Hey guys.....I'm taking the leap from extract brewing to All Grain and I'm torn on what equipment to buy. I don't know whether to buy the traditional all grain kits or simply jump up to more sophisticated equipment such as Brewers Edge Mash kits or the Grainfather. Another option would be to hold off until after Homebrewcon in Portland but I kind of wanted to get a couple of batches under my belt before the conference. Thoughts?
Transition from Extract to All Grain- Equipment recommendations
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Griffin495
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What equipment do you have know? Assuming you have a 5 gallon kettle, you could just buy a paint strainer bag or a bag from Wilser and jump right in doing 2.5 G BIAB batches and figuring out if all grain is for you before spending anymore money. But I'll answer your question...AG will be for you. And if you do like BIAB after doing some batches, you could up your kettle to a 10 or 15 G kettle and you'd be set.
I'm not all-in on mashing by BIAB all the time, but I still see how BIAB is good for making the transition. If after that you decide you want to keep going with all-grain, I'd recommend you get a cooler and go that route.
What volume of batches do you normally make? How strong are the beers you usually brew? It makes a difference if you like to make small batches of Kolsch or if you make 10 gallon batches of barleywine or doppelbock.
What volume of batches do you normally make? How strong are the beers you usually brew? It makes a difference if you like to make small batches of Kolsch or if you make 10 gallon batches of barleywine or doppelbock.
It all depends on your budget, interest level, and space available.
This question comes up a lot, usually brings 2-3 pages of suggestions before these questions are answered.
Maybe you should dive into something like this:
https://spikebrewing.com/collections/spike-systems/products/spike-system-30-gallon
Or just buy a paint strainer and try BIAB using the equipment that you already have.
Whatever your dream system is, I encourage you to go for it.
Taking a brick by brick approach will cost you much more and leave you with loads of equipment that you no longer care to use.
This question comes up a lot, usually brings 2-3 pages of suggestions before these questions are answered.
Maybe you should dive into something like this:
https://spikebrewing.com/collections/spike-systems/products/spike-system-30-gallon
Or just buy a paint strainer and try BIAB using the equipment that you already have.
Whatever your dream system is, I encourage you to go for it.
Taking a brick by brick approach will cost you much more and leave you with loads of equipment that you no longer care to use.
I wish I knew that at the beginning. I probably still would have been too stubborn to take it seriously. I have a few more 1-gallon jugs than I need. And I didn't need to buy all that Mr. B stuff when I first started...
I have hundreds of dollars worth of stuff I no longer use. Burners, kettles, rims system, controllers, immersion chiller, plate chiller, carboys, etc...
I still have my Mr. Beer fermentor as well, that little turd got me into all this.
I have made beer with a variety of techniques on a variety of equipment.
I would have saved myself lots of trouble, time, and money by jumping in head first instead of brick by brick.
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chickypad
lupulin shift victim
Just to throw in another opinion for you, I've gone the opposite way. I started with coolers, went almost immediately to a 10 gallon/3 stainless vessel sculpture, and now pretty much exclusively do smaller batch BIAB. It all comes down to personal preferance, with batch size potentially also being a big factor. You just have to do your research, or maybe watch some brew sessions in your area, and decide what you find most appealing. I will say BIAB is a good way to give all grain a try with essentially no equipment investment.
All great comments. Thanks guys. I guess I should have given a little more info up front. I currently brew five gallon batches for my dual tap kegorater. I always have a five gallon batch of extract home brew and leave the other tap for guest beers. I really don't have a desire to go more than five gallons nor am I hot to do one gallon experimentals. I guess thats why that Brewers edge mash unit looks so attractive to me. It can't handle more than five gallon batches. I was just concerned that I might be missing out on some of the "technique" or knowledge of the process I might get from starting with coolers. I am firmly committed to doing this. I currently have an external burner, multiple carbouys, a copper chiller, and a 10 gallon brew kettle.
If you have a local homebrew club, that is a great place to start. Chances are that someone in the club is brewing every weekend and you can sit in on one of their sessions, see what their system is like, and get an idea on what works for you.
That brewers edge unit doesn't look half bad for a biab setup.
Only problem is the length of the brew day, it will take a half hour to heat up to mash temp and an hour to heat up to boiling with such a small element.
