"Triple IPA" Recipe Guidance

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HM-2

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Currently in the process of putting together a recipe for a triple (hazy) IPA.
Not a style I've brewed before, and not one I can see much guidance on on the 'web other than the David Heath "Fruit Bomb".

Here's what I've got so far:

OG: 1.110
FG: 1.020
ABV: 11.8%
IBU: 55
EBC: 11.4

Malt
Golden Promise (Thomas Fawcett) - 50%
Wheat Malt, Pale (Weyermann) - 15%
Golden Naked Oats (Gladfield) - 10%
Spelt Malt (BestMaltz) - 10%
Malted Oats (Simpsons) - 6%
Torrified Wheat (Thomas Fawcett) - 6%
Cara Gold (Warminster) - 3%

Hops
Mosaic Cryo - 11.8 IBU, at 30m
Sabro - 7.2 IBU, at 30m
Mosaic Cryo - 7.9 IBU, at 5m
Sabro - 4.8 IBU, at 5m

Mosaic Cryo - 8.2 IBU, 30m whirlpool @75
Sabro Cryo - 8.0 IBU, 30m whirlpool @75
Strata - 3.1 IBU, 30m whirlpool @75
Mosaic Incognito - 10g, 30m whirlpool @75
Sabro Incognito- 10g, 30m whirlpool @75

Citra Cryo - 100g, Dry hop day 7
Mosaic Cryo - 100g, Dry hop day 7
Strata - 100g, Dry hop day 7
Citra Spectrum- 15g, Dry hop day 7
Mosaic Spectrum - 15g, Dry hop day 7

Yeast
Step-up 2L starter from 1x pack WLP090 San Diego Super yeast + 1x pack WLP007 Dry English Ale

Plan is to do a reiterated medium fermentability mash, pitch coolish (around 18°C) and let it ramp up to 23°C. Not bothering with an early biotransformation dry hop as they never seem to make much different to me, especially as I seem to get so much hop matter in my fermenter from the kettle anyway!

Any thoughts, ideas, suggestions?
 

AlexKay

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Currently in the process of putting together a recipe for a triple (hazy) IPA.
Not a style I've brewed before, and not one I can see much guidance on on the 'web other than the David Heath "Fruit Bomb".

Here's what I've got so far:

OG: 1.110
FG: 1.020
ABV: 11.8%
IBU: 55
EBC: 11.4

Malt
Golden Promise (Thomas Fawcett) - 50%
Wheat Malt, Pale (Weyermann) - 15%
Golden Naked Oats (Gladfield) - 10%
Spelt Malt (BestMaltz) - 10%
Malted Oats (Simpsons) - 6%
Torrified Wheat (Thomas Fawcett) - 6%
Cara Gold (Warminster) - 3%

Hops
Mosaic Cryo - 11.8 IBU, at 30m
Sabro - 7.2 IBU, at 30m
Mosaic Cryo - 7.9 IBU, at 5m
Sabro - 4.8 IBU, at 5m

Mosaic Cryo - 8.2 IBU, 30m whirlpool @75
Sabro Cryo - 8.0 IBU, 30m whirlpool @75
Strata - 3.1 IBU, 30m whirlpool @75
Mosaic Incognito - 10g, 30m whirlpool @75
Sabro Incognito- 10g, 30m whirlpool @75

Citra Cryo - 100g, Dry hop day 7
Mosaic Cryo - 100g, Dry hop day 7
Strata - 100g, Dry hop day 7
Citra Spectrum- 15g, Dry hop day 7
Mosaic Spectrum - 15g, Dry hop day 7

Yeast
Step-up 2L starter from 1x pack WLP090 San Diego Super yeast + 1x pack WLP007 Dry English Ale

Plan is to do a reiterated medium fermentability mash, pitch coolish (around 18°C) and let it ramp up to 23°C. Not bothering with an early biotransformation dry hop as they never seem to make much different to me, especially as I seem to get so much hop matter in my fermenter from the kettle anyway!

