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Trillium Dialed in clone recipe critique

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elburrogrande

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This is my second attempt at cloning Trillium Dialed-in. This is what I will be trying.

3.5 gallon batch

51% Pilsner
18.5% flaked wheat
15.9% Crystal 15
8.9% Sugar
5.7% acidulated malt

estimated OG= 1.075
estimated FG= 1.012
estimated ABV= 8.2%

90 minute boil

.5oz Columbus at 60 min
1.5 Columbus 20 minute hop stand

.5oz nelson sauvin 3 days into fermentation dry hop for 5 days
2 oz Galaxy 3 days into fermentation dry hop for 5 days

Santa Cruz organic white grape juice @ 5 days

remove original dry hops

.5oz nelson sauvin 8 days into fermentation dry hop for 3 days
2 oz Galaxy 8 days into fermentation dry hop for 3 days


Any advice will be appreciated
 

JF_HBrews

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Disclaimer - I have not had this beer.

You recipe sounds great overall. I would make two small changes - drop the sugar and re-weight your Galaxy vs. Nelson Sauvin hops.
1. I'm not sure if your calculations took in the account the grape juice. It may get to dry and thin with the sugar and grape juice (unless the sugar is to approximate the sugars from the juice).
2. Where you have 4 oz Galaxy and 1 oz Nelson Sauvin I would go something like 2 oz Galaxy and 3 oz Nelson Sauvin. The Nelson Sauvin hops have some wine like character while the Galaxy is pretty strong in the tropical and stone fruit flavors.

As far a the timing you may want to wait to dry hop until 2-3 days after you add the grape juice as you will definitely have very active fermentation again.

I'm looking forward to hearing about your finished beer!
 
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elburrogrande

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Disclaimer - I have not had this beer.

You recipe sounds great overall. I would make two small changes - drop the sugar and re-weight your Galaxy vs. Nelson Sauvin hops.
1. I'm not sure if your calculations took in the account the grape juice. It may get to dry and thin with the sugar and grape juice (unless the sugar is to approximate the sugars from the juice).
2. Where you have 4 oz Galaxy and 1 oz Nelson Sauvin I would go something like 2 oz Galaxy and 3 oz Nelson Sauvin. The Nelson Sauvin hops have some wine like character while the Galaxy is pretty strong in the tropical and stone fruit flavors.

As far a the timing you may want to wait to dry hop until 2-3 days after you add the grape juice as you will definitely have very active fermentation again.

I'm looking forward to hearing about your finished beer!
Thanks! Sorry if I wasn't too clear. I double dry hop. Once during the first active fermentation then again 3 days after adding the juice during the second active fermentation. I just bottled the first batch and it smelled and tasted great. This is the second attempt with some modifications. I like your idea of increasing the Nelson Sauvin to Galaxy ratio. I might also rethink the sugar ratio. Because the first batch got down to 1.010 without sugar but the OG was only 1.065
 

PissyFingers

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Are you sure you want 16% crystal? I would've thought 5% MAX, I haven't used crystal in my IPAs for over a year and like them better for it. Just my 2 cents :mug:
 

JonM

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Are you sure you need that much acid malt? It seems like a lot.

I quickly ran the recipe through Brewers Friend water calculator and, assuming enough CaCl and gypsum to get 50 mg/l of calcium and about 100 S04, I got a predicted mash pH of about 4.9.
 
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elburrogrande

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Thanks for the input! This was the original recipe I used and it came out amazing. Fruity and juicy. Very tropical with medium bitterness.

3.5 gallon batch

6.3lbs Pilsner
1.7lbs flaked wheat
.4lbs C-15

OG. 1.066
FG. 1.012
ABV 7.0 %

same hop and juice schedule as above. I used Gigayeast Vermont IPA as the yeast
 
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elburrogrande

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Are you sure you want 16% crystal? I would've thought 5% MAX, I haven't used crystal in my IPAs for over a year and like them better for it. Just my 2 cents :mug:
It is a concern. If you look at my first attempt I only used about 6 1/2 oz.
 