BIAB is simply a no-sparge brew, you should be able to do low gravity beer with similar success as a 2-3 vessel system. You will have some trouble with high gravity brewing; if you don't like imperials then you will be in good shape. You won't hit efficiency numbers like a 3 vessel system but a little more grain will compensate for that.
Only problem is the length of the brew day, it will take a half hour to heat up to mash temp and an hour to heat up to boiling with such a small element.
BIAB is simply a no-sparge brew, you should be able to do low gravity beer with similar success as a 2-3 vessel system. You will have some trouble with high gravity brewing; if you don't like imperials then you will be in good shape. You won't hit efficiency numbers like a 3 vessel system but a little more grain will compensate for that.
BIAB doesn't have to be no-sparge. I mash, squeeze, sparge and squeeze again and average 91% efficiency.
LittleRiver
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I studied the info on all the options, and looked at some 3 & 2 vessel systems owned by friends. In the end the elegant simplicity of BIAB appealed to me, so that's the way I went.
My brewing friends (with 3 & 2 vessel systems) said my efficiency would suck, and it did until I bought a good grain mill and set it to .025. Now my conversion efficiency numbers are better than theirs.
People say the bag is a pain to clean, but that's just not true. I shake the grains off, wash it off in the sink, and hang it to dry. It couldn't get easier. Since I mash and boil in the same vessel, there's also only one vessel to clean and store.
I don't have stuck sparges, because I don't sparge. I don't have problems with pumps, controllers, etc, because I don't use, need, or want them.
I generally do 5 gal batches. I went with a 15gal kettle, and installed a drain valve (from brewhardware.com). I purposefully did not install a thermometer in the kettle, I use a thermometer/timer with a remote probe. I use a Wilser bag. My mill is the Kegco 3 roller. I wouldn't change any of those decisions.
I find BIAB so easy and efficient (from every aspect of that word) that it's almost like cheating compared to what my friends are doing.
I have no plans to downgrade to a more complicated system.
chickypad
lupulin shift victim
For big brews you can also do BIAB with a sparge, not sure how that would work with one of those contained systems so something to consider. I get similar efficiency numbers for equivalent gravity beers with BIAB compared to my 3 vessel system.
Edit: I type slow.
Edit: I type slow.
JONNYROTTEN
Well-Known Member
If your in a hot climate maybe going electric isn't a concern due to outdoor warm weather brewing aint so bad.
I would get a 10 gallon pot for full volume brews and a propane heat source and a bag...its all you need.
Without checking prices would probably set you back $100- $150...well worth it for all grain...youll get your money back just in not having to buy kits
I would get a 10 gallon pot for full volume brews and a propane heat source and a bag...its all you need.
Without checking prices would probably set you back $100- $150...well worth it for all grain...youll get your money back just in not having to buy kits
This is a tough question and is hotly contested...especially between the BIAB folks and the others. Both methods can make great beer and neither one is more "true" than the other. I brew using a kettle, a cooler with a bag, and I use another cooler as a "HLT" to hold my sparge water while I'm taking the first runnings from the cooler.
I didn't really choose this method, I just latched onto a whole brewing rig from a guy who quit homebrewing when he became the head brewer at a local nano. I've made some upgrades over the last year (from bazooka screen to MIAB, a pump to whirlpool, a much better immersion chiller for example), but the process is still pretty much the same.
If I upgrade, it will be to an electric system and, at this point, most likely a Brew Boss or similar recirculating all in one rig. The main driver is to have less to store and to speed up the brew day.
Someone earlier said to join a local club and see if you can participate in a brew day with one or more members. If you can be around for a BIAB and a more traditional brew day, you can experience the differences and that might help you decide what's best for you.
If you're willing to go all in from the start, I'd seriously consider electric. It's cheaper, more efficient (energy wise), faster (if you go 220v) and you can brew indoors. We have seriously cold winters, so I'm really motivated to go that route.
I didn't really choose this method, I just latched onto a whole brewing rig from a guy who quit homebrewing when he became the head brewer at a local nano. I've made some upgrades over the last year (from bazooka screen to MIAB, a pump to whirlpool, a much better immersion chiller for example), but the process is still pretty much the same.
