setting up the flow rate from mlt to bk for it to be truely auto youd need a stepper motor on a needle with an accurate flow meter.

I don't disagree. But there are quick and dirty ways to do everything!

 

[muhteeus]

You have an amazing setup. I've seen a lot of your posts and pictures. If you were to build and sell it with enough markup to make it worth your time, how much would you have to sell it for? Also let's assume that everything was bought brand new from reputable sources, not ebay. The point of the question is I think this will be such a large number that most homebrewers will drop their jaw and glass of beer when they see it. I also think that few people would spend that amount of money, and if they did they would want it completely customized for their liking. I just don't see how someone can make a business selling a completely turnkey automated setup in a market that is made up of so many DIYers.

Haha for his setup using "non-ebay" components. You would be in the $100k ballpark, without the engineering and install costs of course . That man has poured weeks of work into that setup.

 

[kladue]

The automated unit was built with Opto 22 hardware and Ebay sourced valves and sensors. The expected price for the control hardware would be in the $2,000 - $3,000 range with rebuilt mass flow controllers. The flash boiler would be about $300 to fabricate, the counter flow chiller would be replaced with a plate cooler.
As I have a test setup to work with, and have gone beyond the Opto PLC platform to develop my own control circuit boards with the similar capabilities for a platform with PWM capable digital outputs able to switch both ac and dc loads, 16 bit analog inputs, 0-10V analog outputs, and pulse counting for flow sensors. With a bit of experience with spark ignition and crossed wires, I have incorporated polymer fuses on isolated digital outputs, and TVS and high cut filters on analog inputs. With on board power regulation the boards are designed for use with a single 24 VDC supply, and with on board address switches you can daisy chain multiple boards for more points as needed by setting the chip address on each board.
The current plan is to connect the boards via I2C to a R.Pi board setup as the control and server head end, with the UI software loaded on a laptop, later an Android version for tablets.