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elburrogrande

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This was the final recipe I brewed on Sunday. Ill post on how it turns out.
3.5 gallons
Pilsner 52.1%
Flaked wheat 19.3%
Crystal 15 16.4%
Sugar 5.7%
Acid Malt 6.4%

I decreased the 60 minute Columbus from .5oz to .37oz. and Ill be doubling the Nelson dry hops
 

WesM63

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I'm thinking about brewing this but a couple of questions.

How much grape juice are you using?
What's your target IBU?
What temp did you mash at?
 
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elburrogrande

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I'm thinking about brewing this but a couple of questions.

How much grape juice are you using?
What's your target IBU?
What temp did you mash at?
I used about 3/4 liter of grapejuice. I felt this is perfect. Nobody I've given a drink to can tell it has grape juice. it has no grape flavor whatsoever. Target IBU is about 40 but it is difficult to say due to hopstand and dryhopping. Mashing was done at 152 degrees.
 

hopsandhops

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There was a BYO clone for Fort Point that said they use WLP007 for their house yeast.

I have a Trillium inspired brew just about ready to keg. First NE style I've used 007. I've always used Conan or 1318 to great results. I'm interested in seeing if this 007 brew has any similarity to Trillium brews. :mug:
 
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elburrogrande

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I'm thinking about brewing this but a couple of questions.

How much grape juice are you using?
What's your target IBU?
What temp did you mash at?
also make sure you boil for 90 minutes if you do decide to try this
 
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elburrogrande

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This is the one I've been trying. Sooo good. Ill probably go back to this recipe for the third attempt but switch from conan to the 007

3.5 gallon batch

6.3lbs Pilsner
1.7lbs flaked wheat
.4lbs C-15

OG. 1.066
FG. 1.012
ABV 7.0 %

yeast: Gigayeast Vermont ipa

13240101_10207921673954063_2131145761784643256_n.jpg
 

WesM63

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Grain arrived for this today, hops are en-route.

Thanks for the tips @elburrogrande
 

phyllobeddo

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I've never had this beer, but one of my buddies rated it very high and I've been tinkering with a recipe for this as well. I'll be looking over this thread for tips as well. Hope to brew it in a month or two. I have several already planned. Subbed.
 

jmaessen

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There was a BYO clone for Fort Point that said they use WLP007 for their house yeast.
True for most of their beers, but Trillium in particular is a Saison brewed with yeast isolated from a vineyard by the founders (I believe they use this yeast in all their saisons). I wouldn't rule out using a wine yeast to reproduce it.
 

tempestam83

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Just bottled a 3-gallon BIAB batch of the Fort Point galaxy dry-hopped today. Smells like pure pineapple/grapefruit. I did a huge galaxy dry hop. The recipe I used from from BYO with a few tweaks. Surprisingly little hops in the boil and whirlpool. Most of the flavor seems to be coming from the dry hops. Very excited to try this in a few weeks.

6 lb American - Pale 2-Row
1 lb American - White Wheat
0.4375 lb American - Carapils
0.125 lb American - Caramel / Crystal 10L
0.25 lb Flaked Wheat
0.125 lb Flaked Oats

0.25 oz Columbus Pellet 15 Boil 60 min
0.5 oz Columbus Pellet 15 Boil 10 min
1.2 oz Columbus Pellet 15 Whirlpool at 180 °F 30 min
4.2 oz Galaxy Pellet 14.25 Dry Hop 5 days
0.6 oz columbus Pellet Dry hop 5 days

Safale 04 Yeast

IMG_2934.jpg
 

WesM63

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Just finished a 6.08g batch of this on the grainfather.

OG 1.073

Pitched a 1.5L starter of WLP075 (for a comp)
 
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elburrogrande

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Just finished a 6.08g batch of this on the grainfather.

OG 1.073

Pitched a 1.5L starter of WLP075 (for a comp)
Nice! wondering what kind of flavors you will get with that yeast. I just had a bottle of my second attempt and while delicious, I feel I need to tone down the crystal.