If I upgrade, it will be to an electric system and, at this point, most likely a Brew Boss or similar recirculating all in one rig. The main driver is to have less to store and to speed up the brew day.
Someone earlier said to join a local club and see if you can participate in a brew day with one or more members. If you can be around for a BIAB and a more traditional brew day, you can experience the differences and that might help you decide what's best for you.
If you're willing to go all in from the start, I'd seriously consider electric. It's cheaper, more efficient (energy wise), faster (if you go 220v) and you can brew indoors. We have seriously cold winters, so I'm really motivated to go that route.
If you're brewing 5-gallon batches and you don't make anything far above 1.065, then I'd say a couple BIAB mashes are a great way to tip your toe into all-grain while you research systems.
Griffin495
Well-Known Member
You've got a 10 gallon pot and an external burner? Contact Wilser and get a custom size bag made for your pot. $32 for the Grand Slam package (BIAB Bag, hop boil bag, dry hop sock, and a ratchet pulley) + $5 s/h and you're doing all grain by next weekend. If you decide BIAB not for you, then you can look into all those other expensive options.
Abyssal
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I throw my ballot in with the BIAB'ers. Especially if you're moving from stovetop. I tried a couple 5 gallon all grain batches with my brother on a turkey fryer and cooler mash tun,but ended up with really bad efficiency numbers.
Later I was doing 1 gallon stovetop batches, then about a year ago and now transitioned into BIAB. On my first BIAB brew my efficiency went from like 35% in the cooler to 75%
I now have a RaspberryPi running CraftBeerPi as my controller, super easy and way less equipment to go that route than a standard PID controller box. That is so I don't have to keep fiddling with the stovetop dial.
As for the bag being a pain to clean out, it only is a pain if you forget to empty your grains during the boil and leave it for a day or two in there! But same issue as cleaning out a mash tun IMO.
Also the three vessel system people are always saying that in single vessel brewing and BIAB the heat is being applied directly to the wort and possibly denaturing some of the enzymes and therefore lose some efficiencies there. Whereas the three vessel rig with heat exchangers your precious wort never touches anything above the temperature of your choosing!
But for me the effort, money, and time to get all the gear set up were super cost prohibitive, as well as learning curve, for getting into a three vessel system. As opposed to BIAB all you need to do is buy and bag and you're ready to roll!
Sorry for the essay!
Later I was doing 1 gallon stovetop batches, then about a year ago and now transitioned into BIAB. On my first BIAB brew my efficiency went from like 35% in the cooler to 75%
I now have a RaspberryPi running CraftBeerPi as my controller, super easy and way less equipment to go that route than a standard PID controller box. That is so I don't have to keep fiddling with the stovetop dial.
As for the bag being a pain to clean out, it only is a pain if you forget to empty your grains during the boil and leave it for a day or two in there! But same issue as cleaning out a mash tun IMO.
Also the three vessel system people are always saying that in single vessel brewing and BIAB the heat is being applied directly to the wort and possibly denaturing some of the enzymes and therefore lose some efficiencies there. Whereas the three vessel rig with heat exchangers your precious wort never touches anything above the temperature of your choosing!
But for me the effort, money, and time to get all the gear set up were super cost prohibitive, as well as learning curve, for getting into a three vessel system. As opposed to BIAB all you need to do is buy and bag and you're ready to roll!
Sorry for the essay!
Another satisfied BIABer here. It can be a "trial" AG method before you plunk down $$$ for 3-vessel AG gear. Or it can be your long-term brewing method. Point is, it doesn't require much extra gear from what you're using for extract.
CSB: I have a brewer friend, one with a lot more experience than I have. He was a dyed-in-the-wool 3-vessel brewer. About 5 years ago, when I made the switch from extract to BIAB, he poked a lot of fun at me about BIAB. But in the last year or so he has switched to BIAB himself, after he tried it and found out how simple it is.
CSB: I have a brewer friend, one with a lot more experience than I have. He was a dyed-in-the-wool 3-vessel brewer. About 5 years ago, when I made the switch from extract to BIAB, he poked a lot of fun at me about BIAB. But in the last year or so he has switched to BIAB himself, after he tried it and found out how simple it is.
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