Any thoughts, ideas, suggestions?
This all looks pretty solid, and if you made it exactly like this, I'd drink it. Some ideas:
  • I like my IPAs lighter in color, and would probably drop the golden naked oats to get there, but that's just me.
  • You're not going to taste or otherwise perceive the three different types of wheaty things or the oats. I'd probably simplify the malt bill to 50% GP, 30% white wheat, 15% flaked (unmalted) oats, and 5% cara-whatever. I think unmalted oats will contribute more to creaminess than malted will.
  • If you do use malted oats, remember to set the mill gap very tight.
  • It seems like a waste to use cryo hops in what is essentially a bittering-only addition. I'd just go for the same total IBU using only a 5 minute addition; alternately, I'd use something like Magnum at 30 or 60.
  • I'd personally also drop the Citra in favor of more Sabro/Mosaic/Strata; with three other hop varieties, I don't think it's going to have a lot of impact.
  • I love Strata, by the way.
 
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HM-2

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This all looks pretty solid, and if you made it exactly like this, I'd drink it. Some ideas:
Thanks for the feedback:
  • I've tweaked the malt bill to push the EBC down to more like 10...difficult for me to get much lower than that with GP (at 5 EBC) in the mix though I could use an extra pale and lose a bit of the flavour.
  • Pulled the GN Oats from the recipe (love the flavour but at that tiny quantity they'll probably get lost) and rejigged some of the quantities (52% GP, 15% Chit instead of Spelt, 15% wheat malt and 10% malted oats.
  • I've kept 6% torrefied wheat as I really like it for promoting body and mouthfeel in my hazies, and the 3% CaraGold has become 2% Carapils
  • I've replaced all the bittering additions with about 30 IBU of Flex bittering hop extract
The Citra in the dry hop mix is mostly a product of availability (or lack thereof) of Spectrum in other hop varieties. I could replace the 100g of Citra + 15g Spectrum with ~200g Sabro Cryo...but that's a LOT of hop matter in the fermenter and I've had big issues with hop burn on NEIPAs where I'm dry hopping at the equivalent of 18+g/L
 

Beenym88

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I’d definitely get rid of the 30 minutes and put it in the whirlpool. The extreme whirlpool and dry hopping rates give the perceived bitterness.
 
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11.8% ABV? Why so high?
Because, IMO, 11-12% is the "sweet spot" in commercial Triple IPAs I've had, particularly of the hazy variety. I initially planned for ~11% but have struggled to balance OG and FG where I want them at the lower (!) end of that range with yeasts I know will play ball nicely with the style, and at the mash temperatures I think are conducive to getting the best result in hazies.
 
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Where does “Triple IPA” meet “American Barleywine”?
A fair question. I would argue a TIPA is hops back, front and centre with a high ABV backbone to carry them, whereas an American Barleywine at least attempts to balance hop and malt, though usually leaning towards the former.
 

PCABrewing

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Currently in the process of putting together a recipe for a triple (hazy) IPA.
Not a style I've brewed before, and not one I can see much guidance on on the 'web other than the David Heath "Fruit Bomb".

Here's what I've got so far:

OG: 1.110
FG: 1.020
ABV: 11.8%
IBU: 55
EBC: 11.4

Malt
Golden Promise (Thomas Fawcett) - 50%
Wheat Malt, Pale (Weyermann) - 15%
Golden Naked Oats (Gladfield) - 10%
Spelt Malt (BestMaltz) - 10%
Malted Oats (Simpsons) - 6%
Torrified Wheat (Thomas Fawcett) - 6%
Cara Gold (Warminster) - 3%

Hops
Mosaic Cryo - 11.8 IBU, at 30m
Sabro - 7.2 IBU, at 30m
Mosaic Cryo - 7.9 IBU, at 5m
Sabro - 4.8 IBU, at 5m

Mosaic Cryo - 8.2 IBU, 30m whirlpool @75
Sabro Cryo - 8.0 IBU, 30m whirlpool @75
Strata - 3.1 IBU, 30m whirlpool @75
Mosaic Incognito - 10g, 30m whirlpool @75
Sabro Incognito- 10g, 30m whirlpool @75

Citra Cryo - 100g, Dry hop day 7
Mosaic Cryo - 100g, Dry hop day 7
Strata - 100g, Dry hop day 7
Citra Spectrum- 15g, Dry hop day 7
Mosaic Spectrum - 15g, Dry hop day 7

Yeast
Step-up 2L starter from 1x pack WLP090 San Diego Super yeast + 1x pack WLP007 Dry English Ale

Plan is to do a reiterated medium fermentability mash, pitch coolish (around 18°C) and let it ramp up to 23°C. Not bothering with an early biotransformation dry hop as they never seem to make much different to me, especially as I seem to get so much hop matter in my fermenter from the kettle anyway!