Third attempt will go as follows:

67.1% pilsner
19% flaked wheat
6.3% crystal 15
5.1% corn sugar
2.5% acid malt

also worth noting that for the second attempt I used an entire liter of grape juice added after initial fermentation. I was toying with the idea of adding a bottle of sauvignon blanc instead of grape juice. Anyone see a problem with this?
 

WesM63

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Nice! wondering what kind of flavors you will get with that yeast. I just had a bottle of my second attempt and while delicious, I feel I need to tone down the crystal.

Third attempt will go as follows:

67.1% pilsner
19% flaked wheat
6.3% crystal 15
5.1% corn sugar
2.5% acid malt

also worth noting that for the second attempt I used an entire liter of grape juice added after initial fermentation. I was toying with the idea of adding a bottle of sauvignon blanc instead of grape juice. Anyone see a problem with this?
I have 3 beers fermenting with this yeast strain and so far, it's fairly neutral from what I can tell. Should fit fairly well as one of the yest strains in WLP075 is WLP007 which is what is recommended for Trillium clones.

Here is what I went with in my first attempt. (6.08g)

52.9% Pilsner
23.5% Flaked Wheat
11.8% Crystal 15
5.9% Acidulated
5.9% Dextrose

I do think the crystal might be a bit much as well but we'll see.

I ordered the Alexander's Sun Country Sauvigon Blanc Grape Juice Concentrate from Midwest. I wasn't sure how much to add, based on some of the responses I've seen about Midas Touch clones (to wine like, to much heat, etc). So, I spoke to JC at Trillium about the grape juice, this was what he sent me:

"I'd suggest calculating what would be a normal gravity addition from simple sugars from dextrose for an American DIPA and substitute that gravity addition w Grape must. Be sure to account for additional volume from the juice!"

While JC's response didn't help a great deal, I'm thinking i'm going to add around 23FL OZ (about 1/2 the can) for this attempt (I should note, the reason i'm using half the can is to get to the desired abv, around 8.5% providing the yeast doesn't over attenuate). If I attempt this again, I think I would completely omit the dextrose in the boil and calculate the required gravity adjustment from the grape juice.

The math comes from here, as DFH Midas Touch would be a very similar process. The entire can, would be similar to using 1.89lbs of dextrose.
 
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elburrogrande

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Can't wait to hear how yours comes out. The Crystal did not make it overly malty or sweet but the color was too dark for a dialed in clone. For the calculations I don't think I had to do anything different. I measured the gravity of the grape juice and it was 1.070 which was about the same as the OG of the wort. I am thinking Ill probably try again next weekend and Ill use a bottle of 13%abv sauvignon blanc and figure out those calculations
 
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elburrogrande

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Just bottled a 3-gallon BIAB batch of the Fort Point galaxy dry-hopped today. Smells like pure pineapple/grapefruit. I did a huge galaxy dry hop. The recipe I used from from BYO with a few tweaks. Surprisingly little hops in the boil and whirlpool. Most of the flavor seems to be coming from the dry hops. Very excited to try this in a few weeks.

6 lb American - Pale 2-Row
1 lb American - White Wheat
0.4375 lb American - Carapils
0.125 lb American - Caramel / Crystal 10L
0.25 lb Flaked Wheat
0.125 lb Flaked Oats

0.25 oz Columbus Pellet 15 Boil 60 min
0.5 oz Columbus Pellet 15 Boil 10 min
1.2 oz Columbus Pellet 15 Whirlpool at 180 °F 30 min
4.2 oz Galaxy Pellet 14.25 Dry Hop 5 days
0.6 oz columbus Pellet Dry hop 5 days

Safale 04 Yeast
The color looks on point. I would not wait a few weeks to start drinking though. These beers are great after 1 week!
 

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Hey guys, I'm still a rookie with about 20 extract brews under my belt but learning fast. My friend from Boston sent me a bottle of these magical unicorn tears and I can't get it out of my mind! A perfect, refreshing brew for these hot NC summers. Anywho, I was hoping someone who knows how to convert these ingredients to an extract recipe through software or sorcery could post the results? I'm sure the recipe would be posted in the hall of fame. Anyone up for the challenge?

Cheers!
 

