Trouble with dark beers.. always

[Matteo57]

So I'm getting kinda frustrated... I have brewed a good 80+ batches of beer over the past 2.5 years and most have turned out great! The one thing is, every dark beer I try and do it turns out getting a lot of oxidation/stale flavors and I'm not sure why. I do all the same processes for each beer and all different styles. I've done a regular oatmeal stout around 6%, 2 x vanilla porters 5,5%-7%, a wee heavy around 9%, a big RIS around 12% and a pumpkin porter around 8%. All were good coming out of the fermentor except the pumpkin porter. The pumpkin porter already has off flavors and it's only been in there for 4 weeks... The others came out of the fermentor fine but after bottling/kegging the beer they started to pick up the off flavors as time went on.
I have bottled an OK amount of batches, but mostly kegged. I had thought it was probably something to do with how I bottled, racked, and oxidized the beer that way some how. However, with the pumpkin beer now, I'm starting to wonder.
I have had non dark beers that bottled for over a year and nothing wrong with it.
Any ideas on where to start to start pin pointing where my issue lies?
Water ph? Another process that might be doing this?

Thanks for helping me brain storm this, it really is frustrating!!

 

[chickypad]

If you are brewing all grain and only having issues with dark beers water is the first thing that comes to mind. Do you have a water report and are you checking pH? Using anything like Bru'n water or EZwater to help with calculations?

 

[davekippen]

I agree with water as a possible cause. Do some searching and research on brewing water and different beers styles. And get a water report too!

 

[progmac]

i was really unhappy with my dark beers until i started adding all dark grains at vorlauf

 

[LovesIPA]

I had the opposite problem. My dark beers were great but the light beers had off-flavors. I started using RO water and adding brewing salts and the light beers got a lot better.

 

[Matteo57]

I downloaded my city's water report and input those numbers into ezwater calc excel sheet. I haven't checked ph. I have strips but they are really funky and don't seem to work much or I'm using them wrong. I haven't wanted to spend the $100 for a ph meter yet... but maybe I will have to sometime soon down the road.
For my last dark brew (pumpkin porter) I adusted to water report with acid malt, and salts, etc. Again, didn't check it with a meter though so, who knows how accurate it is.

 

[Matteo57]

Does what your city's water report and your actual house's water fluctuate a lot/little? If I'm pulling numbers from my city's report, inputting them into a water program and then adjusting, technically would that usually tend to work? Do I actually need to send in a sample of my water to get it tested?
Also, how much does a filter like this (http://morebeer.com/products/water-filter-kit-10-inch.html) change your water and how?
Sorry, super novice when dealing with water, I am just starting to delve into it!
Thanks!

 

[osoling]

While the experts are talking about it, can't I just buy spring or distiller water? It seems like such an easy fix to buy power water, especially with the travesty that comes out of the tap in my city

 

[LovesIPA]

Does what your city's water report and your actual house's water fluctuate a lot/little?

Yes, very much so.

First, the city water report only tells you what's in the water at the output of the water treatment plant. It doesn't account for anything the water might pick up on its way to your faucet, including and especially what it picks up in your house water pipes. Unless you have a new house, there are often significant mineral build ups inside the pipes.

Also, water mineral content can change, sometimes drastically, from month to month because our water in California comes from reservoirs that start out full in the spring and end up close to empty by early winter.

So I wouldn't put a lot of faith in a city water report. It will give you a general idea, but some mineral concentrations may vary drastically. Typically water utilities care about the stuff in water that's harmful and much less about flavor minerals, whereas brewers care very much about flavor minerals.

I went through all this a few months ago. What I ended up settling on is filling up 5 gallon drinking water jugs ($7 at Walmart) with reverse osmosis (RO) water from Glacier water vending machines. It costs me $1.25 for 5 gallons of water. That way I don't have to pay for the purchase or maintenance of a home water filter.

Then I use Bru'N Water (google it; it's an excel spreadsheet) to figure out how much of a handful of minerals I need to add to the mash and sparge water.

I use:
Gypsum (CaSO4)
Epsom Salts (MgSO4)
Calcium Chloride (CaCl2)
Baking Soda (NaHCO3)

And occasionally some acid malt, although I would recommend using lactic acid as acid malt can be inconsistent.

You'll need a 0.1 gram scale, if you don't already have one. I typically add somewhere up to 1-2 grams of each mineral for a 5 gallon batch. You will need to treat both mash and sparge water.

The first time you look at the spreadsheet, you will be overwhelmed. There is no avoiding it unless you're a chemist. Hang in there, read the instructions, ask questions here and you will be rewarded with great beer.

 

[aeviaanah]

Water!