Any thoughts, ideas, suggestions?
Seems like more of a Quad except for the IBU of 55 no?
Definitely interesting opportunity for unique taste.
That would be fine with my taste palette.
 

PCABrewing

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Sorry, I'm a bit lost. Quad what?
GABF-2015 listed a "Belgian Style" Quadruple. Your're in the same OG range, and almost the IBU range for that but it isn't specifically listed as "Hazey". A description of the style describes it as "slight chill-haze acceptable, but I don't think they were striving for hazey.
And of course the prolific hopping plan you defined is much more complex than the style I identified.

Just another thought, I saw a later post where you removed the Golden Naked oats and Oat malt (if I read it correctly), will that affect your plan for haze? I have never aimed for hazey but have achieved it accidentally a couple times :).

Good luck, I hope it turns out to be what you envision.
 

AlexKay

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Thanks for the feedback:
  • I've tweaked the malt bill to push the EBC down to more like 10...difficult for me to get much lower than that with GP (at 5 EBC) in the mix though I could use an extra pale and lose a bit of the flavour.
  • Pulled the GN Oats from the recipe (love the flavour but at that tiny quantity they'll probably get lost) and rejigged some of the quantities (52% GP, 15% Chit instead of Spelt, 15% wheat malt and 10% malted oats.
  • I've kept 6% torrefied wheat as I really like it for promoting body and mouthfeel in my hazies, and the 3% CaraGold has become 2% Carapils
  • I've replaced all the bittering additions with about 30 IBU of Flex bittering hop extract
The Citra in the dry hop mix is mostly a product of availability (or lack thereof) of Spectrum in other hop varieties. I could replace the 100g of Citra + 15g Spectrum with ~200g Sabro Cryo...but that's a LOT of hop matter in the fermenter and I've had big issues with hop burn on NEIPAs where I'm dry hopping at the equivalent of 18+g/L
More little nit-picks! I’ve never seen much value to chit; unless you’re following the Reinheitsgebot, flaked barley will do just fine. If you’re adding it for head retention, wheat is better. And I really haven’t had any luck with Carapils; it does nothing for my beers. There’s some literature out there that suggests it’s actually foam-negative, too. I’d keep the Caragold, or use Caravienne, or something else with a taste.
 
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HM-2

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GABF-2015 listed a "Belgian Style" Quadruple. Your're in the same OG range, and almost the IBU range for that but it isn't specifically listed as "Hazey".
Ahh gotcha. I didn't know if you meant quad IPA (which is sort-of-a-thing but tends to be 16+% ABV). Suffice to say, the recipe above isn't a quad by design, in terms of "things actually listed in the GABF style guide" it's probably closest to an American-style barleywine but slightly paler and dryer, and with much most post-flameout hops.

More little nit-picks! I’ve never seen much value to chit; unless you’re following the Reinheitsgebot, flaked barley will do just fine. If you’re adding it for head retention, wheat is better. And I really haven’t had any luck with Carapils; it does nothing for my beers. There’s some literature out there that suggests it’s actually foam-negative, too. I’d keep the Caragold, or use Caravienne, or something else with a taste.
How about a grainbill something like the following:

60% Golden Promise OR extra pale MO
20% Wheat Malt
10% Malted Oats
7% Torrified Wheat
3% Flaked Oats

I do realise that drops the presence of caramel anything, so maybe swapping the Golden Naked Oats back in for the Flaked for a bit more flavour?
I've also been tweaking mash temp and a few other characteristics to bring the overall ABV down to 11% in Brewfather- mashing slightly higher to still hit 1.020 FG.
 
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