WesM63

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Hey guys, I'm still a rookie with about 20 extract brews under my belt but learning fast. My friend from Boston sent me a bottle of these magical unicorn tears and I can't get it out of my mind! A perfect, refreshing brew for these hot NC summers. Anywho, I was hoping someone who knows how to convert these ingredients to an extract recipe through software or sorcery could post the results? I'm sure the recipe would be posted in the hall of fame. Anyone up for the challenge?

Cheers!
The difficult part in converting this recipe to extract would be the flaked wheat as it cannot be steeped. Flaked wheat needs to be mashed, so it would need to be a mini/partial-mash rather than full extract.

The pilsner is simple, use pilsen LME/DME in it's place. In a 6gallon batch, use 6.75lbs for LME or 5.4lbs for DME.
 

trousertrout

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Thanks! I've done a partial-mas so that's not a problem! Still keep it at 152? Also, should I add the LME after the mash and still boil for the 90 minutes?

I appreciate all of your help.

Cheers
 
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elburrogrande

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yeah 152 seems to be a good temperature. WesM63, How did your beer turn out?
 

phyllobeddo

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What about this recipe minus the grape juice and sticking with what grains I have in stock? I’ve got 2 oz of Galaxy and 2 oz of Nelson to use up along with some Columbus.

2.5 gallon recipe

4.5 lb Bohemian Pilsner
1.25 lb Flaked Wheat
4 oz C10L
4 oz C20L
3 oz Acid Malt
8 oz Corn Sugar (boil)

Hop Schedule
8 g Columbus 60 min
4 g Columbus 5 min
14 g Nelson 0 min

Dry Hop
28 g Galaxy 8 days
21 g Nelson 8 days

28 g Galaxy 4 days
21 g Nelson 4 days

Water - 4.5 g RO
Salts - CaCl - 3 grams | Gypsum - 3 g
Mash @ 152 for 60 min
90 minute boil
Conan yeast (starter)
 

WesM63

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yeah 152 seems to be a good temperature. WesM63, How did your beer turn out?
Pretty good so far. Going in the keg tomorrow. I'm not convinced the grape juice fermented out as expected as it does have some residual sweetness. I'll take a gravity reading tomorrow when I keg it.
 

Ruckusz28

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This is the one I've been trying. Sooo good. Ill probably go back to this recipe for the third attempt but switch from conan to the 007

3.5 gallon batch

6.3lbs Pilsner
1.7lbs flaked wheat
.4lbs C-15

OG. 1.066
FG. 1.012
ABV 7.0 %

yeast: Gigayeast Vermont ipa
When you used this yeast, did you experience difficulty getting it to drop out? I wound up having to cold crash with gelatin in order to get all the debris to settle out before i could find the true flavor.
 

WesM63

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Just an update on mine. I bottled half and kegged half. Neither are very good, both have massive sweetness. Bottle has surprisingly more hop aroma but 0 carbonation after a week and a half. The kegged version is the opposite.

I'm not sure where I went wrong, seems like the yeast is dead/gone as it didn't seem to ferment out any of the grape juice.

I'll hold on to the bottles and see if they improve. The keg will like be dumped to make way for new beers.
 
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elburrogrande

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Just an update on mine. I bottled half and kegged half. Neither are very good, both have massive sweetness. Bottle has surprisingly more hop aroma but 0 carbonation after a week and a half. The kegged version is the opposite.

I'm not sure where I went wrong, seems like the yeast is dead/gone as it didn't seem to ferment out any of the grape juice.

I'll hold on to the bottles and see if they improve. The keg will like be dumped to make way for new beers.
That's a bummer. did you take gravity readings? I've never used extract but the grape juice has fermented out completely both times for me. it does seem like your yeast are dead. I bottle and start drinking them about the 3rd day and they are almost fully carbonated even then. I just bottled a third batch but I used substituted the grape juice with a bottle of sauvignon blanc and used a different yeast so im curious as to how it will taste.
 
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elburrogrande

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Update. This is the best I've made yet. I popped this one open 3 days after bottling. This is the recipe I used and Ill probably make this exact one again.

3.5 gallon batch

45% German Pilsner
37% Flaked wheat
8% Acid Malt
2% crystal 15
8% corn sugar

Yeast: Imperial A01 House

.5oz Columbus 60 minutes
1.5oz Columbus 20 minute whirlpool

1oz Nelson Sauvin & 1oz galaxy after 3 days in the fermenter

2 oz galaxy and 2 oz Nelson Sauvin on day 10

bottled on the 14th day with 1 bottle of sauvignon blanc and 2oz of table sugar mixed in bottling bucket

20160629_215115-02.jpg
 

trousertrout

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Quick update from my extract attempt. Partial mashed the oats followed by a 90 min boil with 6 lbs Pilsen extract and 4oz corn sugar. Followed the hop additions per elburro's first schedule, added the grape juice and it is still chugging away. Final dry hop goes in tonight with kegging on Thursday. Smells amazing so far! We'll see how it finishes! I'll post next weekend with the results...

I'm digging the idea of the sav addition in the bottling bucket and will def try that next round!
 
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elburrogrande

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Quick update from my extract attempt. Partial mashed the oats followed by a 90 min boil with 6 lbs Pilsen extract and 4oz corn sugar. Followed the hop additions per elburro's first schedule, added the grape juice and it is still chugging away. Final dry hop goes in tonight with kegging on Thursday. Smells amazing so far! We'll see how it finishes! I'll post next weekend with the results...

I'm digging the idea of the sav addition in the bottling bucket and will def try that next round!
nice. I bet it smells even better after the second dry hop. Is there a reason you went with oats instead of flaked wheat? I think you should be good with just a 60 minute boil just fyi for next time. Let us know how it turns out!
 

trousertrout

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My bad I did use wheat... Thanks for the tip with the boil time, that extra 30 minutes seemed like eternity, you all grain guys have some patience!! I'll post some pics and tasting notes this weekend.....cheers
 
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elburrogrande

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My bad I did use wheat... Thanks for the tip with the boil time, that extra 30 minutes seemed like eternity, you all grain guys have some patience!! I'll post some pics and tasting notes this weekend.....cheers
How did the extract batch come out?
 

WesM63

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Update on mine after about 4wks in the bottle. The sweetness has settled, there is still a slight hint.

Otherwise, large amounts of galaxy and nelson with a decent amount of white grape, low to moderate bitterness, no alcohol burn.

I think the next time I give this a try, i'll stick to standard grape juice and see how it turns out.

 

trousertrout

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View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1469038463.028118.jpgView attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1469038479.401907.jpg.

Pretty damn good I must say! First one is a day after force carb @ 30# (pappy glass) and the second one is from today. I've tasted this beer revolve from subtle crispness & hoppy, to a little sweet, smooth and hippy and now slowly getting a little bitter & hoppy. I think it has great potential, I think it's down to playing with the grape juice / wine as the burro had suggested.
 
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elburrogrande

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about to brew this again for a competition. I feel like I got a pretty good handle on this recipe but critiques are welcomed. This is what I plan on doing. Only difference it is an all organic competition so I am switching Galaxy for a mix of Rakau and Citra

6 gallon batch

12lbs German Pilsner 65%
4.5lbs flaked wheat 24.5%
.75lbs Dextrine 4%
.5lbs Crystal 15 2.7%
.625lbs acid malt 3%

estimated OG= 1.078
estimated FG= 1.013
estimated ABV= 8.5%

90 minute boil

.75oz Columbus at 60 min
.5 Columbus flame out
1oz Rakau/citra mix flame out
2 oz Nelson Sauvin whirlpool 30 minutes
1oz Rakau/citra mix whirlpool 30 minutes

additional ingredients:
Yeast nutrient

Yeast: Conan or 1318

3oz nelson sauvin 3 days into fermentation dry hop for 5 days

2L Santa Cruz organic white grape juice @ 5 days

remove original dry hops @ day 8

1oz nelson sauvin 8 days into fermentation dry hop for 3 days
2 oz Rakau/Citra mix 8 days into fermentation dry hop for 3 days
 
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